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zippyriver
12-03-2007, 05:40
(aka: Zippytips)

FIRst ;), I want to say this is not intended to detract anything, in any way shape or form, from Dobber's guide. If anything here is usefull for that, feel free....

Second, this also is a work in progress. Some things needs to be fine tuned, or in need alteration depending on circumstances. Like Step Nine: sections B and C, might be better reversed. And some of the latter combines might raise a question mark (like 1 whaler +3 oil manufactories VS 1 whaler +2 oil manufactories. I have not found that 1 whaler is able to support 3 oilers* and have not tested the perfume chain* yet. ("*" info from the Anno 1701 Numbers and Statistics thread).

And third, this does not address buildings for military units or weapons (garrison, swords, cannons, ect..). The intent is to get to merchant level asap. Extra houses, ect. can be added afterwards once that level is reached.

I created this is Wordpad and used spacing so that it prints out nice, and am putting it in a code box for easy copy/paste. (although it appears my font sizes and alignments got lost).


This assumes you saved the game as soon as it started. I submit the *eXploration factor to your own personal prefrences. Once I decide on my initial warehouse site, I follow the following steps.

Tips:
1. I like to save at the end of each step, so I can take my time choosing where building and road placement in the next step will happen. I helps to be able to keep pace a little bit early on without worrying about a mis-click.

2. When placing markets, a Mickey Mouse pattern comes to mind. I also road box all my markets as carts are REQUIRED. Placement of a factory directly adjacent to a market is not sufficient for goods delivery.

3. When placing raw material buildings (IE: 2 sheep farms, smelter) I like to give the first two road access. This way the raw material can be built up in the WH for other tactics like raw sales and half-on chains.

4. When claiming space with markets, determine which ones will be high load and which will be low load markets. I try to limit my cart runs to +1. So a level 1 market will support 2 factories ONLY.

5. I hot key each initial trade route 1-9, to make sending for repairs easier.

6. Check you tax levels, and check them often.


Step One:
(16 wood, 16 tools)

A: Set ship to hot key "0" (using ctrl+0).
B: Load ship with 11 wood and 10 tools and send it off * for your second island.
C: If exposed map, open diplomacy and get your native trade agreements out of the way.
D: Set passive trading to buy 40 tools and sell up 40 food (none sold).
E: Shut off access to building materials.
F: Build 1 fisherhut and road to WH.
G: Build 1 woodcutter, road to WH and optimize.

Step Two:
(11 wood, 10 tools)
(can be post-poned)

A: Colonise your second island.
B: Build 1 fisherhut and road to WH.
C: Build 1 woodcutter, optimize, and road to WH.
D: Set passive trading to sell up to 20 wood and buy 20 tools.

Step Three:
(64 wood, 22 tools)

A: Build 3 market places so as to give maximun island coverage (giving consideration to resources and red tiles).
B: Build a woodcutter off of one of the "light load markets", optimize and road.
C: Build initial crossroads and place city center. Road remaining two sides.
D: Build one group of six houses on one side of the city center. Set taxes.
E: Build 1 sheep combo.
F: Build one group of six houses and one strip of 3 "kaddie-corner" to the center.

Step Four:
(79 wood, 4 bricks, 43 tools)

A: Build chapel next to town center corner on house heavy end.
B: When you have 31 wood and 22 tools, upgrade your houses.
C: Build one clay pit and two brick makers.
If clay is comming from your second island, take 16 wood and 7 tools from "B" and build it there and set a trade route.
If you have two limited clay pits, build a second clay pit and split up the brick makers (requires extra 6 wood and 3 tools).
D: Build school next to the chapel. Start research for fire house.
E: Finish block of 6 houses from "3F".
F: Build 7 houses in chapel/school radius opposite previous houses and upgrade (25 total).
G: Lock supplies and adjust taxes.


Step Five:
(11 wood, 10 tools)
(plus market costs)

A: Colonise your third island.
B: Build 1 fisherhut and road to WH.
C: Build 1 woodcutter, optimize, and road to WH.
D: Set passive trading to sell up to 20 wood and 20 food.
E: Build enough markets on your islands to claim the beachheads.
F: Deliver bricks and tools to upgrade warehouses and pick up any food.

Step Six:
(62 wood, 59 bricks, 40 tools)

A: Build firehouse on chapel street so as to just cover the houses.
B: Build iron mine, smelter and two tool makers.
C: Stop passive tool purchaces.
D: Build one butcher combo.
E: Build 2nd sheep combo, optimize and give road access.
F: Build shipyard and trade ships for your islands.
Send trade ships with enough supplies for that island's industry. Deduct from step seven.

Step Seven:
(69 wood, 63 bricks, 52 tools)

A: Build two alcohol combos. (28w,26b,24t)
B: Build one tobacco combo. (15w,14b,12t)
C: Set up any necessary trade route(s).
D: Build lodge (can be placed on any island).
E: Add 10 houses and upgrade (total 35).
F: Build second butcher.

G: Tend to the needs of my people so as to advance +(35w, 105b,35t).



Step Eight:
(64 wood, 72 bricks, 57 wood)

A: Build surgery in location to cover all houses.
B: Build second tobacco combo.
C: Build one whaler and two oil manufactory.
D: Build chocolate combo (2 cocoa, 2 honey; 1 confectionary once supplies are built up a bit).
E: Build theater.

F: Tend to needs of my people so as to advance. +(35w,105b,35t).

Step Nine:
(126 wood, 111 bricks, 98 tools, 5 marble)

A: Build third butcher combo. *
B: Build third alcohol combo.
C: Build third weaver combo.
D: Build marble combo (1 mine, 1 mason)
D: Build one perfume combo (1 whaler, 2 ambergis, 2 greenhouse, 1 perfumery)
E: Build one jewelry combo. (1 gold, 1 gem, 1 goldsmith)

Step Ten:
(when your ready to build the senate)

A: Build and upgrade 12 more houses (total 47). +(60w,72b,36t).
B: Build fourth butcher combo. (*One bakery combo replaces two butcher combos)
C: Build third tobacco combo.
D: Build second chocolate combo.
E: Build second perfume combo.
F: Build second jewelry combo.





Population needs for 35 houses
(based on annopedia thread)

Pioneers (280 ppl)
1 butcher, 1 weaver

Settlers (455 ppl)
1 butcher + 1 fisher or hunter, 2 weavers, 2 alcohol, 1 tobacco.

Citizens (700 ppl)
2 butchers or 1 grain combo, 2 weavers, 2 alcohol, 2 tobacco, 1 chocolate combo, 1 lamp oil

Merchants (1050 ppl)
3 butchers or 1 bakery + 1 butcher/3 fisher-hunter, 3 weavers, 3 alcohol, 2 tobacco;
1 chocolate, 1 lamp oil, 1 perfume (slight shortages).


Trade Routes:

A: Select desired ship and open trade route screen.
B: Assign the first waypoint ONLY, and exit the trade route screen.
C: Turn off the automatic route.
D: Re-open the trade route screen and complete the necessary details.

Now you can start it when your ready, after initial priming at any spot. (Would be a lot easier if trade routes started "de-activated").

Screen Shot:

The houses indicated for each step is of course flexible. The pattern is the primary point. I used cobblestone roads to show the pattern better.
Core: wait to replace the chapel until you can also build the college. With the extra strip of tiles blank on the back side, the cathedral will fit there. The theater placement is to cover the houses, although it looks odd.


http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/8643/35housesew9.th.jpg (http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=35housesew9.jpg)

:cheers:
--
Your gonna love this.

One of the biggest complaints I have read on the board is the problems with close zoom camera angle and obstructed veiw while building. :bash:
IE:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4821/screenshot0006bp3.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot0006bp3.jpg)


Is this more to your liking?

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9207/screenshot0007hf4.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot0007hf4.jpg)


Do I have your attention? :biggrin:

Steps

A: Open build menu and zoom all the way out.
B: Pause the game using the "p" key (NOT the "pause" key).
C: Zoom using the "page up" and "page down" keys. You can edge scroll at this point also. Position the map to be ready for building.
D: Unpause the game using the "p" key. If you edge scroll now, it will change the camera angle back to normal. You can, however, scroll around using the arrow keys.
E: Proceed with your construction choices for that section of the map.

BaldJim
12-03-2007, 14:44
(aka: Zippytips)
... Second, this also is a work in progress. ... Tips:
... 2. When placing markets, a Mickey Mouse pattern comes to mind. I also road box all my markets as carts are REQUIRED. Placement of a factory directly adjacent to a market is not sufficient for goods delivery. ...

What is a "Mickey Mouse" pattern?

Goods "Delivery":
>>Market Place Cartmen<<
they operate only on roads
they pickup goods from the building where produced
they carry goods FROM a production building TO only their Market Place

>>Production Building Journeymen<<
they are indifferent to roads
they pickup goods from either a different production building or a Market Place
they carry goods TO only their production building

With those points in mind, why a "road box" on Market Places? I realize road tiles are so cheap as to be throwaway, but why not only one or two road tiles to connect the immediately adjacent production building?

Just curious.

zippyriver
13-03-2007, 02:28
Mickey Mouse pattern: Could also be described as triangular placement (if you include the warehouse, it would be close to a diamond pattern). I will edit that part in the next version as I can see how it might be confusing to some.

Road box: I am talking about "goods" as in manufactured goods/finished products. Not "resources" as in raw materials. In 1602 you could place a Weaver, for example, adjacent to a market and the cloth would get delivered to the market without any roads required. Not the case in 1701.

Also, I had assumed troops moved faster on (namely cobblestone) roads, then across open field. So I like to place an extensive road network to that end. However, I tested that and roads have no effect on troop movement.

You make a valid point, and with further reflection that might not be such a good idea. I did a count in my current game and perhaps they are not as "so cheap as to be throwaway" as it appears when building them. I currently have 10 markets (on 3 islands). That has a total of 200 road tiles using a box. If I build only one road outlet on each side of the market (some don't need 4 road branches, but for the sake of argument..), that saves 160 road tiles :eek: .
That's an 800 coin savings for roads and 2400 coins for cobblestone.

BaldJim
13-03-2007, 15:44
Mickey Mouse pattern: Could also be described as triangular placement (if you include the warehouse, it would be close to a diamond pattern). ...

Road box: I am talking about "goods" as in manufactured goods/finished products. Not "resources" as in raw materials. In 1602 you could place a Weaver, for example, adjacent to a market and the cloth would get delivered to the market without any roads required. Not the case in 1701. ...

Mickey Mouse pattern: I am still at a loss except to know that you say that Mickey Mouse has a geometrical shape that relates to either a triangle or a diamond (conjoined triangles). :scratch:

Road box: I am not sure that your split between "goods" and "resources" is valid. I submit that raw materials are items which have NOT passed through a production building. Raw materials are:
Grazing Land
Fish
Wild Game
Marble Deposits
Ore (Iron)
Trees
Pit (Clay)
Gold Deposits
Gem Deposits
Whales
Beehive (? if not a natural occurrence, perhaps an open land area is the real raw material)

I'm not sure about what ANNO 1602 has to do with it. Any output from a building - be it a sheep farm or a mine or whatever the first step in a production chain is - is a "manufactured" product, a good. All "goods" are moved from point to point in the manner I outlined above.

What is the issue? ABOUT MANUFACTURED & RAW?
-------------------
http://forum.sunflowers.de/showpost.php?p=293138&postcount=2

I'd suggest not to build the road all the way around the warehouse tho. I've found that often the cart will spawn several extra tiles away and drive over to pick up then drive back to return. Where as if you only put a one tile wide road from the closest point of the warehouse to the factory the cart has no choice but to take it, further optimizing transport time.

zippyriver
14-03-2007, 05:28
...a geometrical shape that relates to either a triangle or a diamond (conjoined triangles).

Glad to see you got the concept. A horse by any other color.....


What is the issue?


That's what I was wondering. I already stated that road boxing was based on a mis-conception and that it was wastefull.

And as much as I would like to go on about how to a tools manufacturer, steel is a "raw" material... it has no bearing on road boxing (which is already a moot point).

BaldJim
14-03-2007, 12:45
Glad to see you got the concept. ...
That's what I was wondering. I already stated that road boxing was based on a mis-conception and that it was wastefull. ...

I don't have the concept. All I have is your statement that Mickey Mouse has the geometrical shape of a triangle. I don't see him that way at all. When I look at Mickey Mouse, what kind of triangle am I supposed to see?

When I asked about the "issue," I was beyond "road boxing" - sorry that wasn't clear. What's the issue about the way the game designates raw material vs processed (or manufactured) goods?

Production chains start with a building that processes a raw material into an output. At that point, it is no longer a "raw" material, but rather a good which can be moved (either to the next processing building or a Market Place/Warehouse) and further processed, consumed, or sold.

Maxie Zeus
15-03-2007, 07:04
I don't have the concept. All I have is your statement that Mickey Mouse has the geometrical shape of a triangle. I don't see him that way at all. When I look at Mickey Mouse, what kind of triangle am I supposed to see?

I'm not totally certain, but I'm pretty sure zippyriver means a pattern like this, so-named because it resembles a certain famous rodent and his bowling-ball ears: http://anbat.toonzone.net/cextrac/mickeypattern.jpg

I'm not sure if zippyriver also means for the "ears" to be touching, though. I assume they ought to, otherwise you're leaving potentially valuable land outside your borders.

BaldJim
15-03-2007, 14:04
I'm not totally certain, but I'm pretty sure zippyriver means a pattern like this, so-named because it resembles a certain famous rodent and his bowling-ball ears:

http://anbat.toonzone.net/cextrac/mickeypattern.jpg

...

Thanks. Even though your post actually showed me a "red X" rather than the picture, I was able to access the remote site to view the picture. (Now it shows O.K.)

I have to observe that this is a "Mickey's HEAD" pattern and not a "Whole Mickey" pattern. That is, only face and ears -- not head, upper & lower body, hands and feet.

In any case, thanks :cool:

Now I have to wonder if an inverted Mickey's Head would not also work.

:confused:

nullspace
15-03-2007, 19:46
Nice post zippyriver, but I have a few questions:

Is the 10-step program actually possible? With so few houses, it seems like you wouldn't be making enough money to pay the construction costs of new buildings or reasearch.

What's the reasoning behind putting a fisherman on each island? Is it just to sell the food? That doesn't seem like it would be worth using up your limited tools.

Why put roads adjacent to the town center? I'd rather put a row of houses on all sides of the town center, then put a road around that.

Also, passively buying tools is cheaper than producing them. I usually don't build a tool chain until I'm ready to upgrade to aristocrats, because that takes a lot of tools.

Dobber
15-03-2007, 19:54
Welcome to the forum, nullspace! :halloha:

zippyriver
16-03-2007, 05:09
Nice post zippyriver, but I have a few questions:

Is the 10-step program actually possible? With so few houses, it seems like you wouldn't be making enough money to pay the construction costs of new buildings or reasearch.


Good question.

Yes, it is possible. I follow these steps all the time, but do keep in mind they are not written in stone. Any given situation can require you to adapt and stray from each step. Nothing wrong with that. And yes, you will run into some money short falls taking the steps but you will be in the green (barely) or close to it after each level upgrade. In my current game, I supplemented the most cost intensive level (citizen) with an extra tobacco combo because of the shipping distance. But also to give me a working surplus once main island stores got built up, and sales (active and passive trading) to the AI can more than make up enough.

I myself have a hard time following the steps, and when I do it certainly shows up in the coin output. There are areas you can make savings. For example, running one brickmaker instead of two. But you might end up short on bricks when your at the housing upgrade steps. That, imo, you don't want. It can be done with one, but they delay in housing upgrade costs you more money in taxes than the manit cost of the building (from what I have observed).

Using the steps, I do end up getting a "loan from the queen" 3-5 times before getting to merchant, but it usually seems to be caused because I got ahead of myself. Also, surplus sales from active trading gives you the boosts when you need them.

A nice aside to the steps is a quick perusal of your island will let you know where your at in progression. For example, say you have the lodge built but not the second butcher combo, you know where you can pick back up and know what is needed without worrying about a missed step. (like when loading the game after taking a break)


What's the reasoning behind putting a fisherman on each island? Is it just to sell the food? That doesn't seem like it would be worth using up your limited tools.

Actually, you would be supprized at how much wood and food gets sold on those feeder islands. And after you claim the beachheads, you can usually get them set to sell anything over 40 stock (one cargo hold) and only be at about half WH capacity. Having emergency food stores can save you too, for times when your cash/tools tight and a hurricane (ect) erases your main island food producers.

Fish are for sale. I don't like relying on expendable resources for food for my population. There are enough other methods available for that, leaving fish soley in a "surplus sales over stop-gap stores" catagory (imo).


Why put roads adjacent to the town center? I'd rather put a row of houses on all sides of the town center, then put a road around that.

For fast access to the houses for the fire truck and doctor, for the housing pattern I use.

The housing pattern I use lets you get to merchant with minimal public buildings. City design is really up to the player. The important thing is having all 35 houses able to be upgraded. If one of the houses is outside of the radius of any of the public you will get caught short. If your favorite city set up is different, that's fine. I put mine in there as an example of what I found to work.

I also like to use the city-center main roads for militia troop patrol routes.


Also, passively buying tools is cheaper than producing them. I usually don't build a tool chain until I'm ready to upgrade to aristocrats, because that takes a lot of tools.

I have found passive buying ok, but you don't always have the tools you need, when you need them. Also, supporting a smaller population requires less production chains, saving enough tools for not only the tool chain but the "extra" brick chain buildings I mentioned. I rarely have any tool problems. I also pick up tools with free trader quests. Earlier for my main island, later for my production islands (or where needed most).

The problem with waiting until aristocrats, is all you other chains have been built by then, and your need for tools is a lot smaller. By the time I am at that point the tools makers spend a lot of time shut down.

From what I read, there is some doubt to tools being cheaper passive bought. But that is topic for another thread.
*

There are some things with the steps that can be fine tuned, giving you savings in various areas. Other things are really up to the player (city and production lay-outs,ect). I think this is a good thing. Too rigid of a list would detract from playability.

The primary concept behind the steps is to get to merchant as quickly as possible, and expand your housing out from there as supplies allow.

Also, in case any are wondering, all my games are played normal level, medium settings where available, 3 AI, all disasters on.

Maxie Zeus
16-03-2007, 05:51
Thanks. Even though your post actually showed me a "red X" rather than the picture, I was able to access the remote site to view the picture. (Now it shows O.K.)

Yeah, I don't know what happened. The image displayed after I posted it. Glad it clarified things, though. :)

EDIT: Having that red X in the post is just embarrassing, though. Deleted.

zippyriver
16-03-2007, 07:06
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8884/screenshot0009ip7.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot0009ip7.jpg)

35 houses

Yes, I am running red. But passive sales alone net more than that. The balance is ever increasing. (and I have been building).

Other factors

I already have in place the necessary chains to support a population explosion (save one bakery combo), so there are those idle maint costs there. Only thing missing is the houses from step 10 (I also waited on the large church).

I have huge stores of everything except perfume and large resource stores needed to make them all. I could shut down to the green if needed.

I did not persue either tech branch containing "master craftsman certificate" or "guild house". Both of those will affect how many buildings of each chain you will have to build. When I first wrote this out I had followed the prior. It needs to be tested out for each branch regarding production cost vs purchase cost, and how many buildings are appropriate in a given chain. Like tools: make or buy; and 1 whaler/2 lamp oil vs 1 whaler/3 lamp oil (with master craftsman certificate). So I set up this one to be able to test both branches. I can provide a save if someone were so inclined as to do that.

edit: oh yeah, I have not built the jewlery chain yet (not a big concern :rofl: )

zippyriver
23-03-2007, 17:56
I made several adjustments to the steps. The new version is in it's own (revised) thread. Thank you for all your comments. Please refer to the new thread for any future discussions.