roads ant knights travelling question

[Elewyn]

Thanks to Angryminer and his german news we know that a player can't build roads by himself.

So can a knight move out of a road if it cannot be build by played?

And one more question, about river crossing.

In part of bulgarian article, translated by Khan Krum there is mentioned river crossing, the only possibility seems to be by boats. Is it true?
what about fords?(a place where river is not so deep and can be crossed by foot) are there any?
In water soldiers are slower and it's very fine place to attack enemy army marching.

And i found little silly to cross some mountain creek or little river by boats :( instead of by feet

[hawk_knight]

Originally posted by Elewyn
Thanks to Angryminer and his german news we know that a player can't build roads by himself.

So can a knight move out of a road if it cannot be build by played?

And one more question, about river crossing.

In part of bulgarian article, translated by Khan Krum there is mentioned river crossing, the only possibility seems to be by boats. Is it true?
what about fords?(a place where river is not so deep and can be crossed by foot) are there any?
In water soldiers are slower and it's very fine place to attack enemy army marching.

And i found little silly to cross some mountain creek or little river by boats :( instead of by feet

Good question Elewyn

devs can a army crossing a river by foot :confused: ( if the river is not very deep)

btw if there can crossing a river by foot

what about siegeweapons :confused:

[Khan Krum]

Originally posted by Elewyn
Thanks to Angryminer and his german news we know that a player can't build roads by himself.

So can a knight move out of a road if it cannot be build by played?

And one more question, about river crossing.

In part of bulgarian article, translated by Khan Krum there is mentioned river crossing, the only possibility seems to be by boats. Is it true?
what about fords?(a place where river is not so deep and can be crossed by foot) are there any?
In water soldiers are slower and it's very fine place to attack enemy army marching.

And i found little silly to cross some mountain creek or little river by boats :( instead of by feet

I mentioned also rafts being able to cross the river- and that goes for deep rivers

[Sir Nikephorion]

in the past there were also the possibility of crossing a river by making an "Evauche", that meant on a less deep part of the river the cavallry went into the river and slowed down the flood while the others were crossing the river. That´ll be a great possibility of attacking a crossing enemy...:)

[Angryminer]

1. I believe that there are no rivers on the KoH-map that are so tiny that you can cross them by foot. Those tiny river hardly influence the gameplay and so they they are totally senseless ;) .
2.
"So can a knight move out of a road if it cannot be build by player?"
I'm not sure if I understood you right, so it might be a good idea to rephrase this question ;) . However, streets do not influence the knights in any way, so they can move on the streets, move through the fields and anywhere they want except mountains and sea.
3. I don't think that we need fords (strange, my dictionary mentioned this word neither in english nor german, but I know what you mean). There is very few difference between an army being slowed down while crossing a river on rafts and boats or an army being slowed down while crossing a river on a ford.
Crossing rivers on a ford might be substituted pretty well with bridges, so I don't think fords are absolutely necessary.
However, it would be nice to have them in ;) .

Angryminer

[Elewyn]

2. I meant if a knight must follow a road when is moving. So you answered me. It only would look stupid if a played won't be able to built roads and knights must follow predefined roads.

But it make sense that knight can move wherever he wants.

3. I don't think that mountain rivers were often crossed by bridges (and except one very old screenshot I have seen no bridge in KoH, also devs didn't tell us anything about bridges, only that we won't be able to build them, as far as I remember).

I don't know how it is in other parts of Europe, but in my country many rivers can be crossed by foot (Vltava river in Prague, where it is no creek, but no River like Danube in lower flow). I think that fords should be in game because it was very frequently used crossingpoints. I think that upper parts of rivers like Danube, Odra, Rhine etc should be able to be crossed by fords f.e. to Regensburg-Danube, Wroclaw-Odra, Konstanz-Rhine. And many of medium rivers are not so deep to cannot be crossed by foot. That's my opinion.

Also mountain creek copuld be hard to be crossed in medieval times where there was not so many bridges. Especially for big army. Just look at some chronicle and you'll see.

[Kuno of Gersenau]

Well, I was once in Schaffhausen (It's in the near of Konstanz) near the Rhine camping with school, and belive me, there you can't cross by foot. But There where the big rivers start it's good possible that you can go by foot. But this regins are most in the mountains...

And the small rivers aren't in the game I think...

[Elewyn]

maybe I used bad places as examples (I have never been in none of them, it was only a guess). I don't think it's in every place, but when a river is more than 200km long (Vltava in Prague), there still CAN be found some place where it is possible. Vltava is mainly over 2-3m deep in Prague, but there used to be 2-3 fords in middle ages, when a river becomes wide in some place, it can be deep around 1,4m deep whet is possible place to cross it by food. It was more practical for armies to sit on a horse and cross it in bigger number than collect in very short time some 100 boats or make rafts

[Sir Nikephorion]

That would make the game much more interesting, because there could be a feature of destroying own bridges to avoid the enemy of crossing them. Building ships would take a lot of time and you as the defender would gain a lot of time before the enemy would be able to cross the river on a ford, he would first have to search for one when you have destroyed the bridge...

And you could reorganize your defence!

[geno604]

Wow, very good questions being asked here... I would like to hear the answers to these ones devs?

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Sir Nikephorion
That would make the game much more interesting, because there could be a feature of destroying own bridges to avoid the enemy of crossing them. Building ships would take a lot of time and you as the defender would gain a lot of time before the enemy would be able to cross the river on a ford, he would first have to search for one when you have destroyed the bridge...

And you could reorganize your defence!

I'm also for this ability to destroy bridges as tactical defensive meassure - IMO we should have this ability also because it will give a boost to the game on the strategic/tactical level - it's not always the one who has the largest army who's the winner at the end of the day - terrain ( like rivers, forests, plains, hills etc. ) can have a huge impact on the outcome.

[Sir Nikephorion]

And thats the way it really occured in the past!
Lets take an army with 2000 Teutonic champs, 2000 feudal knights and some peasents standing in front of a destroyed bridge and on the other side 500 longbowmen, hiding behind something...

Sometimes the only chance for small armies...

[Elewyn]

I will support destroying bridges (if bridges will be in KoH) only if it will be bosible to build them, what is not true right now, as you can see in thread "river crossing"River crossing (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207&highlight=river+crossing)

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Elewyn
I will support destroying bridges (if bridges will be in KoH) only if it will be bosible to build them, what is not true right now, as you can see in thread "river crossing"River crossing (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207&highlight=river+crossing)

Maybe they could have bridges on fixed positions ( to prevent us from building bridges all over the place ! ) which could be destroyed and rebuilt - reasonable compromise IMO.

[Sir Nikephorion]

Yeah, fixed "destroyable" Bridges and a few places to cross the river at its lowest parts and on or two "Stege/Anlegeplätze", I don´t know the english term, I mean a place where small boats ca pass the river and can be built there...

So the best way (bridge) is destroyed and the invasor has to choose if he looks for a ford to cross or building ships at the "Steg"

There is still enough strategy in this...

[Bubino]

in my opinion, about travel & roads a good idea could be this:

a knight (and his units) can move on the road or not, but:

1)if he moves on the road, can move faster.

( 2)this is particulary important if the knight's army has siege machines, because siege machines have a lot of trouble in fields, woods, ecc... )

the second case is between brackets for a reason: i don't know if an army starts his walk from castle with siege machines; or, in the opposite, siege towers, rams ecc... are buildt only near the castle by engineers-servant; i mean: when i'm starting siege, and i go in close view, i see my servant with siege machines; but if i'm travelling and i'm attacked, in close view i see only servant; in this case point 2) has no sense; but, differently, if i have already siege machines, move on road is better!!!

[Henrik]

I think that knights should have a speed-bonus ( the distance thay can travel in one day ) for moving on roads - then we there should be a knight skill which gave a speed-bonus when knights move over rough terrain.

This would "force" the player to consider the outlay of roads in an enemy territory.

I also thing that when a knight crosses a river there should be a delay to simulate that they build rafts to cross the river on - this would make it more attractive for the player to find a bridge = no delay, instead.

[Nemrod Warbringer]

I totally agree with Henrik and Bubino: terrain (i.e. roads or lack of these) should influence movement rates...about bridges: what if we have bridges being built at SPECIFIC, LIMITED (and few) locations in a realm IF we decide to (these places may even be marked on the map; this would help in devising a strategically sound attack/defense), and at the same time have FORDS, somewhat similar to what we had in the AoE series (the green thing in the riverbeds), where armies should advance even slower than open terrain (as opposed to roads...)

[Angryminer]

Those bridges were suggested once. No response.

Angryminer

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Angryminer
Those bridges were suggested once. No response.

Angryminer

yeahhh, that's quite annoying that they has chosen to ignore this issue, because there are really some great possibilities in this IMO - on the other hand, they might have noticed it and even liked the idea so much that they have decided to implement it as a nice surprise or maybe they have put it on their to-do-list for a sequel ( KoH2 )

anyway, this idea is just too great to just end its life in the trashcan i think we can all agree on that one.