People are blind....

[Richard]

People are blind and don't know what they want:sad: :bash:
Well if you have watched the news lately you will see what's going on in South America. People are voting into power not just left wing presidents, but extreme left ones.

First is Chaves and Venezuela. Either he cheated or the people there don't know what communism really is....
He just nationalised Venezuela's electrical and telecommunications companies, later calling "Socialism or death", doing exactly the same thing Fidel Castro did when he came to power. He has been trying to change the constitution in order to make it possible for presidens to be elected as many times as they want instead of just 2 terms. In other words, making his possition permanent, and he will probably do it now during his second term.

2nd is Daniel Ortega and Nicaragua.
Yes, the people elected the same guy that was involved with the sardinistas and and all the havoc during the 70's and 80's which still affects the country today as they left the economy destroyed. Didn't they learn? Or did they forgot what this dictator did some 20 years ago. So that's another lefty in power.

Next is the Evo Morales, Bolivia.
He is doing what Chaves did in his first term, slowly nationalising some private companies, and opening relations with Fidel, Chaves and other extreme leftist. He will try to do the same thing Chaves is doing in the next couple of years.

Alan Garcia and Peru.
This corrupt guy left the country with hyperinflation, isolated from the international financial community, with negative reserves of US$900 million, continuous subversive activities by the Shining Path, great increase in poverty levels and an electric train multi-million investment in Lima that was never finish. And who knows how much money he stole from the national bank.

And apart from this guys, there is Argentina, Ecuador, Chile ( thu it seems like a moderate left ) Brazil....

So I see a complete left wing latin america in some 15-20 years. Communism is slowly rising itself back. I hope that Latin America doesn't become a power house for Communism. People are blind if they think the commies are going to end poverty, At the begining stages Communism seems like the best thing in the world, Goverment gives land to the poor, but once they have complete control the tight up the loop and take everthing away from the people, starting with free expresion. But Like Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Anyways, Just my little meaningless rant on communism and their rise in Latin america:angry: :bash:
Feel free to discuss what you think.

[Elvain]

I don't think it's blindness. It's about a fact that in certain social situation people prefere political leftism. The worse the situation is, the more extremist the government is (not only in democracies)

I personaly think that to get to certain level of society it is necessary to have autoritative ruler who defines rules and then pluralism can take part. Once there wil be social stability people will ask for something better than autoritative regime (which can easily take everything what is theirs)

It's natural. In times of instability people want strong authority, when they have no hope that they can influence anything, they ask for strong state to ensure their material existence. Once their material existence is satisfying, they ask for more - some rights, respect and stability of property which doesn't really work in extreme leftist systems

[Richard]

I see what you mean. It is true, the other presidents that have come to power have only brought corruption. It is like my grandpa usually says, the others come to power and steal the timber from the houses, the people get fed up. Then the communism come and offer heaven to the poor, get elected, then steal the nails.:rofl:

I can understand for the must part except for Nicaragua and Peru, where both of those guys did pretty bad things some 20 years ago. They where corrupt dictators and left the countries they ruled in disarray and now they were elected back to power....

[Elvain]

I can understand for the must part except for Nicaragua and Peru, where both of those guys did pretty bad things some 20 years ago. They where corrupt dictators and left the countries they ruled in disarray and now they were elected back to power....
I understad.
But people do forget. They like to forget.
Look, in my country, 16 years after the Velvet revolution against communism (in 2005/2006) completely unreformed communist party had support of almost 20% of people who wanted to vote.
And "our" czech communist party is the only unreformed in former "soviet Europe"! People forgot that they had to live doubble lives, at school their children couldn't say many things they heard at home because they(their parents) could be arrested, yes, people were taught to lie or at least cover the truth here!, there was lack of food supply, corruption, no freedom.
But there was stability. Everyone knew that if he doesn't speak loud against The Party and goes to work (that doesn't mean work there!) and doesn't care of anyone else, he won't lose his job. Fact is that rules were clear.
When many of them lost their jobs (where many of them didn't ever produce anything but got their wages) and couldn't find new, they realized their situation is worse than it was. They thought that the guilt is on "the state" and those who want to make their lives better. The guilt was on the people who wanted their lives to be changed, but didn't want to change. Many old people "worked for socialism" all their lives (40 years) and once they were to get some profit (situation of seniors was quite good here - comparatively better than today) they lost "everything" - nothing was sure.
I understand that somepeople wanted it back because those things started to be more important than if you can speak truth, teach your children not to lie, buy "whatever you want" if you worked hard and earned money, travel all around the world and see diferent cultures, that you have Freedom - when you have no job and can't find any (because you have just basic school) and your children want this and that and you can't give it to them, of course you wouldn't care for such things.

If a guy who did terrible things 20 years ago promisses desperate people to give them jobs and security, they would "try him out" because anything is better than starving. They just try him once and then it could be late and everything may become even worse, but he was legaly elected.
it's problem of democracy. No system is perfect

[catt]

Elvain, it's exactly the same situation in East Germany (although our very far left wing party is different now).

People have lived in security all their lives. They knew what they were not allowed to do and as long as you kept to those unwritten rules you never had to fear for your future. It's not that you ever had the chance to become rich but you never had to worry about not being able to pay for your rent or food or the energy you used. Quite a few people here want to have the old system back.

It seems as if they only remember the good things and forget about the bad things. I wish they'd just have to live one Winter heating with wood and coal, censored news, a constant lack of goods.

Bit it was an easy world. Things were clear and because they lacked so many things they also stuck together, there was more camaraderie and less jealousy. Today it only matters what car you drive. Back then you had to wait 15 years anyways to get a car.

Today we are always told that we can be everything and buy everything, we just have to try hard enough. But that's a lie, there are so many people out there who never really get anywhere although they do nothing different than people who are successful. We are measured by the things we can afford. And the more money you have to spend the more you are worth as a person.

A lot of people fail to realize that the end of communism was also an economic one. It just doesn't work, so many people would not have protested had they not lived with more and more shortcomings.

But in the end, freedom of speech is nothing worth if you struggle to make a living.

[Richard]

Hmm. Iranian President visited Venezuela and Nicaragua in the past couple of days. The Us is gonna have some very near by enemies to deal with.:nono:

[FrankishHero]

Hmm. Iranian President visited Venezuela and Nicaragua in the past couple of days. The Us is gonna have some very near by enemies to deal with.:nono:

And rightly so. The US's 'foreign policy' is the worst farce in the history of mankind. If you bomb two entire countries (Iraq and Afghanistan) to ruin, when there is no clear reason to do so (no mass destruction weapons, Osama Bin Laden was NOT found in Afghanistan), then that would lead you to make enemies.

I for one applaud growing left-wing sentiments in the world. Yes, I think Chavez is a slimeball and should not be in power, but the signal South America is giving off is very clear: Bush's/the US's version of the world is endangering all of us and something has to change.

[Richard]

Good job Venezuela, You just signed your death sentence....
Chavez has the authority to enact sweeping measures by decree.
They will soon know what Communism really is. I give it 3-4 years until all freedom are taken away and the lack of everything comes in its place.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16903238/

And Castro appeared in another video.

[FrankishHero]

Richard, you show that polarized USA way of looking at Communism.

The USA has, ever since Stalin came to power, consistently confused Communism with Stalinism.

[Richard]

Richard, you show that polarized USA way of looking at Communism.

The USA has, ever since Stalin came to power, consistently confused Communism with Stalinism.
No, I just know what I'm talkign about because I lived it. Maybe you didn't, But I did for the first 13 years of my life. I saw many things. Hell my Grandpa was 6 years in Jail for speaking against Castro's "socialism" in the 60's, he has his many stories, every night there would be 5 or 6 executions just a few meters from his cell....

Communism is Communism, No liberties, no way to improve your life. Goverment spends every penny(medicine,food,and money) in foreign politics trying to make ignorant people think it is the best damn thing in the world, while the population back home don't have an aspirin for a headache.

[FrankishHero]

Castro is AGAIN something DIFFERENT from Communism. Communism, by which I mean the ideas put forward by Marx and Engels, is government in it's purest form.

[Richard]

We all know that communism accoring to Marx can not, And will not work because the state can not disapear. If it does the country goes to hell in anarchy.

Also,everyone can't be equal, because not everyone acts/lives the same way. Some people work harder than others, Some people take advantage of things offered to them(for example the countles scholarships to go to college) better than others.

So "social classes" will always exist as long as there is the hard worker and the lazy, The intelligent(the ones that take advantage of opportunities) and the not so "intelligent". Is a crude truth, but is the truth.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a concervative, I'm more of a liberal person, but usually balanced btw the 2 sides of the spectrum. Many of Marx and Engels' ideas are good, like the abolition of child labor, the free social services,ect. But others sound good and in theory they are, but they fail when put into practice because of human flaws that can not be changed.

[wkw427]

Well in theory, part of comunism would work. Everyone worlks 14 hours a day and they also get a 2lb steak for dinner. Pretty fair, yes? But then again every type of government ****s in one way or another. They just shift because they say the current govermnent ****s, let's chance.Later they say that ****s and the old one was better. Keeps goind in a endless circle, untill every human mind unites into one.

Untill then, nothing is perfect. Except Mars. Can't beat Mars!