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zippyriver
23-03-2007, 18:01
There were enough changes from the first version, I decided to start a new thread to reduce possible confusions.

There are of course, many ways to get to financial independence. These steps, for me anyway, get me "there" with the least amount of hassle. Some concessions have to be made, like your not going to be able to support a large fleet of ships, but that comes later (right) after the senate jump. Some things can be changed out if you want to try other things, like more ships in lieu of extra producers, but that will also inhibit active trading to a large extent. The trade-offs you end up picking are due largely to independent situations.

This assumes you saved the game as soon as it started. This also assumes you road and optimize as necessary. I submit the *eXploration factor to your own personal prefrences. Once I decide on my initial warehouse site, I follow the following steps.


Step One:
(16 wood, 19 tools)

A: If exposed map, open diplomacy and get your native trade agreements out of the way.
B: Set ship to hot key "0" (using ctrl+0).
(I actually do the first two before I settle the first island.)
C: Load ship with 11 wood and 10 tools and send it off * for your second island.
D: Set passive trading to buy 40 tools and sell up to 40 food (none sold).
E: Shut off access to building materials.
F: Build 1 fisherman hut.
G: Build 2 lumberjack huts.

Step Two:
(11 wood, 10 tools)
(can be post-poned)

A: Colonise your second island.
B: Build 1 fisherman hut (or, expand coverage with a market 1).
C: Build 1 lumberjack hut.
D: Set passive trading to sell up to 20 wood and buy 40 tools.

Step Three:
(70 wood, 22 tools)

A: Build 3 market places so as to give maximun island coverage (giving consideration to resources and red tiles).
B: Build village center and place initial out-road (town center radius edge).
C: Build 15 houses.
D: Build 1 sheep combo.
E: Build chapel so that it covers your housing plan. Adjust taxes.

Step Four:
(97 wood, 4 bricks, 47 tools)

A: When you have 31 wood and 22 tools, upgrade your houses.
B: Build one clay pit and two brick makers. {see note 1}
If clay is comming from your second island, take 16 wood and 7 tools from "B" and build it there and set a trade route.
If you have two limited clay pits, build a second clay pit and split up the brick makers (requires extra 6 wood and 3 tools).
C: Deliver any extra food, wood and tools from the second island.
D: Build school so as to cover the houses. Start research for fire house.
E: Build 20 houses in chapel/school radius and upgrade (35 total).
F: (Lock supplies and) adjust taxes.
G: Build 2nd sheep combo.

Step Five:
(11 wood, 10 tools)
(can be postponed)

A: Colonise your third island.
B: Build 1 fisherman hut. (or expand with a market 1)
C: Build 1 lumberjack hut.
D: Set passive trading to sell up to 20 wood and 20 food (if you built the fisher).

Step Six:
(48 wood, 52 bricks, 32 tools)
(plus supplies for D, E and H)

A: Build firehouse so as to just cover the houses.
B: Build iron mine, smelter and one tool maker. {see notes 2, 3}
C: Stop passive tool purchaces.
D: Deliver bricks and tools to upgrade warehouses and pick up any food. Also adjust passive trading settings (all warehouses).
E: Build enough markets on your islands to claim the beachheads.
F: Build one butcher combo. Or supplement food as needed with fisherman huts until grain is unlocked.
G: Upgrade any heavy load markets.
H: Build shipyard and trade ships for your islands.
Send trade ships with enough supplies for that island's industry. Deduct from step seven.

Step Seven:
(59 wood, 63 bricks, 52 tools)

A: Build two alcohol combos. (28w,26b,24t)
B: Build one tobacco combo. (15w,14b,12t)
A second tobacco combo is not a bad idea, as it gives a great active trade item.
C: Set up any necessary trade route(s).
D: Build lodge (can be placed on any island). Do this right before you run out of options to research in the first school branch.
E: ).
F: Build second butcher. Alternatively, add food to your trade route from your production islands instead of selling it. Or supplement food as needed with fisherman huts until grain is unlocked.

G: Tend to the needs of my people so as to advance +(35w, 105b,35t).

Step Eight:
(64 wood, 69 bricks, 60 tools)

A: Build surgery in location to cover all houses.
B: Build second (or third) tobacco combo.
C: Build one whaler and two lamp oil manufactory. (one lamp oil will support until "F" if you need to skimp).
D: Build one chocolate combo (2 cocoa, 2 honey; 1 confectionary once supplies are built up a bit).
A second chocolate combo is not a bad idea, as it gives a great active trade item.
E: Build theater so as to cover the houses.

F: Tend to needs of my people so as to advance. +(35w,105b,35t).

Step Nine:
(112 wood, 98 bricks, 86 tools, 5 marble)

A: Build third butcher combo. *
B: Build third alcohol combo.
C: Build third weaver combo.
D: Build marble combo (1 mine, 1 mason)
D: Build one perfume combo (1 whaler, 2 ambergis, 2 greenhouse, 1 perfumery) {see note 4}
E: Build one jewelry combo. (1 gold, 1 gem, 1 goldsmith)

Step Ten:
(when your ready to build the senate)

A: Build and upgrade 12 more houses (total 47). +(60w,72b,36t).
B: Build fourth butcher combo. (*One bakery combo replaces two butcher combos)
C: Build third tobacco combo.
D: Build second chocolate combo.
E: Build second perfume combo. {see note 4}
F: Build second goldsmith.
G: (18 more houses unlocks the castle)

Notes:

1: With running only one brick maker, I found myself waiting on bricks too often.

2: With running only one tool maker, I was able to meet needs fairly readily. This also gave large stores of raw iron (for use with cannon and weapon foundries), and large stores of iron ore (when the smelter is shut down due to overstock). Later on, the one smelter also was able to support a weapon and cannon foundry. This is with regular iron ore mines (no unlimited iron ore on this particular island, but had 4 limited resources).

3: IF you prefer to buy your tools instead of making them, delay steps 6:B and C until your ready to add weapon/cannon buildings. But you won't have the material reserves for them (unless you buy raw iron too).

Since raw iron can be used by more than one chain, including the entire ore mine and smelter costs to tools, weapons AND cannons does not make sence to me. Unless tools, weapons and cannons EACH have dedicated 1-1-2 chains. But I have yet to run 3 deep iron ore mines at the same time, and have not found a need for dedicated ore mine/smelters. Weapons and cannons are not something I try to over produce, as I don't like selling those to the AI (hello...).

4: I suggested the buildings for the perfumery chain based on the numbers & statistics thread, however I am finding it not necessarily accurate. With master craftsman certificate* I am currently running the following:
1 whaler, 2 lamp oil*, 1 ambergis, 4 greenhouse, 2 perfumery*. After running the game for 5 minutes(in game clock) the stores of whale oil, ambergis and blossoms remained steady and had increases in lamp oil and perfume (supporting 1650 merchants). All buildings running at 100% (110% for lamp oil and perfume).

Tips:
1. I like to save at the end of each step, so I can take my time choosing where building and road placement in the next step will happen. I helps to be able to keep pace a little bit early on without worrying about a mis-click.

2. When placing material buildings (IE: sheep farms, smelter) I like to give the first two road access. This way the market can support each step of the production chain to the extent of the stores, in case you decide to save coin shutting down part of it. Excess stores can also be sold, of course.

3. When claiming space with markets, determine which ones will be high load and which will be low load markets. I try to limit my cart runs to +2. So a level 1 market will support 3 producers. You don't want to set up your cloth chains on a market that is going to have to haul bricks and iron et al, when those options become available.

4. I hot key each initial trade routes 1-4, active traders 5-6, and combat ships (descending order) 0-7, to make sending for repairs easier.

5. It never hurts to check if a building can be optimized, but do it after you place the road on tiles in the area of effect.

6. I find it much faster and easier to manualy upgrade my houses. It allows for more control, esp when you have more than one level of housing needing upgrade.

Population needs for 35 houses
(based on annopedia thread)

Pioneers (280 ppl, 8 ea)
1 butcher, 1 weaver

Settlers (455 ppl, 13 ea)
1 butcher + 1 fisher or hunter, 2 weavers, 2 alcohol, 1 tobacco.

Citizens (700 ppl, 20 ea)
2 butchers or 1 grain combo, 2 weavers, 2 alcohol, 2 tobacco, 1 chocolate combo, 1 lamp oil

Merchants (1050 ppl, 30 ea)
3 butchers or 1 bakery + 1 butcher/3 fisher-hunter, 3 weavers, 3 alcohol, 2 tobacco;
1 chocolate, 1 lamp oil, 1 perfume (slight shortages).

Trade Routes:

A: Select desired ship and open trade route screen and immediately close it (making no selections).
B: Turn off the automatic route.
C: Re-open the trade route screen and complete the necessary details.
Now you can start it when your ready, after initial priming at any spot. (Would be a lot easier if trade routes started "de-activated").
D: If you have a 3 island route, excess product can be emergency stored at the third island. IE:
IslandA load full item, IslandB unload all (this is the island that needs it), IslandC Unload all (store it, sell it, whatever). This puts the transport fully empty at the end of the route so it gets to point A the fastest. (obviously not needed if your not delivering more that can be used/stored in IslandB)

Screen Shot:
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/4772/47houseswq3.th.jpg (http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=47houseswq3.jpg)

1. The school and chapel need not be replaced later on. Both will suffice without "upgrade". Leaving the school keeps the school tech branch available in the university window. There is enough room around the school/theater you could replace one or the other with the advanced building.

2. Obviously, there is a lot of room for expansion, once you decide to come up off of the basement floor of 35 houses.

3. The outside edge of the houses mirrors the town center and support buildings radius edge (for the most part).

4. The first 15 house are the citizens (Step 3:C).

5. The second 20 houses are settlers (Step 4:E)

6. The final 12 houses are pioneers (Step 10:A).

Thank you for taking the time to read this long post. Any comments are of course welcome.

I hope I didn't miss anything :biggrin:

Sinflicious
26-03-2007, 23:49
Screen Shot:
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/4772/47houseswq3.th.jpg (http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=47houseswq3.jpg)


All well and good and an interesting read but what are the two item right below the town center? I don't recognize them. :eek:

zippyriver
27-03-2007, 03:42
The building on the right is the school house, the large one on the left is the senate.

Obviously, this was a satellite island as you can't get the senate with that housing combo (all would have to be upgraded). But it does show how you can fit a senate in with the other buildings.

Eagleclaw
05-05-2007, 14:57
I think this plan is fine at easy and normal level but I find it too slow at the hard level. At the hard level you must develop your city as fast as possible. Four lumberjacker huts is a must. First you need tools for pioneer houses, later you need it to upgrade the houses, for the ore melters and ships. If you only have two lumberjacket huts you must buy a lot of wood. You also need to produce tools much faster and you need two tool makers. Build an additional ore mines for weapons and canons. If it is a deep mine you can use it for tools when you have more inhabitants.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2219/anno1701medals02xb1.jpg

Reka
05-05-2007, 17:45
[SIZE="2"]C: Build one whaler and two lamp oil manufactory. (one lamp oil will support until "F" if you need to skimp).
D: Build one chocolate combo (2 cocoa, 2 honey; 1 confectionary once supplies are built up a bit).
A second chocolate combo is not a bad idea, as it gives a great active trade item.
E: Build theater so as to cover the houses.
.
.
.
D: Build one perfume combo (1 whaler, 2 ambergis, 2 greenhouse, 1 perfumery) {see note 4}
E: Build one jewelry combo. (1 gold, 1 gem, 1 goldsmith)

Step Ten:
(when your ready to build the senate)

The order in which you do these steps is a bit odd. If you give chocolate or lamp oil to citizens, you lose money. You can increase the taxes that way, but the production costs are in fact *higher* then what you gain from the higher taxes.

This is true for all other luxury goods as well, except clothes for pioneers. In contrast building theaters or the other luxury public buildings is always worth it. Thus it would make more sense to concentrate on these buildings first & to care about the luxury products later. The luxury goods should be given to the population only immediatly before the upgrade.

One can make a profit by selling these goods instead of giving them to the population though, but as the free trader often takes his time to come shopping, this strategy implies paying an interest for the storage time.

zippyriver
05-05-2007, 22:48
The order in which you do these steps is a bit odd. If you give chocolate or lamp oil to citizens, you lose money. You can increase the taxes that way, but the production costs are in fact *higher* then what you gain from the higher taxes.

Thank you very much for your post Reka. (btw, I am not arguing these points with you, just explaining).

First:
I am under the understanding the debate between production cost and associated tax increases is based on the cost values indicated in the number's and statistics . I have found those numbers to not be entirely accurate. But I do agree you can make a fortune selling them before the advance that makes them a requirement. You also want to have a supply built up in the ware house before you upgrade, otherwise you can run out and cause yourself grief with the upgrade process (1 unit in, 1 used, complaints of zero stock, rinse, repeat). I also like to make sure I am producing enough to satisfy the base population (IE: the settlers that are going to turn into citizens), and I don't mind if tax income is slightly less than production cost. If I am producing enough to satisfy the need, and am making a surplus. The coin you get from the surplus sales should also be factored in.

Common statement: production cost is $## and tax income is $##, so it's not worth it.

My debate on it: production cost is $##, tax income is $## and surplus sales are $##, and it is worth it.

The common statement may (or may not) apply, if you are producing exactly what your population needs. But that is nary the case. Take the info for tobacco, as example. If one chain produces enough for 665 people, thats enough for 51.153846 settler houses. And after upgrading it's enough for 33.25 citizen houses (provided you blocked access to the 18 houses you didn't upgrade). Since you can't build partial houses, you WILL end up with a surplus. The sales from the surplus product have to be factored in to the production cost/profit ratio. Other factors that have to be considered are the effects of Master Craftsman Certificate and the Guild House.

When I wrote this out, I was doing a lot of concentrating on balancing production needs (surplus sales aside). If the chains are in place, and released to the population, you can determine if your surplus is too much, and be able to add houses to close the gap.

Second:
I completely agree with you regarding the order of placement with civil buildings (theater, etc). With using minimal housing (for minimal number of production chains), coin is usually in short supply, and often I would have to rely on surplus sales to get the extra coin needed to be able to place the theater (1k coin). If I were to re-write this, I would indeed place the theater higher on the list. But even with it not being in an optimal order, you can still win the game (by independence) following the order.

Third:
It is not meant to be the golden strategy, just a way to get from Point A to Point B for those having trouble while learning the game at the lower levels. I myself was still learning things when this was wrote. Using this development will give a decent foundation than can be expanded on. If you want to go for a massive settlement with lots of houses, you can easily do that, without worrying about civil building coverage for your initial housing group. Of course you would have to place the appropriate number of additional production chains, etc.. If you want to go on a conquest, you would also need the appropriate buildings (and the housing to support them). It's just a foundation for play (up to normal difficulty level). How the player builds from here is entirely up to them.

It's nice that it is not perfect (imo). It's always great fun when you discover something about a game, as opposed to following a rock solid walk-through (if there is such a thing :lol: ).

:cheers:

Reka
06-05-2007, 11:04
I am under the understanding the debate between production cost and associated tax increases is based on the cost values indicated in the number's and statistics . I have found those numbers to not be entirely accurate.

I'm not aware of any debate about this...it's certainly true that the tables on the engl. board are wrong to a ridiculous extent. The ones on the german board did converge over time to realistic numbers, concerning the population needs, after many experments and much debate. Alas some ppl never updated their wrong old tables. Other goods (wood, tools,...) still get strange values there, personally I use my own table for them which I believe to be 100% accurate; it's just that I'm too lazy yet to post it as posting tables in this BBS is a pain.

Anyway for the consumation goods the true numbers are agreed upon. My posted calculations for the taxes are based on these numbers which the german stats thread converged to.

Common statement: production cost is $## and tax income is $##, so it's not worth it.
My debate on it: production cost is $##, tax income is $## and surplus sales are $##, and it is worth it.

With some goods you actually lose money when selling them...apart from that, my point was that if the free trader comes only every 10min or so, you make an investment for that duration & this prevents you from actively using the money during this time to e.g. build more production facilities. Thus with goods where you gain only a small amount from selling, it's still not really worth it. The only thing I build myself in larger quantities is the tobacco line.

I still don't quite see a rational reason for not selling all of it until you upgrade...how many production units you city shall need we all know from experience, and a small shortage due to a delayed ship shall not immediatly let them burn down the town.
If I were to re-write this, I would indeed place the theater higher on the list.

Even more so with the Senate. After having merchants with Senates it takes a long time until you get again that amount of tax gain per citizen. Aristocrats need 3 palace/light house parts to produce a higher gain, and for that you need 2600 of them.
It's always great fun when you discover something about a game, as opposed to following a rock solid walk-through
Certainly; I only intended to point out a very common mistake, which I committed myself too of course early on. It took me some time & thinking to overcome it.

zippyriver
06-05-2007, 11:53
Excellent points. I likewise am having to un-learn some of things I took as gospel early in the learning process. As we all know, it's harder to unlearn than it is to learn.

I hope some day the English numbers and statistics thread will be fixed. I will google translate (though reading their translations gives me a headache at times) the N&S German list again. It certainly couldn't hurt.

and a small shortage due to a delayed ship shall not immediately let them burn down the town.

No, they won't burn the town down, but i have had the ascension arrow get lost because of it, and that does not re-appear immediately. I don't keep a full ware house, usually only 20-40, depending on warehouse capacity (which is usually about 5x or more higher than what I keep in stock).

I also pursue active trading a lot. So the free trader only showing up every 10 min or so is not that big of a deal, esp if I have a large abundance of goods (I will shut down plants as needed if I am producing too much and have no outlet for them).

Yeah, tobacco is a great trade item. I also like chocolate and jewelery. I have not had a lot of luck with market need for ambergris though :(.

Casey Jones
09-05-2007, 11:10
Good debate fella's. I follow well the aspects of makeing a profit and keeping all happy, this Itinery of yours zippyriver I follow and have even printed out to follow to the letter.

I have now made some changes to your original text, but only small one's, like haveing two Wood cutting facilities instead of one on one Island(my second).:biggrin:

I allso look for a deep mine or mines to give me a better gameplay, the smaller time mines I do not use if possible.

DrizztDoUrden
09-05-2007, 18:40
awesome job:go: i am not good at blance my economy right now,next time i ll try to build a city like that..