View Full Version : pop cap?
Reborn_terror
15-11-2005, 22:52
any clue as to population cap? since a bfme fan i like the freedom but like more individual unit control but what good will that be if you have a small pop cap? judging by the screens it looks like a decent amount but...will unit costs on pop cap work well with other unit pop costs. like brachio catapult looks great but..what good would it be if having like 4 of them uses so much pop that it sacrafices the defensive units to protect them? thx
well in case of the dustriders, you can turn a brachio catapult into a clos combat brachio, as the dustriders can convert one unit into another, it just takes some time...
I liked the 200 people pop cap. I hate economing on workers. No, I loathe it.
but what good will that be if you have a small pop cap?
The key is that you have to manage your unis more carefully. Promoting them, healing them or adapting them to the battle situation as Neox mentioned. And while does seem to indicate a larger amount of micromanagement at first, it's being more than compensated by the interface.
I liked the 200 people pop cap.
You're certainly not the only person with that preference. I can tell you though that all the people who got to play the game so far quickly realize why the smaller pop cap totally makes sense for it considering what the intentions and the accessibility of it are.
marine(NL)
16-11-2005, 14:23
Is every unit 1 pop or some units 2 others 5 and the titan even 10 (or something like that)?
I hope they are all 1 becose otherwise you can just have a few units!
every units takes one slot in the army controller, which is divided into 5 levels, but you'll have less slots with every level, 25 on level 1, 15 on 2 , 8 on 3, 3 on level 4 and 1 on level 5... there are units that can be built from level 1 on, but others that can only be built on 4, so you'll only have the chance to have 4 of those units
marine(NL)
16-11-2005, 19:36
Ok, sounds good! :go:
Reborn_terror
16-11-2005, 20:59
WHEW i was worried that just having workers would take away needed units from other catagories as in low pop lvl games. i like micromanaging to an extent so sounds great
Well, if there will be 25 taken by workers where will I get m army... Why I don't like low pop is because you have to limit yourself to workers. Aoe has a regulatory limit, and setting it to 100 or 200 doesn't make the game bundly. YOu can make a mass game without that. I like regulative limit somewhat - it is preferable to play 100 pop in AoE II on low PC, and you can raize it to 200 later. But it ****ed that you have to economy units. Like I can't put archers in towers in AoE because they eat too much pop. Your system also sounds like it's a limit to a level. like you can build only three triceratops in all? Do I get it right, or it's just my English knowledge? That wouldn't be good. I just think that 3 dinosaurs on a battlefield is too little, there is really no tactics with such a small number... It is more challenging with moderate number. AoE campaigns with 75 limit weren't at all bad. But here overall you can build 40 units minus peasants, virtualy no one. So then you are blocked off by number of strong units - only 5 triceratops and 3 archers and 5 norsewarriors... With such numbers, it looks more like an RPG...
you definitely got it right, that you can only build a few big units, in case of the triceratops or t-rex you can "only" build 4 of them max, but those units are really big, 4 of them nearly takes one full screen, they are not like the catapults in age, they are way bigger you can build a lot of dinosaurs from level 3 on and also a lot in Age 2 and a few in Age 1, so there won't be just a few dinosaurs in the battlefield ;)
in case of the workers, well you can upgrade your workers with every epoch, so they can carry more ressources and gather them faster, so in the end you won't need too many workers...
oh and you would be surprised how much tactits can be possible with "such a small number" gathering skulls and upgrading your units with the army controller gives you a whole new depth of tactics ;)
Really? Well, you know, in AoE gold ended sooner or later. You had to make over 50 peasants to gather wood and sell it... Upgrades - there are upgrades in every game, but I don't remember one which had no lack of resources.
I don't mind big units, but this seems to be like warlords battlecry. Edpecially with the titan idea, right from warlords. If you had a limit on certain units only, but here you can build only as the devs told you. Where is the tactic? You can just build 3 triceraptors, tyranasaurs, and not bother with lower units because there is no limit left. I think that there should be either a major pop limit, or your kind of limit without the major one. Because building triceraptor like this will be a must. Take up the screen - are you serious? DON'T make the camera like Stronghold, we have to see not only the dinos, but the battlefield too! As much view as possible! Of course, the possibility to examine your dinos is very good but there is also playability... Smaller and compact GUI, big screen, etc.
Also, is one unit visible on top of another? YOu ca barely make out units out of a mass of fighting in WBIII.
Skills - I hated the skills in WarIII and LotR. Why I liked AoE it was about right units and the rock-scizzors-paper system and army managment(formations, behaviour, etc), not how agile are you with the mouse button. Units of large sizes create "mass effect" of most strategies today. Especially when they are made incredibly slow. And incrediably powerful. It makes no sense to make other units if you have those levels... Titan will krill all, someone below him will kill everybody but titan, and so on, so there is the mass effect again, people don't need to think much... In AoE I always had to adjust to the civilizations I got, and evaluate between what I have, like if I'm fighting with a lot of infantry, I can make cataphracts if I'm byzantine, or archers if I'm british, or just a bunch of teutonic knights, then there are more groups, - if comp starts making archers, I'm better back off with teutonic and make them protect siege onagers, then enemy knights can come, so you had to put your teutonic more carefully because they are pretty slow.
And slow production of anything is annoying! VERY ANNOYING!
ANd for the skulls and stuff. One of the few good thing in WBIII was the experience gain by regular units, and then you got this veteran stock, you could carry them between levels... Including custom play. In the end I ahd two minotaur lords that helped a lot. They died in the end, though. But unit upgrades - OK, a unit fights better, what new tactic it gives?
And if there is unit exp, are there critters/neutrals?
I'm not bashing your game, but I just became interested in the dinosaur idea, and it will really dissapointing if this is another mass game. But Germans tend to make great games lately - Gothic for instance...
Where is the tactic?
It simply depends on what kind of setup you're going for. Sure you can build titans. But they're expensive and it takes some time to produce them. Also, they can be promoted only once. Smaller units are cheaper and you can push them out faster. And depending on their initial rank they can be promoted three or four times. And I'm not even talking about heroes here which feature additional special moves, add a new element to the techtree and a global bonus upon reaching certain levels.
Smaller and compact GUI, big screen, etc.
The UI is as slim as possible. ;)
not how agile are you with the mouse button
You know, thanks to the AC and the overall interface and shortcut approach it's possible to trigger every function in a very simple way. For instance, it's possible to access special moves no matter how many units you have selected.
AoE and Paraworld are different beasts. Paraworld has more focus on battle and a faster pace. It's intended to be that way. If it doesn't meet your preference, well, then it doesn't. But it's designed to be that way and its interface is designed to make everything as efficient as possible.
Also, is one unit visible on top of another?
Flatshading... not to mention the fact that every single unit can be accessed via AC anyway any given moment no matter where it is.
And if there is unit exp, are there critters/neutrals?
Yes, there are dino and mammal herds with specific behaviours.
Reborn_terror
17-11-2005, 07:53
Im nervous that army set ups will become tedious and when a multiplayer game goes on 4 so long...u can expect 4 of these 3 of those n so forth. it limits the creativity to a standard. its great to use fewer units, more intensly focused but...limiting which u can build might prove an annoyance when seeking a more varied army with such few units. Sounds good in theory but could possibly limit replay value. it seems like all gamers will simply max there lvl on the best units they can...like o im this lvl so ill immediatly build 4 of these since theyre best. i hate when armies lose creativity over multiplayer n it seems that this might happen. esspecialy with dustriders popularity.everyone might just follow a specific army that works the best.
To Julian - I don't have such thing as prefference, I usually don't care what genre and type the game is, it is just that AoE and Starcraft are the best strategies in my opinion. Fast gameplay isn't equel to mass effect, it is just hard to create to not turn into one. Sometimes a unit can just run out of control...
About one unit on top of another - because of 3D, sometimes a big unit covers someone behind him...
Speaking of replayability - is there a random map? I asked this question before, but I'm not sure it was answered in detail...
AC - skipped that abbreviation somewhere, what is it?
Well you'll have counter units to every unit, even to titans, titans can only be built 4 times (and you should remember that having titans on the last 4 AC Slots won't give you any special units or tribe addons like heroes do) while the counterunits which may be built in Level 3 can be built up to 14 times.
Having these limititation definitely makes you think more about your army, and you need to be creative with the slots you have, like:
Do you really have the ressources to build 4 titans? What is if the enemy wins the next battle? There won't be more titans on your side, building new ones will take time, your ressources will be dumped and your opponent will know that... oh and the titans of every tribe are made with special "interessts", the dustriders t-rex is made for close combat, what if the enemy knows that and attacks him from far away?
Remember you can counter any unit with another one or with a group of counter units and depending on how many skulls you have, you could win the fight with some smaller units, just by promoting them to the next level... while promoting a titan to level 5 takes (now, this can be changed) 300 skulls, the promoting of of some battle rhinos takes only 100, so you can promote 3 beasts instead of one, which gives you 3 times more HP if you do it right...
Having less pop limit definitiely won't make the player be less creative, contrariwise you have to be more creative with the small amount of slots you have... it won't be possible (as in some other games) to do a "tank-rush" (or titan rush) because you just can't build so many of them to rush over a good enemy...
Now you'll be crying for masses of units but if your enemy comes with masses of titans you will be crying for a limitation of that...
Now to the dustriders, you haven't seen any of the units right now, how can you think of someone just playing only one type of AC constellation, we've got a big variety of cool units, fast but low armoured carnivores, slow but heavy armored sauropods, herbivores in the middle of those too. And there are also a lot of interessting infantry units too, that can be promoted to level 5, a level 1 norse warrior won't be such a great unit but promoting him to level 5 will make him smash through the infantry of you enemy like it is nothing...
to Eidolon: AC = Army Controller
and no there are no random maps, there will be a bunch of multiplayerlevels and there will come more, as PW is planned to be mod friendly, i guess there will come more maps afterwards
Well, all this sounds very interesting and, in fact, quite original, let's just hope you'll implement it right! I suppose exp plays a very important role in the game then... :wink:
Player maps are not always good. A lot of fuss, in fact. With RM you can just make a map and play. I'm talking about single player, I don't play MP. RM = replayability, and that is one of the most important aspects of a strategy... Starcraft and such has a lot of maps, that saves it.
skulls do, there is no unique exp so you don't have to care for every single unit, you will gather skulls with every kill (enemies more then "critters") you can promote any unit with these skulls, no matter who gathered it. And you'll have to gather skulls to have a chance in fights... promoting one unit to another level not only costs skulls it will heal him and even give him more HP and attackpower, so you'll have to chose wisely which unit you will be promoting next ;)
And tribes like the Dustriders even need the skulls to get to the next epoch, having single experience would destroy the idea of having a total offensive tribe.
Reborn_terror
17-11-2005, 20:49
wow sounds rly good...i enjoy lvl selected units n letting them power through enemies...and if theyre weakness arives on the field...pull em out n mass with other units. would the lvl up also effect titans as well. bc that to me would b one of the most intimadating things ever. even if i had a titans weakness on hand they could play smart n pull out when they notice it. this gives a greater layer of strategy and i think a high lvl n fast creature could essentialy cripple anything with hit n runs
would the lvl up also effect titans as well.
Yes, you can level them up as well. Due to the nature of it, they, however, can only be promoted once.
Will skulls come quickly or slowly? Sometimes in games with stuff like that you get so many of them you don't have time to do whatever you needed to.
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