Office of the Pope issue

[Dobber]

Hello folks, Have any of you played to eliminate the Papacy and the Office of Pope yet?

It appears the Pope and the Papacy have been entirely separated and the office of Pope does not disappear with the elimination of the kingdom of the Papacy. Changes strategy of gameplay for a lot of us that like to eliminate the Pope.

I continued my Sicily game after gaining kingdom advantage win. I concentrated on wiping out all the Catholic nations, to the point only Rome and myself were left(I converted Sicily to Catholicism very early in the game). And yes I said Rome, I don't know at which point there was no kingdom Papacy, it was empire Rome. But it started out as the Papacy as a one province kingdom(Rome) and was a one province kingdom for the longest of time. Late in the game, I noticed it was a two province kingdom consisting of Rome and Napoli and was named Rome.The Pope had sat in my court almost the entire game and was sitting in my court when I declared war and attacked Rome, I conquered the 5 provinces Rome had(they had taken three in Africa), completely eliminating them, and the Pope was still sitting in my court. All Catholic nations were gone but me and the Pope was still a part of the game. A little bit later while I was conquering Zenata, the Pope excommunicated me, then when my king died the Pope accepted me back in the church. Twice the Pope was elected from somewhere, I don't know from where, with no other Catholics on board. One of the times it was Martin I, that was elected.

[orpheus]

I have questions regaridng this too.

How do ou get un-excommunicated if the papacy and the pope are split? Giving gifts to the Papacy does not affect your religious standing, so how, other than your king dying, can you get back in the church?

[Elvain]

I will try to eliminate the papacy.

This sounds really weird, I never experienced this.

There are diferent possible strategies: to eliminate all catholics but you, all catholics (if you're not catholic) leaving the Papacy as the last one.

Yet I didn't find enough courage to conquer Rome and make entire catholic world hate me, but I will try in some side-save. I wonder how long will it take me to collapse, if the game won't react this strange way

[mammix]

Once, Venice qonquered whole Papacy, so I took Rome :D
and immiediately an event appeared, if i wanted to create Papacy. i clicked YES and my celric became pope... so, i think, that when Papacy is destroyed, pope does not exists.

[kevcole33]

when playing as suzdal i entered a royal wedding with the papacy. their king died and i claimed their land, which wiped them out completely. after this 5 or 6 nations (all catholic) declared war on me and i was basically screwed.

i would say leave the papacy alone.

[Lord_Nick]

I suggest that instead of giving gold to the Papacy through the regular method, you click on the Piety Icon and then the little gold bag which allows you do make a donation of Gold & Piety that will raise your standing with all Catholic kingdoms.

You get much more "bang for your buck" with this method, assuming you can afford it.

[Dobber]

Once, Venice qonquered whole Papacy, so I took Rome :D
and immiediately an event appeared, if i wanted to create Papacy. i clicked YES and my celric became pope... so, i think, that when Papacy is destroyed, pope does not exists.
That has always been so before the patch, but I am not so sure after the patch! As I stated earlier, the Papacy is gone, there are no Catholic nations other than myself(nor any Catholic provinces under rule of other religion nation), but the Pope still exists.

In the following screenshots, all the purple is my kingdom of Sicily, and all the rest of the map to the east that is not shown also belongs to me. You will notice some of the purple is striped, those provinces are former Muslim Fatamid provinces(I have just had handed to me by my Spy Marshall King), that I was in the process of converting to Catholicism. Take notice of the cleric on the very right of the Knight's bar, the last screenshot is after that cleric was appointed Pope. You will notice the Crusader knight to his left, showing I used the ability to call a Crusade. And also notice when I chose the excommunicate Catholic kingdom option of the Pope, there are no Catholic kingdoms listed to excommunicate.


Southeast
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6188/religionchartsely8.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=religionchartsely8.jpg)

Northeast
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/865/religionchartnetg2.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=religionchartnetg2.jpg)

Center east
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6392/religionchartcekn7.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=religionchartcekn7.jpg)

My Pope
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9273/popeer4.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=popeer4.jpg)

[Borsook]

I don't think the existence of the Pope should be tied to the existence of the Papal state. The pope (if he died/was imprisoned could be a new one) could live in exile and still excommunicate the player. It is impossible for any state to conquer whole Europe and control all it's citizens so well that nobody would support the papacy wherever should it be located. So it's good that the pope is separated from the state. A good thing would be that should the player conquer he would have to give a different province for the new pope (but he could make his cleric a pope)

[Dobber]

I think I will give Rome to one of the remaining nations and see what happens, although none of them are Catholic. Maybe give Rome to a nation I am ready to declare war on and then take Rome back from them restore the Papacy if I get the option, then wipe it out again and see if that eliminates the Pope from the game. The remaining 49 provinces on the map are all going to have to be converted and I really don't want to keep losing experienced clerics to the office of Pope!

[Largefry07]

I think I will give Rome to one of the remaining nations and see what happens, although none of them are Catholic. Maybe give Rome to a nation I am ready to declare war on and then take Rome back from them restore the Papacy if I get the option, then wipe it out again and see if that eliminates the Pope from the game. The remaining 49 provinces on the map are all going to have to be converted and I really don't want to keep losing experienced clerics to the office of Pope!

If you do this and do not suceed in elimating the Pope, there may be a way to keep your cleric. I havn't tried this but I see no reason why it should work some of the time. When the ticker at the bottom says that the pope is getting old, hire a new cleric which will likely be a spy so don't let him govern any provs, educate him to five stars (that should be much of a problem since your book production should be good) and see if he gets elected as pope. By doing you should have a 50% chance of keeping your non-spy cleric. It's not much but it's better than nothing.

[Dobber]

I gave Rome to Crete(naturally I destroyed all defenses and military buildings first), then carried 3 Marshall's to Crete and kepte going on and off the island until relations were in the red(so I wouldn't take a hit on kingdom power when I declared war). I took out the isle of Crete then went and recaptured Rome, but no option t restore the Papacy. So I guess the Papal state exists even though there is no province under Papal control.

And I had noticed that the first Pope in line on your Knight's bar is usually the one that gets picked for Pope, unless the first one is governing and the second one is not! Even a nostar cleric that was at the left of the bar was picked over my 3 star cleric that was over to the right.