The Papacy

[Dobber]

You could try that, then take it back away and see if you get asked if you would like to restore the Papacy

[Largefry07]

Don't forget to reduce the defences:go:

[Dobber]

Don't forget to reduce the defences:go:

Thanks Largefry, I forgot to mention that didn't I!

[Syagrius]

Is the request for restoring papacy is random? Because when I took Rome I was never asked if I wanted to restore papacy.

I gave Rome to Croatia (which is one of my buddies) and it seems it is not restoring papacy so far..

[Dobber]

Is the request for restoring papacy is random? Because when I took Rome I was never asked if I wanted to restore papacy.

I gave Rome to Croatia (which is one of my buddies) and it seems it is not restoring papacy so far..

I am thinking that the option to restore the Papacy as a principality in the game is gone. That the institution of the Papacy has been separated from the principality with the implementation of the patch.
At least the experience I have had since the patch seems to suggest that. The Papacy was eliminated in my game but the Papal order was still functionoing.

[Syagrius]

At least the experience I have had since the patch seems to suggest that. The Papacy was eliminated in my game but the Papal order was still functionoing.
Not in my game: it seems there is no pope at all (there is no call for crusades etc...)

[Dobber]

He was not calling for Crusades in my game either, but every time he died my Cleric got nabbed fo Pope. As long as I let him sit in my court I could call for a Grusade with one of my Marshall's, but he was not calling for any otherwise. Maybe because ther was no Papal principality in the game for him to base relations with the other nations. I am currently playing another game as a different nation and will take out the Papacy later, when I am stronger and see if I still experience the same.

[Largefry07]

Could the lack of crusades be because that the crusades funding was from the Papal state and not the papal church?

[Dobber]

Well that may be, but with the Pope in my court I ask for and get the Crusade, Army is full of crusader units. If that is the case, where did the pope get the funding for the Crusade I asked for, when there is no Papal State?

[Largefry07]

Perhaps the funding would be in piety and not money. You must pay 1000 piety to call a crusade.

[Victus Succor]

OK, reading this thread as my next game is in the high period playing as Germany. I'm kinda confused? Isn't having your cleric the pope a good thing? When he is in your court, don't you get new options with him? Why would he be taken away? Where does he go? If he is gone, how can you tell him to excommunicate others or call crusades?

Likewise, if you attack the papacy, doesn't that make your relationship with the pope worsen? Someone help my confusion.:scratch:

[Angryminer]

Having the pope at your court is a two-sided sword. On the one side you can call for crusades, which is handy when you are e.g. at war with a muslin nation.
However, there is a high likelyhood of being excommunicated for demanding such a thing from the pope, which causes a great drop in income and bad relations.
So instead of gambling with the pope's actions most players just break relations with the pope to clear the slot in the royal court, which effectively means you lost a highly experienced cleric for no gain at all.

About your second question: I'm currently asking myself wethr anyone ever tried to attack the papacy while having the pope at your court. I wonder what happens then... :smile:

Angryminer

[Dobber]

I might have to try that, Angryminer! I have recently been playing a game as Normandy(reunited England) and the last 4 Popes have come from my kingdom(eventhough I have not educated a one of them). I will load up my savegame and await my cleric to be appointed Pope, then make war with the Papacy to see what happens!

[Angryminer]

I sign every and each of my posts and I'm still mistaken for Kuno. I think I have to take more drastic measures...

Angryminer

( :wink: )

[NaVatar]

What are you implying Kuno?


Ontopic
Really don't got anything to say.
(Couldn't resist the obvious joke on Angry's expense :biggrin:)

[Victus Succor]

But I think the real challenge and the real benefit would be to learn how to manage and handle the pope, so that he is an asset and not a liability.

You mentioned what happens when you call crusades? How about when you try to excommunicate a catholic nation. Same prognosis? Even if you could excommunicate without being excommunicated yourself, he'd be worth it.

Has anyone tried to figure out why the pope excommunicates you? Is it bad relations with the papacy. Or is it that you called a crusade on a nation that has good relations with the papacy?

What gives?

[Angryminer]

Excommunications are even less likely to succeed than crusades.
When you have the pope you usually have one shot to make him do something. Seldomly he will obey and call for a crusade or excommunicate someone. In almost all cases he cuts relations and about each third time he excommunicates you.
I only use the pope when my king is venerable so in case I get excommunicated I get back into the church when my king dies, which should be rather soon. That way it can actually be worth the risk.

The pope doesn't really have "relations". He sums up pros versus cons and makes a decision based on that. For example when he calls for a crusade he says "It's a muslim nation, that's bad. It's at war with two catholic nations, that's two bads. It owns a catholic province, that's also bad. I agree to a crusade". Some bad points are worse than others, but how exactly the factors are weighted depends on the mod you use.

Angryminer

[Dobber]

I sign every and each of my posts and I'm still mistaken for Kuno. I think I have to take more drastic measures...

Angryminer

( :wink: )


Sorry Angryminer! :embarras: I guess I was used to Kuno being more active in the KoH forum lately! And you don't usually mispell words, sometimes Kuno does, and "whether" was mispelled.
--
If I am not mistaken, you have to be at war with the Catholic nation you want him to excommunicate! And to call for a crusade against a nation, you have to be at war with them also before you can call for the crusade! And you have to pay to call a crusade!

[hunter_HUN]

I thing, the pope is scummy man... if I don't give a marshal for the cruseder, he excomonicate me, then the all kingdoms start war with me. ok, I give a marshal, but it isn't enught... the pope claim a lot of marshal... my best marshal :D
so I conquer the papacy :D is the easyest way:angel: :hello:

[Largefry07]

In my expeirence I find getting excommuicated somewhat hard if you know your boundaries. The Pope is good for a couple of excomms. and he is less likely to excomm if the nation you tell him to excomm is at war with other Catholic nations. Also spread out you excommss (if you decide to keep him around) and he is more likely to forgive you over that peroid of time between excomms. But in the end he is still quite usless. He is a waste of a good clergic and a spot in the royal court.