Bludgeoning Weapons?

[Hurricane766]

Hi,

Are there going to be any units with bludgeoning weapons? Weapons like the mace, the morning star or the club? I think it would be cool to have a few units like that - maybe they could have a different effectiveness compared with units with slashing/piercing weapons?

What does everyone else think?


The game looks awesome, I can't wait!
:cheers:

[Elewyn]

I don't think club was such usual weapon in middle ages. But yes, mace should be there. For example instead of (IMO almost senseless) heavy swordsmen.

Untill now nobody saw any unit like this in KoH, so it's upon the devs if they will be or not. I personally don't think it's so important, but if heavy swordsmen won't prove they are really not senseless, macemen should be put instead.

[Kdar]

Or what about horseman armored with mace/morning star, In slavic nation it was used alot.

[Drake Maethor]

Originally posted by Elewyn
I don't think club was such usual weapon in middle ages. But yes, mace should be there. For example instead of (IMO almost senseless) heavy swordsmen.

Untill now nobody saw any unit like this in KoH, so it's upon the devs if they will be or not. I personally don't think it's so important, but if heavy swordsmen won't prove they are really not senseless, macemen should be put instead.

Hey, if you read the men at arms description in the Units Showcase you'll see that as armor they only have a shield and a helmet. Also it looks like the common medieval warrior. So maybe the heavy swordsmen are a more late medieval warrior, in full plate and armed with a two handed sword.

[Henrik]

I also think a unit with a morningstar or a mace would be nice - it would be good against units with armor.

[Finellach]

Originally posted by Drake Maethor
So maybe the heavy swordsmen are a more late medieval warrior, in full plate and armed with a two handed sword.

You mean like Teutonic Knight? We have that. ;)

[Shand]

:angel:

[Drake Maethor]

Originally posted by Finellach
You mean like Teutonic Knight? We have that. ;)

YEAH, YOU IN CROATIA MAYBE....

BUT WHAT ABOUT US POOR KINGS OF NON TEUTONIC KINGDOMS???

But if you like we all can pay you a visit just to collect some!
Imagine, the only region in the entire world with 2 handed swordmen wearing full plate, it'll be KOH's touristic sensation!!!

Yeah! :cheers:
Come on lads! Prepare your swor---I mean your luggages! We'll go on holidays to the Balcans!!!
:angel:

[Finellach]

What are you talking abou? There are no Teutonic Knights nor there could be. :confused:

Croatia as far as I know has no special units...so far...:rolleyes:

[Gorgoroth]

LOL, Teutonic knigths in Croatia? :D :D :D
Drake I hope that you were kidding. :p

[Finellach]

Teutonic Order was present in Transylvania thought.

In Croatia we had Templars, but in KoH, as for now there are no special units. This also goes for some other neighbouring countries like Hungary, Bosnia, etc... :(

[Drake Maethor]

:D
"You mean like Teutonic Knight? We have that. "
"There are no Teutonic Knights nor there could be."

Then not even you have them! :D More reasons in favor of the Heavy Swordmen as a 2 handed swordmen.

But why I said that there are Teutonic Knights in Croatia?
Because if you look at the Teutonic Knight description at the Unit Showcase you'll find:

Availability:
Germany, Baltics and Poland


Isn't Croatia included in the Balcans?
:cheers:

[Drake Maethor]

Originally posted by Gorgoroth
LOL, Teutonic knigths in Croatia? :D :D :D
Drake I hope that you were kidding. :p

:(
Don't be that bad with me!
I'm just a good guy quoting the game!
:D

[Finellach]

You are reading it wrong. Notice that it says: BALTICS not BALCANS. ;)
These two areas are about some 3-4 thousounds km away from each other. Maybe more.

Besides Croatia is on marigin of Balkan Peninsula. Some refer to it as "West Balkans", but there is no such thing.

Btw. more correct is Balkans as opposed to Balcans. ;)

[Drake Maethor]

OH! :blush:

:rofl:
haha I cannot believe I did that mistake... :nono:
But I've to admit that it's not the first time...

I may mix the names but I know they are very different regions. I'm not that brute! :p

The Baltics are Lithuania, Stonia, Lethonia.
And the Balkans a very complex region including Albania, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Serbia... Many people of different origins and cultures, am I wrong? Where the spark for the First War was ignited with the assasination of the Arch Duke.
By the way, and this is totally off topic, how are things there in the Balkans nowadays? Without Milosevic and after the war?

Anyway, excuse me for my mistake :cheers:

[Gorgoroth]

Originally posted by Drake Maethor

The Baltics are Lithuania, Stonia, Lethonia.
And the Balkans a very complex region including Albania, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Serbia... Many people of different origins and cultures, am I wrong?

Yes, the balcans is a very interesting place, mostly inhabited by the ancient indo europeans, the slavs.
Serbs for example are mostly slavish by their genes. They dont have as much indo european haplotype marker [EU19] like the Poles, Hungarians or the White Russians for example, but still they are slavs by blood.
The Croatians are also very interesting.
Copy & paste from the famous european racial & genetics site, reply post by a famous genetician:

Croats are not Slavs, this is crystal clear. Not just by their genes, but even anatomically they are very different. Croats mostly have dark/black hair dark eyes, their skin 'mostly' white, but they are looking very 'south european'.
I see lot of similarities between croats / kurds or armenians, however the skin color of the croats are not that dark at all, but this is propably because of the european assimilation. [slavish etc.]

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/identity_croatians_ancient_iran.php

"However, there are other research works proving that 75 percent of the Croats are different in origin from the Slavs and more similar to Kurds and Armenians from genetic point of view. On the other hand, studies show that there are less similarities between domestic livestock, poultry and plants in the old time Croatia with those in Europe, lending further proof to the fact that Croats had most probably migrated from a region close to Asia to their present area."

The high amount of the EU7 haplotype marker in the Croats make them 'special' in CE. They have higher amount from the EU7 haplotype marker, than the Saami [Lapps]

http://website.lineone.net/~usenet_evidence/gene_legacy/

http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf

The Balkans is a big mixture of the various races.
The funny part is that the most pure blooded indo european country is Hungary.
However this is nto a surprise, since Hungary is in the middle of the indo european lands.

If you are interested in these things just send me a PM. :cool:

[Finellach]

And here you go again....decided to embaress yourself in public? :rofl:

Indo-Europeans are ALL Caucassians meaning genotpyes like Eu4, Eu7, Eu8, Eu9, Eu10, Eu11, Eu12, Eu18, Eu19 are all Indo-European genotypes.

Genotype EU18 is the Germanic-Celtic genotype and is mostly dominant in West Europe.

Genotype Eu19 is the Slavic genotype and is mostly dominant in East Europe.

Genotypes like Eu7 are the next domimant genotype after the two, but much less. This genotype is the oldest after the Eu4(Greek) and is present througout the Europe: France 17%, Holland 22%, Germany 38%, Slovakia 18%,Albanian 20%,acedonia 20%, POland 23%, Hungary 11%, Ukraine 18%, Croatia 45%, Saami(Lapps) 40%, etc..

Eu7(Indo-Aryan) genotype marks the genotype that separated from it's core some 20-25 thousounds ago and came to Europe. This is the so called Gravettian culture. Most Croats do not have "darker skin" and such a thing can be said only by a very stupid man and someone who never visited Croatia. The prime "speciments" of classical Croatian appearance are Goran Ivanisevic(dark hair, light eyes, very white skin, tall), Toni Kukoc(dark hair, very white skin, very tall), Davor Suker(
Most Croats are as I said before descendants of the autochtounous population that lived here for the last 15-20 thousound years or in another words Illyrians.

"With the exception of idiosyncratic distributions indicative of recent gene flow, M170 is confined to Europe (Eu7). The mutation is most frequent in central Eastern Europe and also occurs in Basques and Sardinians that have accumulated a subsequent mutation (M26) that distinguishes Eu8. The closest phylogenetic predecessor is the M89 mutation, from which the most important Middle Eastern lineages originated. We propose that M170 originated in Europe in descendants of men that arrived from the Middle East 20,000 to 25,000 years ago, who have been associated with the Gravettian culture (16). This migration may have coincided with that of mtDNA haplogroup H to Europe. It has been suggested that Gravettian and Aurignac groups coexisted for a few thousand years, maintaining their identities despite occasional contacts. During the LGM, Western Europe was isolated from Central Europe, where an Epi-Gravettian culture persisted in the area of present-day Austria, the Czech Republic, and the northern Balkans (16). After climatic improvement, this culture spread north and east "

[Gorgoroth]

There is a very interesting discussion about the Croats on the Skadi, with typcial croatian anthropological and genetical informations compared to Osetian [another ancient iranian tribe] iranian, kurdish and armenian people.
Also many picures are posted there about croats, and those people.
The only difference is the darker skin there, the writer was right in that. Why the Croats do have a lighter skin color? I agree with the writer again, propably because of the assmiliation.
Indo-Aryan is just a naming it has nothing to do with the Germanic Aryan Ideology. Just to correct this.
;)
Oh and I am not arguing about the EU7 haplotype that is right of course, the genetics tests are correct. It is not an Indo European marker, that is not correct. However Im not sure what you wanna tell us with that? ;)

Few Croatian examples:

Croat soldier from the 17th century:
http://www.iranchamber.com/culture/images/croatian_soldier.jpg

Pavelic:
http://www.ultimatum.20m.com/2_4des2.gif

Tudman:
http://www.ericsson.hr/etk/novine/kom1299/predsjednik.jpg

Starcevic
http://www.hsp1861.hr/slike/sstar20.gif

Jelacic:
http://www.hrt.hr/arhiv/ndd/10listopad/1016%20Jelacic1.jpg

Frankopan
http://www.magma.ca/~rendic/zrinski.jpg

Glavas
http://www.hdzausnz.com/images/arhiva/branimir_glavas.jpg

Krpina
http://www.hrt.hr/vijesti/arhiv/99/01/21/29.jpg

Compare them with kurds, osetians or armenians for example.
There is a huge difference between the Croats and the other people [Slavish - Indo European] in the region not just genetically, but anthropologically as well.

[Finellach]

Croats today do not have single thing similar to Iranians. Croats are not the least different than other nations in Balkans: dark hair, dark eyes(but light eyes are very frequent), tall, white skin. This is appearant in Serbs and Montenegrans who as well have high percentage of Eu7 genotype and even less Eu19 which would make them least slavic.

The most stupid thing one can say is that Eu19 is the Indo-European marker. In other words you would say that Eu18 is not which is germanic-celtic genotype. Saying Germans and Celts are not Indo-Europeans is the most stupid and absurd thing I ever heard. Not to mention Eu7 and Eu8 genotypes which are the oldest European genotypes in Europe with Eu4.

The only thing similar with Iran(in translation it means 'land of the aryans') is the Croatian name Hrvati which comes from Iranian word found there on one of the excavation sites. Geneticlly looking Croats are today mostly Eu7 proto-illyrian with Eu19 slavic and Eu18 germanic genotypes next.

Btw. Tudjaman was Hungarian actually. ;)

And Elewn you are completly right, but you see Gorgoroth is a racist so he can't help himself. ;)

[Gorgoroth]

no comment. :p
It is funny that there are huge sites with thousands of registered users, geneticians, anthroplogists etc, but they all agree on this, what I say, Finellach, except a few, but those are croatian posters just like you, isnt this funny??? :D

Ah well I didnt posted this to argue with you, it is totally pointless, I know that already. :D
This was a comment about the Balkan.

Ah and Tudman Tjudman? wasnt hungarian thats for sure, this is not a hungarian name at all, and he doesnt looks like a Hungarian, he looks like a croatian.