nVidia problems and CPU temperature

[bizpro]

I don't know it if belongs here; the mods can move the post wherever they deem fit.

For starters, I do not claim to be versed in building computers, BUT, I can ask questions and quote the answers. I did this after reading comments such as "my dual GPU runs only with 1/2 of the advertised memory".

I asked the tech who build my system what could cause a high-end nVidea card to run slow or an SLI card to use only 1/2 of tis memory.
His response:
Currently there are only very few SLI-ready mainboards. Installing two graphic cards on the wrong board is a waste of money, they won't work propperly.
These cards need to be connected differently than older cards. He reported that he had to fix the computers of several people who self installed and every one had the connections wrong, either one connector missing or plugged in wrong. (Apprently eveyone of the 4 techs wanted to get their hands on the system but, after looking at the chore at hand they bowed out since, according to them, it was very tricky so they let the only one who had done it before put it together with them onlooking.)
SLI cards need the SLI connector.
Minimum processor recommended with high-end cards is an E6600, slower ones do not allow the system to perfomr as it should.
When asked about CPU cooling issues I was advised that core duo will not self destruct. If the heat builds up they slow down, This would explain that some players experience a slow down after some time of gaming.
On overclocking CPU or GPU "If you do it your warranty will be void."


The above will not cure the current poor showing with top-end cards but, one would hope that the issue will be addressed, hopefully sooner than later.

On a side note, I almost got a hernia trying to lift the beast.

[Fbzn]

When you use 2*7900GTX in SLI (2*512MB), your whole system acts like a "single card" with 512MB... not 1GB...

It's inherent to SLI. :wink:

Each card needs a copy of the scene to render: GPUs need to work together...but on same datas... so you will find a copy of each datas in each card (in reality it's a bit complex): so 2 copies of 512 MB are not one 1 "dedicated" GB...:wink:

(French article, beginning of SLI:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/536-3/nvidia-sli-asustek-a8n-sli.html)

[bizpro]

Isn't it that the two GPUs share the workload by either one processing one part of the picture and the other one the other part in a horizontal division or one processing even numbered frames while the other processes odd numbered frames?
Not using an SLI mainboard but one that uses an on-board chipset comes with a huge performance penalty. (again, just quoting:huh:)
P.S. My French is not good enough to read that article.

[Rnett]

Sounds like a gimmick to me. A very expensive one at that.:puke::rolleye:

[Dobber]

It is something I will probably never be having to worry with since I will never be able to afford a system like that! :xmas_sad:

[bizpro]

It is something I will probably never be having to worry with since I will never be able to afford a system like that! :xmas_sad:
So you don't plan on getting 1804 AD:wink:
By then 8800GTX SLI will probably be too weak on the chest as well. Maybe an 10nnn Quad SLI might be required for optimum performance:rofl:

@Rnett: not really a gimmick. The gaming industry is driving the CPU and GPU manufacturers, not the other way around (Maybe nVidia holds shares in Sierra et al to drive itself- who knows?). To use MSOffice a single 1.8 celeron would be more than adequate. So, if you need the graphic power, you have to go SLI since the on-board chips don't cut it. Also, what's the use of having a fast GPU if the mainboard becomes the bottleneck and slows down the computer. I read a good review. According to it the GPU are momentarely ahead of CPU power and none of the existing games can overtax the Bentley of GPUs, but even an extreme E6800 is not fast enough and becomes the shakle.

[Dobber]

So you don't plan on getting 1804 AD:wink:
By then 8800GTX SLI will probably be too weak on the chest as well. Maybe an 10nnn Quad SLI might be required for optimum performance:rofl:

Well I don't think there will be a 1804, maybe a 1404 or a 1800! :go:

Seems someone forgot the progression of the numbers! :biggrin:

[bizpro]

Seems someone forgot the progression of the numbers! :biggrin:
I sit corrected.:bowdown:

[Fbzn]

Not using an SLI mainboard but one that uses an on-board chipset comes with a huge performance penalty. (again, just quoting:huh:)


There are 2 things:

1) SLI deals with 512 MB and not 1GB (what i've explained with 2 cards of 512MB) , this is normal.

2) Lack of performance with Anno and SLI... surely linked to Nvidia drivers. Remember that even with a single Nvidia Card (not SLI), people experience low FPS, so i think that the issue is "somewhere else", drivers or Game Code...or both...:biggrin:


But it would be interesting to have both points of view, one from Anno Developper, one from Nvidia developper. :scratch:


"-Not my fault, it's this guy!
- No he is a liar, it's his fault ! "

:rofl:




--
Well I don't think there will be a 1804, maybe a 1404 or a 1800! :go:

Seems someone forgot the progression of the numbers! :biggrin:

I'm waiting Anno 1998...:cool:

[bizpro]

Tidbit found
NVIDIA insists that they have tested quite a few of the top 100 games to ensure that there aren’t any issues with SLI mode and it does seem that they’ve done a good job with their driver. If the driver hasn’t been profiled with a game, it will default to single-GPU mode to avoid any rendering issues, but the user can always force SLI mode if they wish.

That should answer the question why nnnnxGX2 card users have performance problems in 1701 but not in other games.

ALSO, since I read someone having two different cards (identical number card but different makes) here's the gurus' opinion:
NVIDIA doesn't support SLI on two different models or from different vendors. SLI supports configurations with the same model (i.e. 6800 Ultra) from the same vendor (Vendor XYZ).

[Fbzn]

Yes.

But it's sure you need identical cards, not only "GPU speaking" but also for its specifications: speed, memory frequency and latencies.

That's why it's better to buy exactly same models (same brand, same model).

[Dobber]

I'm waiting Anno 1998...:cool:


How about Anno 2097? Colonizing distant planets, interacting with strange beings, i.e. terran, zerg and protoss ala Starcraft! :biggrin:

[drkohler]

Isn't it that the two GPUs share the workload by either one processing one part of the picture and the other one the other part in a horizontal division or one processing even numbered frames while the other processes odd numbered frames?
That's one way of dividing the workload onto two processors. Another way would be to divide the scene into an upper and lower half, each processor
taking one of the half-screens to render.
In either case, both processors have to access the same shader software, the same scene and the same graphics primitives. If the 1G memory on your 7950X card were linear memory, one processor would have to wait until the other processor finished reading/writing into memory - it's like Christopher Lambert in Highlander, there can only be one (processor reading/writing to a specific memory location). This would essentially kill any performance and would be slower than a single GPU card. Therefore each GPU accesses its own 512Mbyte memory, but both memories contain the same elements. Therefore your 1G card (as the marketing folks slyly wrote on the box) is essentially a 512M card with two GPUs.

[bizpro]

That's one way of dividing the workload onto two processors. Another way would be to divide the scene into an upper and lower half, each processor taking one of the half-screens to render.
That's what I called one part each, horizontally divided:biggrin:

Other than that, a 7950GX2 is currently $60 cheaper than a GTX8800 and performs about the same, so you can say that with twin cards you get about 50 - 70% increase in performance. That's the bottom line, no matter what the computer "sees". So why get just one card - very simple, you can add antother one later and that combination will be about as good as the next card (9nnn?) and, again cheaper. Even the tests done with the 7950GX2, and ATI CF (forgot the number) and a 8800GTX and a 8800GTX SLI show more or less similar results. Alas, the extreme 6800 does not have enough horsepower to match the 8800SLI's perfomance.

I upgrade regularly with my old machine getting cascaded into the office and the replaced one being donated to the local highschool where, probably, the lab teacher will keep the donated P4 2.8 with the 128MB GPU in his office and taking his old one into the lab. At least that's what happened last time. I have to admit, this is the first time I really went overboard with the GPU:st_claus:

[drkohler]

That's what I called one part each, horizontally divided:biggrin:

Other than that, a 7950GX2 is currently $60 cheaper than a GTX8800 and performs about the same, so you can say that with twin cards you get about 50 - 70% increase in performance. That's the bottom line, no matter what the computer "sees". So why get just one card - very simple, you can add antother one later and that combination will be about as good as the next card (9nnn?) and, again cheaper. Even the tests done with the 7950GX2, and ATI CF (forgot the number) and a 8800GTX and a 8800GTX SLI show more or less similar results. Alas, the extreme 6800 does not have enough horsepower to match the 8800SLI's perfomance.
Well the problem is always the same when looking at CPUs and GPUs. Somebody has to calculate what to draw and somebody has to actually do the drawing. With today's ever increasing game complexity, either the CPU will say "enough.. I can't do more.." or the GPU will say "enough... I can't draw all the stuff you want..". In the case of the 8800xy GPUs, you won't hear it complain, it can do much more than what it is asked to draw, it is the CPU that complains (particularly with Anno1701, which is heavily loading the CPU(s)). This is the reason that cards like 7950xy and 1950xy perform at the same level - on reasonable resolutions, they have just enough power to sustain the CPU(s) greed in our game. Once you go up to and over 1920*1200, it's kiss of death for older GPU cards.

[bizpro]

I'm happy with 1680*1050 on my 2216W.:biggrin: Anything more and I would need binoculars to read what's up.

Once you go up to and over 1920*1200, it's kiss of death for older GPU cards.

That's what makes me suspicious that ATI and nVidia hold shares in game developping cmpanies.

[Invoke_Shadows]

First off here a few tips for you all who want your games to run bettor.

Almost all currently shipping games are single-threaded. But the 3DMark05 CPU tests apparently break some tasks into separate threads, because the dual-core Intel CPUs tend to outperform their single-core siblings in the 3DMark CPU tests. 3DMark05 tends to be forward-looking, so this is a hint of what could happen if game developers start using multithreading in their games. Given that the Xbox 360 will have multiple CPUs with more than one core, and the Cell processor used in the Playstation 3 has many cores, multithreading will likely become common practice in future games.

Note that the Dell system barely keeps up with the much slower Intel reference system in the 3DMark05 CPU test, while the Velocity Micro DCX system scales very nicely. Note also how the Opteron, running at a "measly" 2.2GHz, only trails the 4GHz DCX by a small margin.

So unless your game uses multithreading which most don't a dual-core system won't make your game run any faster in fact it can make it run slower at times.

Now here are a few things you all need to do about heat issues and video cards. One when you buy a new card get rid of the stock fan it's crap. That's why your card still over heats also get some Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound get a good fan, For your processor get a new fan as well one with a copper heatsink is best, Both of these things will help you avoid slow downs.

Get the new round hd cables and get some ties so they don't just go everywhere in your pc, The older cables can cause heat build up specially if you have you cables all over the place.

Make sure you clean out your pc once to twice a mouth dust build up will cause heat issues

Get a HD cooler if you need one the more HD's you have the more heat they generate which can cause slow downs.

Get heat spreaders for memory, get at least 5 fans and place them in your pc in right way and you can reduce heat as well.

SLI there are plenty of good SLI ready MB out now whoever told you that crap is full of it. The big thing SLI is getting a power supply that can handle it, you need at least 600w or more if have less your cards will reduce the graphic settings automatically and you cards will run slower.

If you can afford it go with a water cooling system. I personally have no slow down in any pc games, But i also mod the hell out my pc.

Last but not least get gaming memory, The memory that most people buy is crap and memory comes with most pc's you want memory with low Latency 2-3-3-6 around that is good. You can go a bit higher but that will be pushing it. corsair makes some good memory.

Last but not least I don't see dual-core ever getting really bettor now that they have Quad-Core out. And both Quad-Core and Dual-Core systems where built more for business then gamers.

Anyways above tips will help you, It's up to you to do it or not.

[bizpro]

Last but not least I don't see dual-core ever getting really bettor now that they have Quad-Core out. And both Quad-Core and Dual-Core systems where built more for business then gamers.

Well, according to the latest perfomance tests done on 1701, sorry, all in German, the Core Duo 6300 outperformed the fastst AMD chip. So, if you want troubles with 1701 you need to install an AMD chip and a nVidia GPU.
BTW, a good RAM kit comes with coolers:biggrin:

[Rnett]

So, if you want troubles with 1701 you need to install an AMD chip and a nVidia GPU.
:biggrin:

Strange, I have both and have had little problems at all...:tongue3: