House Rules for Harder Play

[Laudan]

Boring????

[Sir Sean]

im with Elvain hes right there is no golden rule in modding u mod how u want if no one likes it but u do who cears its what u want no one is putting a gun to someones head to use my mod your mod Elvains mod its just have a go and have fun Elvain your mods great but im back to vanila cos my bro and dad dont like it:huh: :huh: :huh: oh well thanx anyway

[DaVinci]

im with Elvain hes right there is no golden rule in modding u mod how u want if no one likes it but u do who cears its what u want no one is putting a gun to someones head to use my mod your mod Elvains mod its just have a go and have fun Elvain your mods great but im back to vanila cos my bro and dad dont like it:huh: :huh: :huh: oh well thanx anyway

No, if i understood Laudan right, he meant, to speak about another mod in a quite negative way is not a gentle way between modders. Well, i'm myself a modder in the Rome-Community, and i'm with Laudan in this question, it is not nice to hear from another modder, if he says this and that is bad in your mod, for sure, and i, as far as i remember didn't see such behaviour in the threads that i read in the Rome Community, but users often bash anything or something from mods, but that's quite normal. Normally Modders work together. Well, however, Elvain and Laudan should shake their hands again ...

Elvain,
you talk about another mod like you would know it and at the same time you say you didn't play it, hmmmm??? Shall i say more? No.

Laudan's last developed mods no. 7 are great in all aspects, and what you critisised above is not true (ie. the AI don't takes 4-5 seige-units, and mostly it takes the catapult, what is in fact an advantage for them), except that Mod Hard is basicly a militaristic mod, but with his last additions (economic mod) the mod has now also some economical changes and challenge, whatever, the military aspects are anyway the most important aspects in KoH, otherwise i could play other games with a central economical point in the gameplay. And, then if the military aspects in a mod are well done as base for the game, then i'm also better able to work on the economical improvements what he now does, and maybe he will work further on these improvements ... however, i like to have a real challenge in a strategy game and Laudan's settings give this to KoH for me, other i could also play "monopoly"-games like ie. ANNO 1502, if i like to play an economical centered game ... sorry, but these are my 2 cents to this theme and not meant as an offence against you :cheers:

EDIT: What i forgot to comment is, that the costs for marshalls in Laudan's are a bit too low for the player, but not for the AI, especially not for the mini-nations, and as long the costs cannot be modded different for the AI and the player, i like thios way, cause also the little factions have a chance to become great in this mod. Furthermore, you can experience with these settings a real "Mod Hard", as i said it earlier. Indeed, i lost some weeks ago as Nicaä so much, that i quitted this game ... cause i didn't see any further chance ... that was a great experience in KoH (btw.: as experienced player).

[Elvain]

It was not me who declared war on Laudan. I, however, offered him my hand and peace, but it is he who doesn't want to accept it.

I have written much longer post (that Laudan can read as he's squire modder) where I longly explain reasons why I wrote what.

I said I dislike mod HARD's militarism, you say that there is stres firstly on military and then - behind the military - economy. I see it as much worse words on account on mod HARD than I have ever used!

Many words were spoken about my mod also from other modders (including the most respected from my POV like Angryminer and Doux) but I never took it personaly like Laudan did. Those words were criticizing my mod that there are rebellions and there are many rebel kingdoms which make the big kingdoms instable. I accepted those words and worked to improve it. Laudan stopped to comunicate with me when I did that :scratch:

I will only repeat my words. I said that when I played one of older versions of mod hard, I had not good experience that discouraged me to try it again. Then I was only searching "data" in his threads like stats and screenshots. You can see it yourself that there are mostly 4 siege units on the screenshots of armies he provides. What to say?

I must disagre with the stress on warfare in KoH. You probably confused it with Total War series. KoH is about balance between economy(at first place), diplomacy(in my POV at second), warfare, espionage, religious policy, "home policy" and historical accurancy. But you may see the positives in something else

Yes, marshalls are too chap(it's what I criticise and IMO it causes disbalance between big kingdoms and small ones. If big kingdom has strong economy, it can afford many marshalls in all other mods. Small kingdom should not afford to have army as big as HolyRomanEmpire, that is what I think and that is the main reason why I am sceptic about MOD HARD.

[Laudan]

You write :

It was not me who declared war on Laudan. I, however, offered him my hand and peace, but it is he who doesn't want to accept it.

This is my answer:

This is your style, Elvain, you cannot stop ,you must say everytime anything. You speak wrong, yes you like to speak wrong ,yes you like it to revolt .

I think you never understood the program of Koh. Sure is ,your mod isnt so good, if you think.

For me is it not a proplem, if you write 1000 of posts ,because in my eyes you falling down allready.

It is very useless to discussing with you, your style is under my line.

I write to you allready , but you want not to stop with uselees words.

[Anguille2]

Elvain, Laudan,

Please settle this....we are already not that many in this forum so everyone calm down. I've used both mods and have enjoyed them equally (see my AAR). Now, take a deep fresh and calm down.

Thanks

Anguille

[Angryminer]

I want to back up Anguille's post. You're currently both not making too sensable posts and there is basically no discussion, merely a rather useless argument. I'd like you both to either stop the argument completely or go back to a more reasonable style of discussion.
That said, I want to say that I'm willing to enforce the end of this argument if you don't end it.

Angryminer

[Mortimer]

I have been following this silenty for the last few days or so and I have to agree with Anguille, and Angryminor.

the fact is you 2 as well as all modders have improoved there gaming experiance with there mods. sure you listen to some feedback and concider them, but what it boils down to is your mod is how you want to play. Then you offer it to others for them to experiance it.

you 2 clearly have a major difference of opinion in how the game can be better, yet neither should be considered bad. there are people who would like the more battle oriented philosohy of Laudan, and and some that will like the more diplomacy and economy style of Elvain.

and in fact the dissagreement is actually better for the community, not the fighting mind you, but the 2 totally different mods. if one of you convinced the other to change your mod like the other's, then why would you need 2 mods?

[DaVinci]

Yes, naturally i'm with the last comments about the issue.

Users are thankful for the modders efforts and hard work on KoH, and it is great that there are different mod-directions available.

It makes not much sense to bring in these emotions into such discussions, but this would probably a part of a team-work for one mod, and then such team members would leave such a common project, if they notice that they have very different views on a mod-design.

So what, skake hands again and say, what's overall the problem?

Well, the problem is, if one modder gives a very non-objective opinion (opposite: subjective personal opinion) about the hard work of the other modder, or only it seems so, that he don't appreciates the work, and that's then really a kind of insult, what i can also really understand, that then emotions are cooking.

But yes, calm down and be :cool: ... it's only a game.

[Angryminer]

So, any more house rules for harder play? Hm?

Angryminer

[Sir Sean]

i like my first one because if you do it well u get in problems with other kingdoms the the hier has to sort it out or...

play like it was a tale your skilled kings give u a properus kingdom the some lossy low star king ruins it making a perfict story tale

but those are my views if u disagry please tell your side of you but dont bite my head off SVP :bowdown:

[Doux]

Here's a list of what I found useful throughout this thread, please comment:

##House rules for harder play

1a. Play honourably and responsibly. If your vassal is under attack, you aid him. The same goes for alliances of course. Kin equals allied!

1b. If Kingdoms betray you, break relations et cetera, don't hesitate to break all relations or declare war.

2a. Marshalls are only elected from the Royal Family.

2b. Knights don't live much longer than the King (up to.. two King's lives?).

3. Never use cheats and tricks that are unrealistic - recalling your royal Knight and having him start right away in another town.

4. Have a Knight in each profession.

5. Don't take bribes for imprisoned captives - instead, kill them or release them, whatever suits your mood.

6. When Catholic, attack Muslims, or Pagans and least likely Orthodox, by Crusading them with your (royal!) Marshall.

7. Never reject a cursade-lead proposal by the Pope.

8. Make war with other religions, not your own.

9. Never ask for peace - it is proposed, or you shall die honourably and by rights.

10. Don't declare wars for nothing. Is your ally under attack - don't hesitate to declare war yourself. An enemy spy is an excellent reason.

11. Kingdompower cannot be bought, it is earned or losed (for certain mods).

12. Use a varied army (elites/infantry/cavalry/...)- never disband a squad. Keep losses as low as possible, use sensible strategies.

13. (...)

___________________________________
===============================

##Advices

* Pick a small kingdom.
* Cheats, no way, obviously.

[Elvain]

I agree with all but 4. as it forces you to play some certain strategy and disallows you to play your own (patialy this goes also for 2a which in fact disables you to use the number of marshals you want). I think the player shuold not be limited in a way "use this and don't use this" when it is not necessary.

Also 1a and 10 are not very corresponding. I prefere 1a, but would put there some note - "wait some time if the ally/vassal/kin asks you to join the war"

[Mortimer]

one thing I always do is make sure that my oldest prince always becomes next in line for the throne, many times there is no choice but my present game I have 3 grown princes and the next in line oly has 5 stars total, the other two are both much better but soon hell be king :)

I also make sure at least one of my armies is led by the king or the oldest prince when he comes of age. I do not like losing an army when the king dies. depending on the size of my territory and how realistic it is I use the king or prince to attack any rebel as long as he does not have to go to the other side of europe or something

[Doux]

1a and 10 should be read as being completely corresponding :smile:
I think the waiting is a good option too.

I don't think I would follow 2b, by the way, that gets too complicated, but I like 2a. It's realistic at least.

About 4 - I'm not sure about that one yet. It's not entirely as I'd want I think. Maybe I'll kick builders/farmers out of the game in my mod.

[Sir Sean]

I use one cheat ONLY :nono:
(i dont know the rest cos i came accross this by accident) :confused:
no fog of war (thats not the cheat)
it more realistic its the same for ai they can see what your doing and in the med age kings would always look on the mapto see where to go next. :go:

also ai is at war with every one my last game as ENGLAND :hello: i stayed at peace and left the computer going evrey now and then bild up then about 24 hours into the game all the big kigdoms had fallen exept france who had a strong army :cheers: (well they died out in just under a 1/4 of an hour *cough* i had some armys who took care of that *cccmmm*):biggrin:

p.s. i dont like how the big king. die out so easly by small one :angry: the big normly got bigger to an other big crushed them :angel: then they were smashed up :scratch: