Trading Routes

[ray201]

Hi Peeps,

First, thanks for a great game! And especially thanks for the hourly warnings ingame when you've been playing on and on and on! :)

I was wondering if there are any future plans to allow more then 20 trading routes? I've got two large islands for my people, and the rest of the world for production. But i dont have enough trading routes to move all the goods!

Diddn't anyone asume that this might be a problem?

I know i can tweak all the routes, and i've done so. They are all running on 85% and higher.

Any tips?

R

[elsker_soz]

personally I got confused by trading routes and simply increased my ship production and sent them back and forth where they were needed manually sorry if this didn't help.

[Dobber]

I have never used all 20 slots for trade routes, I think the highest number I have used is 13-14 routes. If you have more than one route to the same island for the same goods, you are being redundant with your routes. You can assign more than one ship to a trading route.

[Warmskin]

I actually only see 10 routes possible - am I missing something, or not looking closely enough? I never seem to use more than 6 or 7 anyway and that doesn't seem to be a problem (for me at least). On this subject can someone give me an explanation on exactly what the percentage number below my ship in the right hand side of the trade route screen actually means? Possibly with an example (if this is explained somewhere in the manual, I've missed it). :confused: Thanks much.

[Dobber]

Warmskin, there is a button somewhere that has a couple of curved arrows(one clockwise, one counter clockwise), you click it to go to the second offering of route slots.

And for the percentages, I never pay attention to them. They have to do with the efficiency of your ship on that route but how it is figured and how to tweak the efficiency I have no idea.

[Warmskin]

OK, thanks for the info... :go:

[Xatrix]

I tend to agree with Ray201, this game definitely needs more than 20 tarde routes. Especially towards the end of the game when you start to take over more islands and the population reaches Metropolis (10,000 people). More supplies are needed by that many people! More ships allowed than just 40 would also need to be increased for this to happen too. I think it would make the game alot more interesting!

[Dobber]

Welcome to the forum, Xatrix! :halloha:

[Warmskin]

Warmskin, there is a button somewhere that has a couple of curved arrows(one clockwise, one counter clockwise), you click it to go to the second offering of route slots.

And for the percentages, I never pay attention to them. They have to do with the efficiency of your ship on that route but how it is figured and how to tweak the efficiency I have no idea.

I can't seem to find this button. You said it's 'somewhere'... where exactly would that be? I don't see any 'curved arrows' on the trade route screen. :confused: And thanks.

[Archilochus]

I don't think it appears until needed.. When it does, I've seen it at about the eleven o'clock position on the wheel. (outer rim thingy) :scratch:

[Dobber]

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2983/screenshot0085dk3.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1292/screenshot0086ca5.jpg

[Moryarity]

I tend to agree with Ray201, this game definitely needs more than 20 tarde routes. Especially towards the end of the game when you start to take over more islands and the population reaches Metropolis (10,000 people). More supplies are needed by that many people!


I don´t think, you need that many trading routes for 10.000 people...this game is about planing..maybe there is a way to better organize your trading routes?!? :scratch:


More ships allowed than just 40 would also need to be increased for this to happen too. I think it would make the game alot more interesting!

I think the opposite..if you have plenty of ships and trading routes, there in no need to "organize" your production...and that is the fun of the game..

[DensterNY]

Well, I think the fun in the game is figuring out however you want to meet the needs of your people. I myself experiment with my trading routes to maximize delivery to my people and I find it best to use many ships delivering across a chain of short routes rather than send ships on long journeys.

[Warmskin]

I don't think it appears until needed.. When it does, I've seen it at about the eleven o'clock position on the wheel. (outer rim thingy) :scratch:

Thanks, yes that's right - I just haven't got up to 10 routes yet so it hasn't shown up. And to you too Dobber for the pics, thanks a lot. I think one of the things that confused me was the fact that the Anno 1701 'Site Map' actually says that only 10 routes are available.
Quote: "Up to 10 Trading routes can be created at any one time, each of which can be changed or deleted as required."
Seeing is believing, though.... Thanks to you both.

[Archilochus]

You're welcome

I was sweating bullets in my 10,000 inhab's game when I saw only 10 routes available. Then the flip/flop thing appeared when I setup the 10th route. :biggrin:

[Theodosius]

I find it best to use many ships delivering across a chain of short routes rather than send ships on long journeys.
That's what I did in one game. I made the switch from the long trips to the short carriages between entrepots using the pier on one side and warehouse on the other side. It took a long time to prime the entrepots (my inhabitants were questioning my authority, rioting in the streets and burning down their theaters), but once all the intermediate entrepots are primed, it's a nice system with a lot of stability.
--
I don´t think, you need that many trading routes for 10.000 people...this game is about planing..maybe there is a way to better organize your trading routes?!? :scratch:


This got me to thinking because I'm having troubles on my current game. I have all the inhabitants and all secondary production on my main island. Just outside my main island is a small island (pier on one side and warehouse on the other) that acts as my cargo depot. All the other islands have only the extractive primary industries.

There are 3 categories of transportable goods:

1) Primary products: wood, wool, bricks, cows, ore, cane, hops, tobacco leaves, whale oil, cocoa beans, honey, grain, marble, gold, gems, flowers, & colonial goods. This is 17 items but can be less if, for example, your population drinks either only beer or only rum, and they are vegetarians.

2) Consumables: food, cloth, tobacco, booze, light, pralines, bling, perfume, and exotic imports. This is 9 items.

3) Building materials: wood, tools, bricks, marble. This is 4 items--3 if you never need to move marble around.

In addition, items I generate but don't transport include flour, iron ingots, hand weapons, cannons, ambergris, and horses.

So, with large ships, I can get all the raw materials from my depot on the small island next to my big island, and it only takes 4 trade routes to do this. If I put the products I consume faster on one route, I can assign multiple ships to that route.

I don't have other islands inhabited yet, but I like one of my AI opponents--the other not so much--so his land will soon be my land, and I'll have to work with this. So I'll try to keep all my production on the main island and then it only takes 3 trade routes of small ships to supply the 9 consumables. Again, depending on the population size, multiple ships can be assigned to the trade routes. I haven't tried it yet, but I'll give it a go.

Then as far as building materials, I could use one trade route of one small ship to gradually build up tools, wood, and bricks to the production islands so that when I need to expand, it's all there. I'm not doing that now and it gets annoying because I have to make trips to get tools, wood, and bricks (though for wood, I usually just have a wood cutter on each island). This only takes one trade route for every 4 islands. I think--I haven't tried it yet.

Just a side note about my depot--I use passive trading in my depot to buy those items that my villagers occasionally run out of. A sort of strategic reserve of food, lamp oil, chocolate, cloth, booze, & tobacco. I built it up while my people were merchants so it would be nice and full before the queen starts her parasitic behavior.

One more thing--I like to have all my production on one island because the warehouse inventory really tells the story of my production. I can see exactly what I'm underproducing. I recently discovered that if my food supply is dwindling, I can tax the living heck out of my people and they'll move away--hence not consuming. It takes a minute for them to leave, but once the population is at a level you like, as soon as the tax rate gets into the yellow, they stop moving out immediately. This gives me time to figure out how to solve my supply problems.

[BaldJim]

... I have all the inhabitants and all secondary production on my main island. Just outside my main island is a small island (pier on one side and warehouse on the other) that acts as my cargo depot. All the other islands have only the extractive primary industries.

There are 3 categories of transportable goods:

1) Primary products: ...

2) Consumables: ...

3) Building materials: ...

My question is about the one step production chain of whale oil to lamp oil. First, let me point out that I would not use the term whale oil for the raw, extractive material (part of the whale). In American, whale oil and lamp oil are exactly the same thing; in that era, a "whale oil lamp" was more modern than a candle. The raw, extractive part of the whale is more correctly called: whale fat, or blubber. Blubbler is bulky, solid and difficult to handle. After rendering (a common term for reduction of any raw animal fat to a liquid), boiling down, or manufacturing, it is easier to handle and less bulky to ship.

All that has nothing to do with the game except to lay the ground for the question, does the manufactory have less lamp oil coming out than whale oil (blubber) going in?

If so, would reducing the bulk of what you ship from your extractive island perhaps introduce economy into both the shipping/trade routes and the handling on the cargo depot island? Just an idea I wonder about.

[Theodosius]

My question is about the one step production chain of whale oil to lamp oil. First, let me point out that I would not use the term whale oil for the raw, extractive material (part of the whale). In American, whale oil and lamp oil are exactly the same thing; in that era, a "whale oil lamp" was more modern than a candle. The raw, extractive part of the whale is more correctly called: whale fat, or blubber. Blubbler is bulky, solid and difficult to handle. After rendering (a common term for reduction of any raw animal fat to a liquid), boiling down, or manufacturing, it is easier to handle and less bulky to ship.

All that has nothing to do with the game except to lay the ground for the question, does the manufactory have less lamp oil coming out than whale oil (blubber) going in?

If so, would reducing the bulk of what you ship from your extractive island perhaps introduce economy into both the shipping/trade routes and the handling on the cargo depot island? Just an idea I wonder about.

In the case of blubber, it turns into two products--lamp oil and ambergris. So I'm better off sending the raw blubber and processing it after the trip into the two different items. I'm guessing that there is a one to one correspondence between inputs and outputs, i.e. one ton of blubber produces one ton of lamp oil or one ton of ambergris (and yet I still run low on perfume).

For something like grain, you could do the processing on the same island that does the growing and then combine it with fish and beef. But I like keeping the processing on my main island so the people there have jobs (even though in the game there is no relationship between population and employment).

[Dobber]

The fact you are carrying the blubber to your main island is one of the reasons you lack perfume. The output of the whalers is such that you can process ambergris and lampoil both at a maximum on the island where the whaling is going on. Why not produce them ther and at the main island and transport lamp oil ambergris and blubber all there?
Now with the two part products where you need blossoms and ambergris to make perfume, in a lot of cases you might have blossoms and whales at the same island, if you transport blossoms and blubber to your main island, it takes twice as much cargo space as carrying just the perfume if you processed it at the source island.

[BaldJim]

In the case of blubber, it turns into two products -- lamp oil and ambergris. ... I'm guessing that there is a one to one correspondence between inputs and outputs, i.e. one ton of blubber produces one ton of lamp oil or one ton of ambergris ...

I'm very sorry. I was looking a picture chart of production chains made by ChallengersCrew.tk, and I did not look at the perfume chain. Unfortunately, the pictures in that chain do not show the name of the manufactory that has an output of ambergris.

Ambergris = a solid, waxy, flammable substance of a dull grey or blackish color, with the shades being variegated like marble. It possesses a peculiar sweet, earthy odour similar to isopropyl alcohol. It was used as a fixative in perfumery. Ambergris was also molded, dried, decorated and worn as jewellery, particularly during the Renaissance. It was often formed into beads. Ambergris occurs as a biliary secretion of the intestines of the sperm whale, and can be found floating upon the sea, or in the sand near the coast besides in the guts of a whale being butchered.

So, I have to give the game a clear miss on verisimilitude of the whaling industry. Ambergris was actually recovered as a part of the butchering process which occurred in/at the whaler, and was not connected with the processing of blubber. But that is a whole different issue for those folks who are interested; the whale actually consists of meat/food, bone, fat/blubber, and minor by-products such as ambergris.

>> Wherever the blubber is processed, there is a question about how to allocate it between the two production chains. The same kind of problem exists with wood and raw iron (sometimes called pig iron)(and abstractly - grazing land). In those cases, the typical solution is simply to produce more than enough to satisfy all the demands, with the exception that the population can be cut off from wood for housing. Since you complain about being short of perfume, I suspect that the demand from the lamp oil manufactory draws up the blubber faster than the demand from the ambergris manufactory. A shortage of blubber?

>> As to the idea that there is a direct, ton to ton correspondence between input and output of a step in a production chain, I have to be doubtful of that. However, I suspect that somewhere, someone has already produced a chart of volume and time such as was done for Anno 1503. Such a reference would quickly answer the question.

Again, I regret the flaw in my original question.

:bawling: :blush: