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Karl Erfurt
22-04-2004, 11:50
I would like to share with you the following essay. I am interested in any comments, suggestions, critiques, etc. that the forum members here would like to make. Essay length is 1364 words.

I wrote the original version of this essay about a year ago for my younger brother, who was taking an online English course in college at the time. The purpose of the essay was to define the words ignorance and stupidity, and explain the difference between these two terms. This little exercise turned out to be one of the most enjoyable experiences that I have ever had with writing, which is part of the reason that I am sharing it with you here.

I am also interested in finding out whether or not there is ANY kind of market for an essay such as this. I have been considering the idea of becoming a freelance writer for the past few years, but I have never taken the “big plunge” of submitting any of my writing for publication or even critical review (college professors excepted). Also, most of my actual writing experience has been limited to these kinds of academic style term papers or essays. I have never attempted to write short stories or fiction novels, for example. Should I try to branch out into other genres of writing first, or might there be enough of a market for these kinds of essays?
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Ignorance vs. Stupidity: Yes, There Is A Difference

Many people seem to think that there is really no difference between the words ignorance and stupidity. In fact, people will frequently use these words (or their derivative forms) interchangeably. For example, I have often heard people say things like, “Those redneck hillbilly people are just dumb, ignorant, and stupid.” However, these two words actually represent very different concepts. While browsing through a discussion forum, I saw an anonymous quote that seemed to summarize the difference between these two words very nicely: “Ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is knowing and doing it anyway.” In other words, ignorance has to do with a simple lack of knowledge or education, but stupidity results when a person already possesses the necessary knowledge, yet continues to engage in behaviors that are patently illogical.

Although the phenomenon of ignorance is still widespread today, it was even more common in medieval times. Some well-known examples of medieval ignorance include the belief that the earth is flat or the belief in (or fear of) witches and witchcraft. There was also much ignorance about subjects such as women, sexuality, and childbirth. In the early medieval period (400-1000 AD), many Europeans believed that the cycles of the moon were somehow connected to women’s menstrual cycles (possibly because both cycles are approximately one month in duration), and that women were “creatures of the night” who derived their powers from the moon. This little tidbit of ignorance would produce interesting results whenever there was a lunar eclipse. When the image of the moon became obscured in this way, people believed that women would lose their sexual powers, and be rendered unable to bear children. Although the idea of women being temporarily unable to bear children may seem appealing to some of us in the modern world who live in overpopulated areas, this was not seen as a favorable situation in the medieval world. This is because most families tried to have as many children as possible due to the relatively high death rates from disease, violence, malnutrition, and the like. Thus lunar eclipses were often feared. Such fears were the symptoms of ignorance.

One particularly humorous example of early medieval ignorance comes from a book that I read some six years ago entitled A History of Private Life: From Pagan Rome to Byzantium. With regard to the much-ballyhooed sexual powers of women, authors Phillipe Aries and Georges Duby noted, “A woman who wished to cause impotence undressed, covered herself with honey, and rolled around on a pile of wheat. The grains were then carefully removed, placed in a hand mill, and ground by turning the handle clockwise rather than the normal counterclockwise. With the flour thus produced, the woman baked a bread which she gave to the man she wished to ‘castrate’. Since the flour had been milled in the wrong direction, the stimulating effects of nudity and honey were nullified and the man was unsexed. If, however, the flour was milled normally and the dough kneaded between the woman’s thighs (that is, on her genitals), the result was the opposite; bread baked with this dough could be used to arouse desire in a woman’s husband or a man she wished to seduce.” While this sort of ignorance may seem humorous to a modern audience (I laughed so hard that I nearly fell out of bed when I first read this), it often produced irrational fears of women in the minds of medieval men, resulting in a kind of shrill misogyny that persisted in the forms of unfair double standards against women. Unfortunately, many of these double standards were codified in both secular and Church laws. It was not until several centuries later that the first feminists of the modern era could begin to repair the injustices that were caused by this form of ignorance.

In contrast to simple ignorance, stupidity occurs when people have a sufficient supply of knowledge, yet persist in doing things that are irrational or even dangerous, and that are often contrary to their own interests. Stupidity usually originates from extreme stubbornness, force of habit, or false rationalizations made by people who simply refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. One form of stupidity that I have noticed occurs when teenagers or young adults continue to have promiscuous sexual encounters, often without using any form of birth control, even though they have been told over and over again that their actions could have deleterious consequences such as pregnancy, venereal diseases, unnecessary abortions, or children that they are not really equipped to raise, at least not without causing much unwelcome stress for other people in their lives. Interestingly, when presented with facts and logic, many of these same people will become offended or even look down upon those of us who have managed to remain celibate in our younger years, especially when they realize that we may not have as much sympathy for them as they would like.

Driving while intoxicated is a particularly dangerous case of stupidity. In spite of the barrage of ad campaigns that we have endured since the 1980’s, many people continue to think that the rules of logic do not apply to them, and persist in attempting to operate motor vehicles even though their judgment and physical capabilities have been seriously impaired by alcohol or other drugs. This kind of stupidity can be very dangerous because innocent people can be injured or killed if an intoxicated driver should cause an accident. Fortunately, since the public awareness campaigns began, alcohol-related traffic deaths have declined somewhat, although they are still a significant cause of death for young people in the United States.

The terrorists who carried out the 9/11 attacks could be seen as displaying an extreme example of stupidity. Killing innocent people in this manner has arguably done much harm to the reputation of their professed Islamic faith (at least in the Western countries), and it has further perpetuated the cycles of war and violence in the Middle East. Although the attackers seemed to think that they were martyrs, the consequences of their actions are almost certainly detrimental to their cause. Whether Allah will ever see fit to forgive them for their illogical behavior will probably never be known.

In the United States, cigarette smoking is arguably one of the most common examples of stupidity. Radio talk show host Neal Boortz has often stated flatly, “Smokers are stupid.” He regularly castigates smokers who call in to his radio show, and many of them become offended when he challenges their behavior. But he does seem to have a point. Deaths from smoking-related illnesses such as lung cancer and emphysema have been among the leading causes of death in America for the past several decades. Furthermore, unlike many other habits, there do not seem to be any redeeming qualities or benefits to smoking that could offset the health risks. However, before the 1960’s, smokers could be seen as suffering more from ignorance than stupidity, because the true health dangers of smoking were not known at the time. In fact, smoking was often portrayed as glamorous and was perceived as being much more socially acceptable than it is today. Still, for the legions of smokers who have started smoking after they already knew of its true consequences, one could seriously question the logic of their behavior.

Both ignorance and stupidity are conditions that have been with us since the beginning of humanity, and many people have sought to alleviate their most damaging effects. Of the two, ignorance is probably the easiest one to “cure”. Stamping out ignorance can be accomplished by efforts such as disseminating more knowledge and making sure that our children receive a good education. Stupidity, however, is a more pernicious beast because eradicating it often requires people to break old habits, accept responsibility for their behavior, and understand the concepts of logic and sound reasoning. Acts of stupidity can still be prevented though, as long as people are willing to examine the logical effects of the choices that they make, and are able to use good judgment in cases where their actions may cause harm to themselves or others.

Nike
22-04-2004, 15:05
Good, very good! But I don't agree with it! I agree there is a difference between ignorance and stupidity but I don't agree with the examples you gave about the stupidity. For some smoking would be stupid but for some not. You can't judge others actions by your point of view. I leave you to decide whether it is ignorance or stupidity .

Jorghan
22-04-2004, 15:46
I'm too lazy to read all of it. But I don't think it's hard to separate the terms. I do however notice that nowadays there's a lot of ignorant people who calls others ignorant.

What is important is that everything is about definitions, and everyone can't define everything the same way.

PS. smokers are stupid, and they smell too. :p

Elewyn
22-04-2004, 16:06
It's very difficult to judge somebody else's reasons of actions.

I can't agree with your terrorist example. Do you think they did it to improve relations of Western people to islam? are you sure their reasons were rational?

Sometimes, in some situations people can be also manipulated to think irrationaly. Most of people now in the West think they act with rational reasons after rational consideration, but many times it's not true, most of us act sometimes emotionally, instantly with some irrational reasons.

What do you think about emotional reaction, emotional act? is it stupidity or ignorance?
When you have loud arguments with somebody you love for some stupid reason you know it can destroy your relations you have with each other, but do it, because of emotions and lack of time for considering every word. Then some time after it you realie that it's necessary to apologize but emotions don't let you do it. What's that?
The same is religious arguments or all religious actions, people follow religious autority, emotions or whatever else, but noth the brain.

Also becoming drunk or using some drugs. For most of people it's act of stupidity, but what if it's what they want do for another rational reasons? In just a moment they have a reason and cannot see another. It's more ignorance than stupidity, because they are unable to acknowledge and consider reasons why not to do it.
You may answer that it's about having controll over you emotions and that's true, the life under cotroll is without many faults but also without so called "spice of the life" which mostly are emotional actions you once did and never forget it and if you had time to consider it, you'll never do things such as to jump naked into the river(which is far from being clean and hygienicaly clean) in town centre(just one example I came across just now). You can have either some serious problems from it, then it's called stupidity, or you can have experiences for the rest of your life...

I hope there is not so many faults (language and logical-it was not so considered :()

Nike
22-04-2004, 17:11
Originally posted by Jorghan
PS. smokers are stupid, and they smell too. :p

Drunks smell, too! :mad:

I guess Elewyn said what I wanted to say!


PS Karl Erfurt, I hope you don't get offended!

*Note to myself* Learn more english!

hulkster225
22-04-2004, 18:01
First off, let me say that it was a very well written essay. I do agree with most of what you said. However, I disagree with some of the examples too. Mainly the example of terrorism. I am not condoning their actions but, you have to look at their acts from their perspective if you are going to label them as stupid. From they way they see it, it is the most sincere act to show one's faith, and to them it really doesn't seem stupid at all. I agree with the others for the most part, especially smoking, I just can't see any reason to do it!!

vanedor
22-04-2004, 18:57
I agree.

From they way they see it, it is the most sincere act to show one's faith, and to them it really doesn't seem stupid at all.

Of course, your own stupid acts rarely looks stupid to yourself unless you are particularly clear-sighted.

But ignorance is something extremly relative. How much ignorant a person needs to be to be qualified as ignorant?

hulkster225
22-04-2004, 20:03
Of course, your own stupid acts rarely looks stupid to yourself unless you are particularly clear-sighted.

Not necessarily. Some people do something they know is stupid, like speeding on a highway.

Angryminer
22-04-2004, 20:12
Actually in the mind of the committing stupid, the action he is doing seems particularly sensefull. It might have a drawback (like the possibility of killing other people in a car accident), but the advantages (be faster at your destination) seem much more important to the one who drives too fast.
Actually there is no such thing as stupidity, because nobody would do an action he knows to be bad for him or others without the hope of an advantage. If the advantage is thought to be more important than the drawback, people tend to speak of stupidity as soon as another one's opinion differs from the own one. But in fact this "stupidity" is caused by a lack of knowledge and understanding.
So "stupidity" is just another form of "ignorance".

Angryminer

Elewyn
22-04-2004, 21:45
very well said, Angryminer. Good form (not as good as essay, but almost perfect-because shorter) and great ideas.

Alcohol is often been drunk to free somebody's mind.

A risk often seems to be far smaller than advantage of "stupid" actions.

Angryminer
22-04-2004, 21:50
I'm not good at writing essays.
I express my meaning in few but tightly packed sentences, see that my essay is far too short for a good mark (in school) and loose myself in unprecise expressions and such...

I think I'm too lazy to write long essays. That's why I compress my opinion into so few sentences ;) .

Angryminer

Emhyr var Emreis
22-04-2004, 22:28
better to say the same in few strong words than to bore people with soooo long essays. No offence, Karl Erfurt, but this forum is more for shorter messages. However your essay had some good ideas in the deffinitions etc, but examples, as others said, are little weaker. And Angryminer's right.

What you think is caused by stupidity, because "he" must have known the risks which are self-evident, may look not so self-evident in eyes of sbdy else with diferent mentality or lifestyle. And ofcourse, he can havwe no problems with some "stupidity" like smoking/driving fast/using drugs(alcohol included) and you with protecting yourself from every problem can face them by sth else. It's so called life.

timurlenk
23-04-2004, 00:15
Originally posted by Angryminer
I'm not good at writing essays.
I express my meaning in few but tightly packed sentences, see that my essay is far too short for a good mark (in school) and loose myself in unprecise expressions and such...

I think I'm too lazy to write long essays. That's why I compress my opinion into so few sentences ;) .

Angryminer


you can work for tv, radio or newspaper....
there its a goal to use short and easy to understand wordings.

(kiss = keep it short and simple. or keep it short and stupid :D ) school essays are not in demand for media :cheers:


emhyr var emreis, you'r right!

Richard
23-04-2004, 00:18
Thats a good essay karl erfurt.:go:and i think u will make a great writer:)
The way i see it
Ignorance is the lack of knowledge about something and stupidity
is the way people act sometimes when they do something thinking is right but it isn't.
So my point is, stupidity is caused by ignorance. they aren't the same thing but they are like the (cause and effect) where ignorance is the cause and stupidity is the effect. Who is the person that acts with stupidity? the ignorant!

Anguille2
23-04-2004, 08:55
Ignorance: not knowing something

Stupidity: thinking you know everything

:angel:

Nadine Knobloch
23-04-2004, 11:54
Ignorance: Active
Stupidity: Passive

The ignoramus decides to be ignorant - the stupid one has no choice.

Karl Erfurt
23-04-2004, 12:01
Wow, we have some interesting replies so far! There are too many of them here for me to respond to each of you personally in a reasonable length of time (which is actually a good thing, because I like lots of replies):) , so I will simply post some points here that will hopefully clarify some misconceptions that some people seem to be having about my essay. Please feel free to make additional comments or ask questions about anything that I have posted.

1) This is supposed to be an informative essay, not an argumentative one. My purpose in posting it here is to inform and educate people about the phenomena of ignorance and stupidity, and to encourage them to think logically about the choices that they make in their lives. I have come to believe that ignorance and stupidity are the root causes of many of the problems that plague human society. By using the logical power of the human brain (as opposed to such things as emotion, religious doctrine, violence, etc), we can go a long way toward solving these problems, and thus create a more peaceful, prosperous world. This will allow us to enjoy a higher quality of life as individuals, and hopefully extend our life spans as well.

2) I am NOT trying to label any person or group of people (even including the savagely illogical 9/11 terrorists) as “stupid”. I am merely pointing out that we should learn to recognize obviously irrational behaviors, especially when such behaviors result in the deaths of innocent people.

3) No, I do not think that the 9/11 terrorists were trying to improve relations of Western people to Islam, nor do I think that their reasons were rational (this seems pretty obvious). Everything that I have seen/heard/read about the event suggests that they were acting as martyrs for the cause of Allah, and that some of them even believed that Allah would grant them the pleasure of up to 72 virgins after ascending to Heaven. However, there is no conclusive evidence that Allah (or any other “god” or “higher power” for that matter) even exists at all, and it is hard to imagine that this particular deity would approve of killing 3,000+ innocent people, even if they did happen to be infidels. In other words, it seems quite obvious that the people who committed these attacks were basically a bunch of misguided fools.

4) Yes, people can sometimes be manipulated to think irrationally (organized religion and national governments seem to be the main culprits here), which is why it is important for people to actually USE THEIR BRAINS and think as rational individuals, instead of just going along with what some political or religious leader tells them to think or do.

5) Emotional acts or emotional reactions do not necessarily qualify as stupidity or ignorance- it depends on the situation. If the person commits to a course of action that causes harm to him/herself, and particularly if the action in question results in consequences that are contrary to his/her interests, then the action could qualify as either ignorance or stupidity. The exact classification depends upon the knowledge level of the person involved- if the person has no knowledge of what he/she is doing then the action would be the result of ignorance, and the person may be seen as an “ignorant barbarian”, “clueless newbie”, etc. If, however, the person is aware of the fact that what he/she is about to do is likely to result in harmful consequences for the people involved, yet they allow emotions to control their actions anyway, then this could qualify as stupidity. If the person does not apologize because “emotions won’t let you do it”, then this is generally referred to as “stubbornness”, also known as “obstinacy”, “bullheadedness”, “pigheadedness”, or simply “foolish pride”- all of these are roughly equivalent terms.

6) Cigarette smoking seems to affect all people equally, at least as far as long term health risks are concerned. Cigarette smoke contains 599 separate chemical substances, about 100 of which are known poisons (some of these are known carcinogens as well). It is now well known that chronic cigarette smoking can lead to serious medical conditions such as lung cancer, emphysema, etc., not to mention greatly reduced lung capacity and lots of coughing. Any human being that persists in smoking cigarettes under these conditions could definitely have their actions placed in the “stupid” category, since this is clearly contrary to the person’s long-term survival interests. The only exception to this might be a case in which the person actually wants to commit suicide, but in these instances, there are much more efficient (and ultimately less painful) ways of doing this. Also, please note that this applies only to cigarette smoking, not the smoking of other substances such as marijuana.

7) Drinking alcohol, simply by itself, may not be considered “stupid”. In fact, there can actually be benefits to alcohol if it is not used excessively. However, if someone drinks alcohol excessively AND climbs into a motor vehicle AND has his/her judgment impaired AND weaves around the road recklessly AND causes an accident AND kills/injures innocent people, then this constitutes a pattern of irrational behavior, also known as stupidity. It should be rather obvious that this pattern of actions is contrary to the person’s interests, since it normally results in jail time, fines, paying restitution, etc., not to mention possibly dealing with the victims or families of the victims. Of course, this assumes that the drunk driver actually survives the accident. If not, then the stupidity becomes part of that person’s legacy. Hopefully, his/her successors will learn from this mistake!

8) Some of the points being made about ignorance leading to stupidity, or stupidity possibly being another form of ignorance, etc. are mostly correct. There is still a very important distinction between the two concepts, however. Stupidity results when people persist in doing illogical things even though they KNOW that these actions will bring them unfavorable results. These people are NOT ignorant. Also, they do not necessarily perceive themselves as gaining some type of advantage from their behaviors, either. I have seen people do things like banging their heads against walls for no reason, and even when questioned about it later, they offer no explanation. They never saw any “advantage”. Even when people do perceive an advantage to their illogical actions, though, it is usually because they are trying to justify or rationalize the action, NOT because they are ignorant of the consequences. Then, when the unfavorable consequences occur, such people will almost always try to defend their actions by either acting like they were ignorant, or by blaming it on another person, group of people, or even an inanimate object.

9) For those who are complaining about the length of the essay, this is mostly because of the sheer quantity of ignorance and stupidity in the world. But of course, that is why I wrote the essay in the first place, because people seem to need lots of education in this regard! If you have not read the essay yet, please do so if you have the time.

10) No one really needs to worry about offending me. I am a strong believer in freedom of speech and freedom of expression, so I welcome any honest comments or suggestions for improvement. For example, if you do not like the particular examples given for ignorance and/or stupidity in the essay, you can always make some alternative suggestions. This is still somewhat of a work in progress (I’m even thinking about expanding the essay into a non-fiction book later on), so if you have any good suggestions that fit into the right categories, I can include them in the essay and come out with a revised version later.

Well, that’s about all of the time I have for now (it’s getting late). Once again, please feel free to make additional comments and suggestions. Thank you for the replies so far! :)

Elewyn
23-04-2004, 12:45
in brief. When you act with a risk and you succeeded, it's simply braveness. If not, it's stupidity.

Anguille2
23-04-2004, 13:31
Terrorism is neither stupid nor ignorance. Of course i don't approve it and i was terribly schocked by 9/11.
Terrorism is the war of the poor against very strong countries. If they could, they would raise a regular army and have a "decent" fight. However, people in arabic countries such as Palestina, don't see an alternate option. Plus fanatism raised from the ignorance (which came mostly, well you have rich fanatics too...hopefully less) by poverty and lack of education. The combination of both has given us terrorism. What did lead to that situation? You have to go back a couple of centuries with the british empire who's motto was: divide to rule (something like that, i don't remember the phrasing exaclty:scratch: ). Well, the brits had colonised Iran and south Irak. Please bare me if i make some mistakes, i don't have the correct dates in my head).
1. They created a fictionnal state with a puppet government just to have access to oil: Kuwait. They already had control over the oil in Iran (BP).
2. They cheated on the arabs during WW1, promising them that they would get their own country if they helped fight the Ottoman Empire (Laurence of Arabia is a very well done movie). Of course, all they got was peanuts as the British remained in control.
3. GB was weaker after WW1...Other foreign investors (mostly US as they had still a good economy after the war) started to invest in the Middle East. All the money from oil went out to foreign countries.
4. Afer WW2 british gave up most of their colonies/protectorates. International community (western countries) decided (due to bad conscience) to create a state for the Jews (which is completly ok with me). However (see point 2), arabs took another slash on their face....cheated again. That's reason 3 (reason 1 is the creation of Kuwait, 2 the betrayal in WW1) why they didn't accept Israel. Was it wrong? yes...they should better have accepted it, Israel would now be full or arabs.
5. US and British oil companies had managed to keep puppets governments in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Iran for the oil and that led to the revolution of the latter (hey..they took all the money away! logical decision). Thus leading to (under the pressure of those companies) a boycott of Iran (same happened to Cuba, not for oil but mostly for land).
6. The consequence of the Iran affair led the US government to support:
a. Saddam because he was a defense against Iran and didn't allow the Shiites in his own country to create another revolution (unlike the Sha which was also a puppet from the US government)
Plus he was selling the oil.
b. Israel as a strong ally in the middle east. That led to a diplacement of the anger of the arabs from GB to US.
7. The presence in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait of US troops after Gulf War 1.

All in all, arabs feel they have suffered from too much injustice (from GB and US mostly).

Ok...i've been too long, here's the conclusion. How can you hurt someone who has more money and more power than you? a direct confrontation is useless -> ergo terrorism with the meaning: "leave us finally alone!" or "keep out". And as long as we're going down there with our armies and corrupted capitalist, they're going to hate us. Plain simple. Truth is, the reason of 9/11 doesn't really have anything to do with Allah. And i always have to laugh when some ignorant (here we go again) says that they want to attack our "way of life" :rofl: it really has nothing to do with it.

Emhyr var Emreis
23-04-2004, 13:55
right. Something waht may seem irational and evil can seem very rationaly and the only way possible to other culture with diferent mentality.

However I can't agree with 9/11, I must say that main problem of many people in the West(no offence, but espeially Americans) now is that they sitll don't want to understand another cultural mentality.