What's the "ideal" game

[Carcassone]

I'm sure many of us on the board are in the same boat as it comes to wanting an "ideal" castle/medieval game. I personally have always been intrigued by the period and my interest was peaked after spending a fair share of time in France.

My first castle game was LoTR. Although the game kept my interest it just wasn't what i was looking for, it lacked personal touch in the sense that castles were from one mold. But the ownership of counties was a nice touch and helped with the sense of kingdom quests

Then I played the Age of Kings series and although enjoyable, until my wife started whooping me up each and every time, the game didn't bring the castle and realm management I've always looked for. Walls were uniform and the games emphasis was on rushing...blah, the worst thing for most RTS gamers to hear.

Then came Stronghold. The game allowed me to build castle structures how I wanted them built. Eventhough all the castle structures a medieval nut would want weren't there, still an entertaining game. The biggest gripe invovled the map sizes...ugh much too small. And of course, the overall feeling of conquering a "world" or collection of counties didn't exist.

When I saw KoH I was a little negative because i had been let down too many times. However, after the posts i've read from our moderators and various information it seems to me that KoH may very well be the game I've always wanted and that I've been waiting to play now for almost 10 years.

I've always wanted a game where castles could be constructed with a personal touch. Additionally, I've always wanted a game that used diplomacy as well as brute force, give gamers options for aggression. I've always felt that games that were based upon generating the most units the fastest was more a race than a test of a gamers strategic abilities. Let's face it, any monkey can click fast. I have a lot of other ideas, but let's be honest if my post were any longer no one will read it.

Does anyone else share the same feelings, thoughts?

[Huwie]

Yeah, I feel pretty much the same way you do (although I'd never let my girlfriend defeat me at a game - shame on you!).

I enjoyed Stronghold Crusader immensely at first, but like you I was eventually put off by the ridiculously small maps. As you say, it eventually descended into a clickfest.

KoH is looking stunning. It looks like the devs have covered pretty much everything, and I really have no questions to ask of them at the moment because they've all been answered. I have high hopes for this one.

[Carcassone]

Well, I really never did let my wife beat me at the game. She was just so quick with the shortcuts, mouse clicks, etc...that it became a no contest. In fact, my buddy and I couldn't win 2 versus 1. To be honest I'm not that bad of player either. The funny thing is that in Stronghold it's the exact opposite. She has no prayer when I play her.

Let's hope that KoH is the game we've both been waiting for.

[Angel Sulis]

Interesting thread, Carcassone.

Naturally, I can't/won't comment on the points raised about Stronghold, as i'm sure you'll understand! However, the ideal game for me would combine the best elements of an already well established and followed genre. The ability to build castles, fortifications, defended cities, villages, hill-forts, etc etc, whilst maintaining the 'activity' you could expect within would be a good starting point. Economic management would be high on the list too. Maybe not as intense as, say, the citybuilder games, but significant nonetheless. Combined to this would be trade, diplomacy, a good sized allowance for units (ensuring accurate army portrayal) and an intelligent AI system that learns as you play. The last part is a bit vague, granted! Oh, and without a shadow of a doubt... historical accuracy, as much as the game will allow without gameplay suffering.

That said, I am looking forward to KoH a great deal :)

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Carcassone
I'm sure many of us on the board are in the same boat as it comes to wanting an "ideal" castle/medieval game. I personally have always been intrigued by the period and my interest was peaked after spending a fair share of time in France.

My first castle game was LoTR. Although the game kept my interest it just wasn't what i was looking for, it lacked personal touch in the sense that castles were from one mold. But the ownership of counties was a nice touch and helped with the sense of kingdom quests

Then I played the Age of Kings series and although enjoyable, until my wife started whooping me up each and every time, the game didn't bring the castle and realm management I've always looked for. Walls were uniform and the games emphasis was on rushing...blah, the worst thing for most RTS gamers to hear.

Then came Stronghold. The game allowed me to build castle structures how I wanted them built. Eventhough all the castle structures a medieval nut would want weren't there, still an entertaining game. The biggest gripe invovled the map sizes...ugh much too small. And of course, the overall feeling of conquering a "world" or collection of counties didn't exist.

When I saw KoH I was a little negative because i had been let down too many times. However, after the posts i've read from our moderators and various information it seems to me that KoH may very well be the game I've always wanted and that I've been waiting to play now for almost 10 years.

I've always wanted a game where castles could be constructed with a personal touch. Additionally, I've always wanted a game that used diplomacy as well as brute force, give gamers options for aggression. I've always felt that games that were based upon generating the most units the fastest was more a race than a test of a gamers strategic abilities. Let's face it, any monkey can click fast. I have a lot of other ideas, but let's be honest if my post were any longer no one will read it.

Does anyone else share the same feelings, thoughts?

Yep!
No doubt about it! Nice said too!:go:

[Carcassone]

Originally posted by Angel Sulis
Interesting thread, Carcassone.

Naturally, I can't/won't comment on the points raised about Stronghold, as i'm sure you'll understand! However, the ideal game for me would combine the best elements of an already well established and followed genre. The ability to build castles, fortifications, defended cities, villages, hill-forts, etc etc, whilst maintaining the 'activity' you could expect within would be a good starting point. Economic management would be high on the list too. Maybe not as intense as, say, the citybuilder games, but significant nonetheless. Combined to this would be trade, diplomacy, a good sized allowance for units (ensuring accurate army portrayal) and an intelligent AI system that learns as you play. The last part is a bit vague, granted! Oh, and without a shadow of a doubt... historical accuracy, as much as the game will allow without gameplay suffering.

That said, I am looking forward to KoH a great deal :)

Angel, you added greatly to the thread. It sounds like you're looking for a similar multi faceted game as well. I had such great hopes for Stronghold, yes I still play it, but there was something left desired; naturally however, there are always things desired.

I agree that the economic managemnt is a necessary inclusion to any RTS game, and yes abo****ely it shouldn't be so refined as be an annoying task. This is the main reason why KoH has drawn me in...I really am looking forward to the high level management of a kingdom.

I also agree with the historical accuracy and mush as anything included into the game. As in another post that is thee one reason I neglected to buy AoM, it just wasn't my historically accurate cup of tee.

btw, I've seen your work on heavengames...great job. Will you be including KoH?

[Angel Sulis]

Will you be including KoH?

No idea, Carcassone. I'm intrigued, certainly! Keeping an eye on the development... ;)

[Pikeman]

I always had a clear imagination of my "perfect" MRTS, and this seems to be it: The perfect mixture of M:TW and Stronghold. With MTW, the battles were absolutely brilliant, but the game wasn't much more than that. Stronghold contained (most of) the castle designing/running/defending/attacking scene, which I enjoyed immensely. The game was restricted to castles, though, and that got a bit boring after a while. This game seems to contain aspects of both of those games, and much, much more! The very first "perfect" MRTS is on the way! :cheers:

[Henrik]

my ideal medieval game would be KoHwith a 3D landscape - like Medievallords (http://www.medievallords.com/index.php) - it would be nice to watch peasants harvest their crops and that the seasons change - so i really hope the devs will consider this when they make KoH2

[HappyAdolf]

KoH ofcourse!
Until now my favourites are still Stronghold and AoE2. I too like MTW. But KoH will be ultimate!!

[thorpemark]

I want to lock the creators of Rome:Total War, Knights of Honor and Crusader Kings in a.. well.. a nice place to live and develop... and not let them out until they emerge witht he perfect game.

[Alex Poff]

StrongHold 2, which is supposed to be released in 2005, looks like it has some great potential.

I would love a medieval game that expertly combines castle building, economic and diplomatic and society growth/morale elements that are greatly evolved and require rigourous management, as well as the obvious military underpinnings to make a total, complete game.

Multiple ways to win would be nice. For example, you might require a certain "level" or combination of wealth, morale, territory and/or military might to win, but you could achieve the total score by focusing on whichever area or areas you feel most comfortable with. If you prefer to be a peaceful Lord, for example, you could concentrate on developing your people's economy, advancing their levels of morale and technological advancement and building a strong castle for defensive purposes, while maintaining an adequate defensive force to protect what is yours from attack. If you were able to do so, holding off territory grabbing bad guys who are choosing an expansionist route to victory at the expense of the happiness and growth of their own people, then you could win, but it would be a matter of who gets to the "total" score 1st that decides it, but the option would be in the multiple paths to victory that would be fun.