Game balance

[Es.]

Don't know if this have been asked or answeard before and i coulndet find it anywhere so here i go.

My biggest concern for this game is the huge map.
Why you ask ?
Well it's great it's big but let's say your playing and evrything goes well for you, but far far away in the other end of europe out of your reach and influence, a kingdom is growing extreamely powerfull, and capable of simpely bouldozing his way acros europe and conqoureing evrything with out you or any other nations, having the slightest chanse of doing anything, though you did manage your kingdom extreamely well your still with out a chanse and losses the game because a ruler was lucky in the start and got a head start.
Just seen this in way to many games, with that giant enemy you can't do anything about.
So just wondering if you have considered this aspect and what to do with it ?

Also there is the opposite problem when you have conqoured ½ of europe, and all thats left in most games is the nagging/boring, but easy task to wipe out the rest small and pathetic nations that stands in your way for total domminations, here my question is will this be as easy and boring as in many other games or will the there be mechanics in the game (for exampels diplomacy that makes the rest of the small kingdoms to rally forces and fce you untill you are no more that big threat ) or will it be that trivial boring task of mass slaugthering defensles kingdoms ?

[Cork2]

I heard there are 3 Difficulties. So if you keep it on easy that shouldn't happen. There are alot of factions to deal with. I doubt you can have one whole army to take over europe, cause any faction can attack at any time at any place. I doubt one power full Kingdom can buldoze his way acrose europe. When he is traveling he can be ambushed by another army or by rebels or he could run into another army. If you have your army traveling with out rest their moral drops and they will not fight very well then. Then the day and night cycle can change the outcome of a battle. And each fight you get into you suffer casulties.

[Es.]

Aye Cork2 that i am aware off, but normaly a big country have more than 1 army so if 1 army have to rest the rest of your armies can continue, or if your 10000 man strong army get's ambushed at night by 100 men, no big deal if you lose 1000 men you still win and get that kingdom.
What i mean by buldozing your way through, is overwhelming forces, where the opponents have no chanses, i have seen it in so many games, and it tend to ruin them.
A great exampel of this is Master of Orion (1,2 and 3) or civilazation (1,2 and 3) when you are at the end of the game you usualy have a Army 10 times stronger than the rest of your enemies and it's just a matter of spending some boring time counqoring alot of land masses, no big difficulties in it it's just so boring because there is no chalange in it.
Or you end the game because a PC player got extreamely big in the start and managed to bouldoze his way through the map leaving you with nothing but a impossible fight because a empire got to lucky.

[Cork2]

I am sure thats not genne happen with this game. Even if the A.I. would do something like that it would take him a very long time to get to you if he were to start on the far left and you were all the way to the right. I am sure by the time he would get to you his army would be small enought for you to take on. He would still have to go throught Alot of realms and if you have allies they would prolly come to your aid if you are out numbered. Also if you are a good stratagiest i am sure you can beat him if you are outnumbered.

[Es.]

Cork2 i still don't think you have understood what i mean.
Yes there are dificult levels that you can pick so it matches your skills, and gives you a chalange.
But my concerns are the big map you (you = the player or PC) can quickely get a kingdom on the map that is 5-10 times bigger than the rest of the kingdoms, when you first get a kingdom this big, it have the resources to upkeep a huge army, he have a production that alowes him to reinforces what ever losses normal kingdoms can deal him, he can sige war on several kingdoms and still win over them with ease.
Basecialy you have a kingdom bouldozing your way through the map, and all the time that kingdom is growing in force way faster than anyone can deal it harm.
Ever played Master of orion or Civilasation, in the end a part have 1/3 or 1/2 of the map and there are a few minor nations left, the big nations only have one task, desiding which enemy to kill next, it's no chalage at all, it's just a matter of moving the troops into the attack and you have won, and those games are played on way smaller maps than this game have.
So what i am saying is if the problem with a big empire is present in games with much smaller maps than KoH, imagine the problems that may arise in KoH with the 1 big kingdom, doing what ever it want.
And especialy the problem if you are controling the big kingdom the boardom you will feel when you ain't faced any chalange anymore because you own ½ the world and the last ½ of the world is devided between 10 small kingdoms that have pathetic armies compared to yours.
It's plain and simpel just a boring matter of moving your armis into a kingdom and watch them taking yet another pice of land, with no chalange what so ever, it's what i generaly call
BORING But nessesary.
Nessesary so you get your score at the end of the game.
I know from personaly experience from master of orion, civilasation and other games like those that i have quited many conqure the world games when i controled ½ of the map because of the above problem.
Just my 2 cents

[Trax]

I personally hate world conquest in games and never bother with it. Seems just too absurd and ahistorical solution.
I perfer to develop my small corner of the world and fight mostly defensive wars.

[Cork2]

Well the point in this game is to pretty much take over the world here. I doubt the A.I is as weak as you might think I am sure the A.I. Those last 10 kingdoms could combine their forces and could attack you and theres always a chance another faction would be created because at the begining of the game you don't start out with all of them.

[Frujin]

Hey, hey ... Es.

Very good question! I'd say ... very sharp thoughts. So, first of all I want to say that I also got bored in huge games when I have to chase down the AI to the last man hiding somewhere. It's true that in some games when you get very strong it actually is not a problem for you to win ... you just have to prove it. Which is not about having fun anymore. It becomes about "working".

Also, the point about the "big enemy" is very strong.

I want to asure you that we at Black Sea Studios are gamers as well as game developers and we have that in mind. We have solution, which, I bet my last beer, you are going to like :)

We can't communicate it at this stage, but I hope we will do in one of the next updates ofthe official web site.

[Jarlabanke]

M:TW tried to solve this by having all the smaller kingdoms gang up against the biggest, and in the end you were stuck with all these little oneprovince kingdoms that were launching suicide attacks for no reason what so ever. Hope such a thing won't have anything to do with your solution.

[Es.]

Originally posted by Frujin
Hey, hey ... Es.

Very good question! I'd say ... very sharp thoughts. So, first of all I want to say that I also got bored in huge games when I have to chase down the AI to the last man hiding somewhere. It's true that in some games when you get very strong it actually is not a problem for you to win ... you just have to prove it. Which is not about having fun anymore. It becomes about "working".

Also, the point about the "big enemy" is very strong.

I want to asure you that we at Black Sea Studios are gamers as well as game developers and we have that in mind. We have solution, which, I bet my last beer, you are going to like :)

We can't communicate it at this stage, but I hope we will do in one of the next updates ofthe official web site.
Thanks for the compliment
And i will keep you up to the bet about the last beer :cheers: :D

Nice to also hear you have thought of this problem, since it is the death to most bigmap strategy games.
Anyway i will throw in my idears how it can be done.
There is the above solution with the last kingdoms joining forces to simpely survie.
Or
The greater a kingdom, the greater the problems of control get's.
The fall of many ancient empires was there size, they simpely couldent controll such big empirs. So i would sugest making some growing unrest factors, the bigger the kingdom the greater the chanse of a rebelion, which will result in huge armies bound to one task, keep controll of the kingdom.
If possible to implement there could be a nationality factor, for exampel a english king would have troubels controling french towns because the french will feel they are under a foregin ruler.