View Full Version : Does the AI cheat?
BLOODUK2
14-11-2006, 11:11
MULTIPLAYER -
The ai developes ALOT faster than any player can and the island seems to be full of buildings and units that don't fit the ai's possible cash flow, where are they getting all the money from?
Sure you could say the queen, but the queen doesnt give the player a constant cash flow
I'm not the only one that has seen this
I stated in another thread that i observed AI having unlimited amount of cash
.
She doesn't give you aid that often... she says "No," you know?
Whatever your story reasons may be... the AI has a constant flow of $$ unrelated to its trade and city... it's too bad really, since bankruptcy is a fundamental part of the game. :bash:
Captain Hawk
14-11-2006, 11:24
Ya for sure this question is truely asked, by myself.. I'm trying to repeat the AI steps but I can't.
In Anno1602, when the AI discover a new setelment he builds momently and instantly a warehouse with dirt roads, i was astonished of this steps.. it is realy unfair :confused:
Yes, it is true: The AI cheats. :rolleyes:
But "solely" by encreasing money and building materials...
BLOODUK2
14-11-2006, 11:38
But "solely" by encreasing money and building materials...
Which ofcause has a massive outcome on the future gameplay in an mp match , i once saw a tornado rip through a city.... Did i see him go bust NO , did i see him suffer from angry mobs NO
I might add that the most powerfull lodge activity, the revolutionary, doesnt have any effect on the AI =[. When i succesfully planted one into AI town center nothing happened, no fires in the city, nothing. When the AI plants one ine my town center though it always screws up my town quite badly and nothing helps. I tried to place military around the town, lowered taxes to 0, had all need filled and still people went mad. I mean WTF is this.
It's sad is what it is. I was initially very enthused about this game. BUt the more I play it, the more disappointing the "AI" becomes. It makes the game unplayable as a game- it is an exercise in overcoming obscure gamerules- you play by one set the AI plays by... well, no rules really. :scratch:
I doubt something like this would ever change due to patching. They bragged about the AI, but it is not a good thing to brag about simply unleashing it without it being constrained by any set of operating rules other than building buildings at certain times and ordering up troops without paying for any of it! :angry:
Angryminer
14-11-2006, 16:47
The AI does have to follow some rules.
It can access additional funds and recieves increased building materials. But that's it. That means you can still starve out an AI, f.e. by blocking it's main harbour. It's troops are not superior and it's population is also subject to revolutions.
Over at the Knights of Honor community we have the exact opposite problem: The Ai doesn't cheat (at all) and thus the game is a lot too easy. In 1602 the Ai didn't cheat and the game was a lot too easy. It's just nearly impossible to create a competitive AI for such a complex game within a reasonable frame of time (i.e. below several years development time only for the AI).
In a game called Galactic Civilizations II the AI is absolutely great. It comes up with strategies, uses your weaknesses and builds a good economy. But still it gets butchered by 30% of all players. Humans are just way superior to current AIs.
Surely the solution isn't optimal, but if you want a challange you need to allow the AI to cheat.
Angryminer
AI is tough to program. The best AI Programmer I know is Brad Wardell over at Stardock, a company I used to work it.
Most companies CHEAP OUT the AI by allowing it to cheat, I hate this! GalCiv2 is an example of AI done right, it is smart, challenging, and works by the same rules as people.
I am disappointed to hear Related Designs gimped out and went with a cheating AI. Lame. Bad AI is just laziness in programming, nothing more.
Angryminer
14-11-2006, 17:24
Kobra: The GalCiv2 AI also cheats. But only at high skill levels, similar to the 1701 AI.
The 1701 AI gets additional money and building materials, the GalCiv2 AI gets increased taxes. Where's the difference?
The GalCiv2 AI is great, but (normal) AIs just can't compete with humans.
Angryminer
Starving out the AI can be tough, too, at the least, extremely time consuming. They stockpile everything...
shrekiejai
14-11-2006, 23:39
The AI does have to follow some rules.
It can access additional funds and recieves increased building materials. But that's it.
That's quite a major part of the game? Funds and building material are basically the only two constraints in the game. Having additional of both is a significant advantage.
Especially since players cannot get additional building material even if they resorted to cheating.. there isn't a cheat to replenish wood/bricks
Having a smarter AI does not equate to having a cheating AI.
That is like saying a smart player is one that cheats!
Well with little luck you can win against hard AI despite it having tons of money ( thus big army and navy ) but you need abit of luck ( either succesful lodge activity, AI is warring another AI, or it simply does not want your islands ). If the hard AI gets onto you at the beginning you are screwed coz it will simply send more and more units untill you will bankrupt ( it is only at the early stages of the game though ) and will send squadrons of ships
at ya ( and queens reinforcements wont help against several warships ).
Well, at least it is different from other games like Company of Heroes where harder AI means faster construction time, THIS is cheating :rolleye:
They DO have faster construction time in this game. They don't ever have to wait for $$ like the human player so they construct almost everything faster. And resources? They have unlimited $$ so they can buy ALL their resources as imports from the free trader... this amounts to MUCH faster construction time for everything!
Dreamed is right, money is the only thing that limits you in this game. If you have money you can have everything else in a flash. I am kinda disappointed with the AI to be honest.
I dont like the thing that easy and normal AI will never advance further than the human player. Hard AI and limitless cash is annoying also as they build up military right away and declare war is you screw something up.
Maybe they should make it so that the queen gives them credit alittle more often than to the human player or something.
Im playing mostly against hard AI because its the only thing that gives a challenge but i had a few games lost because of one little screw up or suddenly AI got angry over 2 islands within like 1 minute ( and instantly declared war ). Another thing about hard AI is that they never war eachother, at least i never saw them warring eachother. They do make alliances very early in the game sometimes. Once Igor made an alliance with Castelli after roughly 30 minutes of gameplay and i was like wtf, especially that Emilio made an outpost on an island occupied by Igor before the alliance so i was hoping that they will war eachother eventually. I mean the hard AI is supposed to be really competitive for the player but i was hoping that they will compete with eachother too.
/whine mode off lol !
No really i love this game, its just one thing i cant stand is cheating, i do realize that it is the AI and i dont mind it cheating alittle bit to make it challenging but its getting a tad over the top sometimes.
shrekiejai
16-11-2006, 04:18
There is usually an issue with the AI when the players ain't saying it is intelligent.
There is even more problems when the players say it cheats.
What would be interesting would be to have a difficulty setting which allows the players to use the same rules as the AI
(Call it Sandbox or something).
AD 1701 is a great game, especially multiplayer.
Single player AI is a bit of a let down.
People's Republic of China
16-11-2006, 05:37
I took out a two star without difficulty. Though he did have a largish army.
the answer is to out cheat the AI
Im coming out with a few tips to make a life agaisnt hard AI easier =] Ill post some later. Once you get to know how to trick it ( without using any cheats ofcourse ) its not that hard as it may seem.
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