Middle East Scenario

[Elvain]

I think I shouldn't hijack Sverrir's thread any longer

I will start a new thread on this topic. I just found that there could be even latger map that I was working with, so I will probably extend my Middle Eastern Scenario (MES), to include regions more on west and north, at least all of the Balkans and Italy, I'll see how will it look, maybe I'll do my dreamed scenario of Europe+Middle east. We'll see

I will keep you informed about development of the map as possible.
This all means bad news for those who expected full version of Holy Rome 1.8 mod. There will only be beta for some time untill the map is ready. and if everything will go well, next Holy Rome's version will include Europe map extended to the middle east.

The map will be based on this map-proposal for koH2 based on my RomE project (see my signature):
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3627/0koh2mapresizehz7.gif
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any suggestions to the map or anything post here, I have just started so I'm opan to any good ideas...

[Angryminer]

Looks pretty cool. I hope you have both the time and willpower to pull it through. :go:

Do you use the original-europe map as a basis?
(The original map is bigger than the sizes available in the editor. Load the europe-map into the editor, manually strip all objects from it and you have the bigger size for you to edit as you want.)

Angryminer

[Laudan]

I want support this Middle East Scenario with new events and battlegrounds.

[Elvain]

I tried that, but many things can't be removed, like for instance river.

Actually I have much more will than time now, but I'm affraid I will sacrifice some minor duties for this map. It's much bigger quest for me than just a mod...

but this map will be large enough. The provinces will be smaller than in vanilla, but still much larger than in the planned Middle east scenario
just starting (http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/3691/europemeng7.jpg)

[Angryminer]

You can remove rivers, roads and objects by removing/renaming rivers.dt etc.

Vain

[Laudan]

I think your work need more than six month. In this time i produce many battlegrounds in advance and think about new events for your map.

[Elvain]

You can remove rivers, roads and objects by removing/renaming rivers.dt etc.

Vain
That's great! :go: but actually I think that drawing the map all new wil be better - everything will have proportions from the conceptual map.
But I will need big rivers for this map. Hopefully I will soon find how to put them in. Small rivers could work with the smaller map, but not with this

Laudan: thanks. It will depend on my time how long will it take and how will the political maps and minimaps work..
Maybe some battle scenarios would be nice, but not completely necessary. Maybe a siege of a city by the sea?

I have no idea about quests. I don't even have the map, I will think of it later. Thanks anyway :go:

[Doux]

(The original map is bigger than the sizes available in the editor. Load the europe-map into the editor, manually strip all objects from it and you have the bigger size for you to edit as you want.)Yes, that is true and that's why I wonder if it is maybe possible to enlarge the map in hex outside of the editor... I'll investigate into this. It would be best if the original map of europe could
A.) be expanded, or
B.) be "pasted" (maybe through hex) into a larger map (if it is possible to create one).

[Elvain]

Yes, that is true and that's why I wonder if it is maybe possible to enlarge the map in hex outside of the editor... I'll investigate into this. It would be best if the original map of europe could
A.) be expanded, or
B.) be "pasted" (maybe through hex) into a larger map (if it is possible to create one).
that would be great too :go:

thanks for your help, guys :wink:

[Angryminer]

KoH 'generates' content that is is lacking. You can remove the textures.dt and it will create a new empty one, leaving you with all objects but no texture below that. Or you remove the rivers.dt, which will make KoH use an empty one.
Also, it is possible to set the size-properties of a map using a in2-file. However, in that case I have to delete all .dt files (they use the old width and lenght), upon which KoH fails to create new ones for me.
Since the copy-protection is removed KoH doesn't check for memory-hacks anymore. It might be possible to force a specific mapsize on KoH at runtime (before the map-creation process).
I'll try that tomorrow.

Angryminer

[Elvain]

so I will draw and if you'll find something better I can always start from the beggining. The actual mapsize I use is the same like vanilla map

[Dobber]

Great start Elvain! It might just be the first mod I will try! Waiting time does not matter!

[Doux]

KoH 'generates' content that is is lacking. You can remove the textures.dt and it will create a new empty one, leaving you with all objects but no texture below that. Or you remove the rivers.dt, which will make KoH use an empty one.
Also, it is possible to set the size-properties of a map using a in2-file. However, in that case I have to delete all .dt files (they use the old width and lenght), upon which KoH fails to create new ones for me.
Since the copy-protection is removed KoH doesn't check for memory-hacks anymore. It might be possible to force a specific mapsize on KoH at runtime (before the map-creation process).
I'll try that tomorrow.

AngryminerYes, you can remove all files except map.dt and map.ini (maybe the latter can be removed too, but I haven't tried that yet).

The size defined in map.ini (in "pels" = pixels) is the width of the map. The height is probably automatically scaled. The maps are:
tiny - 2x2 - 2048 pixels wide
small - 3x3 - 3072 pixels
medium - 4x4 - 4096 pixels (also europe map as created from the editor)
large - ~6x6 - 6144 pixels
gigantic - ~8x8 - 8192 pixels
Real europe map - ~14x14 - 28672 pixels

Also, looking at the file size of map.dt and the size of the map, the size increases as (width)² [consistent with the two dimensional map].
It would probably be possible to extrapolate what map.dt 's size should be for e.g. a 18x18, 36864 pixels wide, map. But so far I haven't discovered what the editor considers as acceptable information in map.dt. In any case, it doesn't agree with an empty file (hex: 000...), even when I copied the headers. This would've been extraordinairy of course, but I had to try anyway.

[patriot1]

Elvain,do you think it is possible to achieve with KOH editor?!:confused:
It is true that i am a passimist but it seems to me almost an unachievable task having in mind the things said by Frujin about the stability of the editor and all the other stuff regarding its usage...
ps:Once i tried it and was shocked by all the operations needed to be done by "hand" without the support of the program,also i noticed the limited options wrom which one must choose!

[Angryminer]

Elvain,do you think it is possible to achieve with KOH editor?!:confused:
It is true that i am a passimist but it seems to me almost an unachievable task having in mind the things said by Frujin about the stability of the editor and all the other stuff regarding its usage...
ps:Once i tried it and was shocked by all the operations needed to be done by "hand" without the support of the program,also i noticed the limited options wrom which one must choose!The original map was done with exactly that editor. (* Source: Frujin)
So there's the proof of concept.

Angryminer

[patriot1]

The original map was done with exactly that editor. (* Source: Frujin)
So there's the proof of concept.

Angryminer

By trained professionals within their working hours!
I am not saying Elvain is not good enought but he will need a lot more efforts to do it,having in mind all the other things he is required to do in his daily life.

[Elvain]

I still believe it is possible... it will take some time, but after all...

in worst case we can ask Frujin for an advice..
if this map is done, they can have better map for KoH 2 free, just help us a little...

I deleted all provinces from Europe map and I'm changing it...
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ehm, I'm afraid this is too ambitious.

When I see how big problems are around it, I think it will last looooooooong time.

[patriot1]

Elvain i have a suggestion for you why don`t you make Epir two provinces:modern day Albania territory and the other which is in nowadays Greece?
It makes sence to me,since this is the ideal of Greater Albania(for the albanians) achieving it ironicly with Italian occupation during ww2
The northern and southern parts of this land are very different,at the north having 100% albanian pop and at the south about 10% or below with mojority of greeks
Besides as long as i know every time Bulgaria took this territory from Byzantia,the border was at the middle of this province you made.For practical reasons ofcorse otherwise the border would be too narrow.
+if you make it as i proposed you`ll have =1 province in the balkans which i trust will bewell met by Balkan states players including myself!

[Doux]

I still believe it is possible... it will take some time, but after all...

in worst case we can ask Frujin for an advice..
if this map is done, they can have better map for KoH 2 free, just help us a little...

I deleted all provinces from Europe map and I'm changing it...
--
ehm, I'm afraid this is too ambitious.

When I see how big problems are around it, I think it will last looooooooong time.Well, deleting all provinces and then reworking it would take VERY much time - better try expanding it using the new supersized map; hopefully this will work.

[Elvain]

I tried to use the supersized map, but most of it was black and I couldn't do anything with it.

To be honest I don't really like the actual map so I'd edit it a lot anyway, so creating completely new map won't add me work but simplyfy everything...

Patriot. I didn't do it because of number of provinces (I prefere the smallest possible number of provinces that would be correct). In this case I agree and I might split it in 2 provinces, also because actual Epir is a bit too large compared to other provinces in the region (except Macedonia).