[EN] Already seeing results of SPAM returning to the regular Game Forums!

[Dobber]

no, the games are not "spam" since it is in the game section, where you're supposed to play games.
Although, many sees this as an oppertunity to spam and create many threads just to raise their post count.

and no, I'm not moving the stats-thread. Just interested to hear what their definition is it by it.

There is a double standard, if the games are not spam, then how are people spamming by posting to them?

And nobody is creating many threads to raise their post count, there are fewer threads in the Games section than in the 1602 section or the KoH section or the Webmaster's Inn or the Technomage section.

There are many replies to the few threads that are there, but no spam by your definition
I even looked up a definition:
"Spam is flooding the Internet with many copies of the same message, in an attempt to force the message on people who would not otherwise choose to receive it."
The threads are not being flooded by many copies of the same message, every reply is different, the rules of the games require that there be no repetition. Thus thete is no opportunity to spam to raise your post count as you stated above.

[RoadRunner]

My problem is with a Moderator for that forum that seems to think that those posts are of more value than the posts in the off-topic section. He has expressed that posts in the off-topic section should not be counted because they would dilute the value of post counts for those seeking help in the forums.
Did I really say that? Or wasn't it rather Elvain who interpreted the disabling of the post counter for the off topic section in that way? :wink:

You state here that your birthday threads were the only off-topic thread that was allowed on your old board after you lost your off-topic areas. Here you/we have not lost your/our off-topic areas, Webmaster's Inn was/is a part of your/our 1602 community, what is the problem with posting your birthday wishes in it like everybody else on the boards has to do? See the double standard that has been created.
There was a time when we had an off topic section even at the old board for both the TechnoMage and the Anno 1602 boards. But birthday threads were never a part of those offtopic sections. :wink:

[Elvain]

sorry to all members on Anno1602 forums. I tried to apologise, state my opinion and offer a hand for peace. But since you haven't accepted it you can be sure I won't bother you with my existence anymore.

I thought your forum has much higher level...

Dobber is right and if you are so silly that you haven't got it yet, I have nothing to tell you.
There was a time when we had an off topic section even at the old board for both the TechnoMage and the Anno 1602 boards. But birthday threads were never a part of those offtopic sections. :wink:
oh KoH members pull off in many cases to make joining of both or all 3 communities, we have lost our separate off topic section with our birthday wishes and we accepted it as a fact. Some of you told us that we cry for our old forums how good it was etc. now you do the same, but do not accept that your forum has changed...

And if I'm minded that much I can pull off to games section and KoH forums only.
Sorry that I was honest and was against inequality you have made to rule here.

[Helen]

There is a double standard, if the games are not spam, then how are people spamming by posting to them?


Sorry, I should have chosen another word for that - I meant the games section is a place where it's not spam, though many take advantage of that section to increase their postcount. I did not mean to say spam.



YOU posted some definition of SPAM. YOU fight against SPAM while YOU post something that fits to your definition of spam. How could it be interpreted?
When you fight against something you call SPAM and simultaneously post something that fits to your definition of spam, don't be curious that somebody uses it against you.


what have I posted that fits into the spam-definition? :scratch:

[RoadRunner]

@Elvain: Maybe you misunderstood me - or I misunderstood you. All I wanted to say was that I did was I was used to do. I never got a binding advice that birthday threads should be only posted in the relevant thread of the off topic section. I also stated that I am prepared to change my habit (but - forgive me - only my own habit) in this question.

I am very sorry that this discussion is held with so much emotions, but you certainly understand that I want to express my point of view if someone states that I am only interested in pushing up my post counter. Should I have offended someone during this discussion, I would like to apologize for that.

[Elvain]

I am very sorry that this discussion is held with so much emotions, but you certainly understand that I want to express my point of view if someone states that I am only interested in pushing up my post counter. Should I have offended someone during this discussion, I would like to apologize for that.
I understand but nobody said that.

We, Dobber and I, do only one thing: We don't want to accept double standard. You know that reason of Dobber's post was to point this out, not to attack you from anything.

but I am fan of BSS and their game (harmed by Sunflowers). I will stay at this game sections and don't bother you here. I will do what Frujin does... watch the game I like(even if the forum was killed) and leave Sunflowers and their forum to them and their fans.

Our habits (like playing word games) from old KoH forums were not accepted by you from Anno and Technomage forums, we got separated gaming section not to bother you. If it is still not enough and you mind that we have more posts than you because your forums joined our and not oposite, I AM CHANGING MY VOTE to the way you like:

COUNT ALL POSTS BUT GAMING SECTION occupied mostly by KoH forumers. I wouldn't even mind if the counter is disabled in KoH forums....
have better time here :go:

PS: there was still no clear official statement from Sunflowers WHY all this disabling post counts.
Sunflowers can't afford to keep an exe on so large forums? so they want to kick some members out but they don't have the courage to do it directly and lose customers, so they use this way? I guess that is the reason and I will think it untill I will see some oficial statement.

[Dobber]

I never expected such an emotional debate about birthday wishes... :silly: And I fear that I will never be able to understand the role that plays the postcounter for you. I used to post if I had something to say, and not to get more posts. There are threads where I have the impression that they are only made to get more posts (and for me - but that is my personal view - they are mainly in the game section), but you will hardly find anything from me there.

Up to now, I considered birthday threads as a normal part of the game sections, irrespective if those postings are counted or not. And I would be glad if that could stay so - as the other Anno and TechnoMage board members already stated, this has always been a nice tradition in our (old) board.

What are we speaking about? - From November 2004 up to now, there were 5 birthday threads with total 59 posts in the Anno section. Eight of them were posted after the offtopic post counter was disabled. I had a total of 6 posts in them - one was a reply to Dobber.

@Dobber: I am very sorry, but I saw this thread only after I read your remarks in the thread you mentioned. That's why I pushed my post counter even higher by replying there and not only here... But honestly speaking, I was a bit confused that you posted in a birthday thread without congratulating. :wink:

The debate has absolutely nothing to do with the birthday thread other than it was the vehicle used for the debate. The debate stemmed from this statement in the postcount thread, particularly the part I place in bold lettering.
I don't understand the problem you have with disabling the post cont for off topics. This board is about games, and off-topic is an additional service. So, I think it is fair if the posts in the off topic section are not counted - just because they are off topic.

Also, I do not think that Angryminer's argument (number of posts as an indicator of the reliability of a poster) is "lame". In most (not in all) cases, the post count can be a good indicator - and I see no other possibilty to create another indicator (I know that some boards allow a rating of a post or poster, but that is often falsified by others who give poor ratings just because they do not like someone).

BTW this is not the only board where off topics posts are not counted...
Part of your argument against the counting of posts in the off-topic section was that this board is about games. By your own argument you stated that the boards existed for the sole purpose of discussing the games and then turned around and posted in the game forum a post that was not about the game. I turned your argument around on you to make a point. That post was important to you, it is important to LegolasD, it is important to all those that join in with you in wishing him Happy Birthday, it is important to you that I did not join in with you incon gratulations. It also is important to me, because it is a sincere expression from a forum member to another forum member. Also each person that has posted in the off-topic section of the board feels that their post was/is important also, I feel that their post is important also, because it is a sincere expression from one member to another. By your argument you reduced them to just an additional sevice, nothing of importance, they don't matter, the forum just exists for game discussion. That is so sad! We exist because we are a community of people that are important to each other, we come here because we are gamers, gamers that enjoy 1602, Technomage, Knights of Honor and 1503(eventhough that forum is not officially located here). Most of us do not come here just to discuss the games, most of us are veteran gamers in these games. We come here to be with each other and to have fun with each other, and if we can assist someone with a game problem along the way that's great.

The post counts don't matter to me, it is the loss of community members that the post count action has resulted in that bothers me. People that were/are important to me and were/are important to others. Many of you may never understand that. I am from the US and the only contact I will ever have with Europeans is through this forum and the ANNO 1503 forum. I have learned much from my friends here , much more from them than they have from me. They create a desire within me to visit Europe, to visit the places they talk about, to somehow, someday meet them. Eventhough i've known none of them longer than 18 months, I feel we've been friends longer, and it hurts me to see them leave. And all because someone feels the off-topic posts are noy important.

[Dobber]

Did I really say that? Or wasn't it rather Elvain who interpreted the disabling of the post counter for the off topic section in that way? :wink:


I may have attributed something to you that maybe wasn't your statement, but I was thinking it was in a statement you made. I cannot go back to it to check now because the thread has been deleted. It could have possibly been another Moderator that made that comment. So if I have attributed that to you mistakenly, I apologize.

[mamayourpeoplearehungry]

The debate has absolutely nothing to do with the birthday thread other than it was the vehicle used for the debate. The debate stemmed from this statement in the postcount thread, particularly the part I place in bold lettering.

You attacked a part of a small community based on a great game to prove that post counts are important. You attacked a type of thread that at one point was being deleted by sunflowers as off topic. After they closed our off topic board they also started to delete our posts that they considered off topic in the game board including the birthday wishes. We argued to keep them. I will continue to argue to keep them here and to keep you from using them to suit your agenda.
:angry:

[RoadRunner]

*sigh*

@Dobber: Counting a post or not is not an indicator of the worthiness of it.

And yes, I appreciate that we have an offtopic section here. And I voted for the disabling of the post counter right after the suggestion came up the very first time as this would be a very good argument for keeping the off topics here. If you do not like my arguments, ask others about their impressions - but I have the feeling that with the next game release, things will change here. It is not of importance if the Paraworld board will be integrated here or not, but it is for sure that with that board, the focus (and the goodwill from Sunflowers) will change to Paraworld. If you like to sail with all sails set into a storm or uncertain water - well, do it. I'd prefer to shorten them as long as there is time for doing that.

Concerning the offtopic handling in the Anno and TM boards: I am aware that it is probably different from the KoH boards. And it is the same as it was in our old boards. If you like that, you are welcome to discuss these great games there, and even enjoy the one or other offtopic remark if it is made.

Oh, BTW neither I nor someone else from the Anno or TechnoMage board has something to do with the fate of the game threads; at least I do not know about that. So, if you have different information about that, I would be curious to hear that... I admit that sometimes I expressed my surprise that such threads are possible here (and that my opinion differs from yours, for instance), but I never suggested to change the policy towards them.

[Dobber]

You attacked a part of a small community based on a great game to prove that post counts are important. You attacked a type of thread that at one point was being deleted by sunflowers as off topic. After they closed our off topic board they also started to delete our posts that they considered off topic in the game board including the birthday wishes. We argued to keep them. I will continue to argue to keep them here and to keep you from using them to suit your agenda.
:angry:

Mama, I have already apologized to RoadRunner and to the 1602 community at the thread there. Frieden and some others have already accepted my apology, if you cannot accept it then I only feel sorry for you.

Also what you describe above happened to us at the 1503 board, only we didn't get to keep the birthday threads there at all. I am seeing the same thing happening here and I am fighting against it, because I do not want to lose a bunch of friends once again because of it.

And I am truly sorry I chose the 1602 forum from which to start my argument, I am an avid fan of 1602, I have been playing it for 5 years now, I just never found it's forum until about the time I discovered the KoH forum. I have participated in the 1602 discussions and will continue to do so. I am one of the few that was here when intigration took place that has participated in the 1602 section. I enjoy designing islands using Sir Henry's editor as much as playing the game and I have uploaded some 10 or 12 islands to the Annopool. Terry has even used one of my islands in a scenaro he created. I even plan to participate in the upcoming Easter contest considering I can find time to make a worthy attempt at it. I am dedicated to this whole forum, not just one section. I would even try Technomage if I could understand it, but it appears that is entirely a German product.

Mama, you have been where I am, when you were fighting for what you believed in at the old 1602 board. My only regret it that I upset my friends at the 1602 forum. :peace:

[Webmaster]

PS: there was still no clear official statement from Sunflowers WHY all this disabling post counts.
Sunflowers can't afford to keep an exe on so large forums? so they want to kick some members out but they don't have the courage to do it directly and lose customers, so they use this way? I guess that is the reason and I will think it untill I will see some oficial statement.

coz i decided it. the idea behind was not to reward postings in the offtopic section. so people post there for fun not for the postcounter. and most people don't even car for the postcounter.

but maybe you have overread the reactivation of the post counter in the webmaster's inn.

there is no official supremacy behind it !!! and hey, you people can argue with me and i can change things. so there is no need to be angry. if some mod, smod or even me makes an error, coz we are all humans, tell me and we can look together what is better for the sake of the people here in the board.

so be glad that i am tolerant and your advocate within sunflowers. without me some things wouldn't have happend. ok, sometimes i have to follow orders from my superiors but i try to help making this a enjoyable place.

for me it's fine to have post counting everywhere without the offtopic games area.

[Dobber]

Webmaster, will you close this thread? The discussion is over and does not need to be revived.