History.... not every one knows it [Archive] - Page 2

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Vytis

10-08-2004, 00:50

The game is almost done so there's not much left to discuss or argue about. So this thread seems like a perfect chance to stir up some controversy (and interest in posting). So how about this:

Adolf Hitler
Not that I like him, but I think he was a funny guy.

Your kinding me right? You think Hitler was funny? Do you think killing 6 million Jews and 5 million other gays, jypses, and other minorities is funny?

I see you studied your textbooks well. Hitler, greatest evil, holocaust, millions dead, and so on and so forth. Only.... how much do you trust your textbooks? Remember "history is written by the victors" ? And that "Half-truth is a lie" ?
There's always more than 1 side to the story. Especially in history. So you know well about millions of killed jews. But do you know about the millions that were killed by the jews? No? I thought so. I suggest you study Soviet Union's early history (NKVD + Stalin).
Not to mention starting the biggest war in the entire history of the Earth which killed millions.
Again that's one side of the story: superagressive warmonger Germany went on a conquest and killing spree by attacking it's neighbours.
But there's another theory: the evil imperialistic UK pitted evil fashistic Germany against equally evil communistic Soviet Union in hopes of bleeding them both to death.
Or yet another: the evil Soviets were about to launch an attack on Europe of their own... only germans moved first.
And what about USA and Japan ? Did evil imperialistic japanese attacked peace&democracy loving americans? Or did evil imperialists americans forced them to attack by provoking with their hostile policies (remember embargoe?) ? In latter case Japan's attack might be called 'pre-emptive strike' today.

Largefry07

10-08-2004, 02:42

The game is almost done so there's not much left to discuss or argue about. So this thread seems like a perfect chance to stir up some controversy (and interest in posting). So how about this:

I see you studied your textbooks well. Hitler, greatest evil, holocaust, millions dead, and so on and so forth. Only.... how much do you trust your textbooks? Remember "history is written by the victors" ? And that "Half-truth is a lie" ?
There's always more than 1 side to the story. Especially in history. So you know well about millions of killed jews. But do you know about the millions that were killed by the jews? No? I thought so. I suggest you study Soviet Union's early history (NKVD + Stalin).

Again that's one side of the story: superagressive warmonger Germany went on a conquest and killing spree by attacking it's neighbours.
But there's another theory: the evil imperialistic UK pitted evil fashistic Germany against equally evil communistic Soviet Union in hopes of bleeding them both to death.
Or yet another: the evil Soviets were about to launch an attack on Europe of their own... only germans moved first.
And what about USA and Japan ? Did evil imperialistic japanese attacked peace&democracy loving americans? Or did evil imperialists americans forced them to attack by provoking with their hostile policies (remember embargoe?) ? In latter case Japan's attack might be called 'pre-emptive strike' today.

You too know your history well :hello: And perhaps your right about Japan and USA. I mean we did try to cut them dry with oil and did in fact sink a mini sub of theirs hours before Pearl Harbor but Japan had already sent their fleet so attack pearl harbor before we sank their sub to in theroy they stuck first. And the oil embargo we put on Japan was stop their agressive movement in Asia and the Pacfic and in my opition is not an act of war.

Kyivan Power

10-08-2004, 02:58

woo go Japan ..

nice theories... but The Soviet Union wasnt a super power untill after the war and was incapable of launching an attack at that time... but everything else shounds good :go: and yeah .. Jews arint really inoucent .. not saying they deserved to be striped,gased, and burned.... but Jews are pretty evil them selves if u ask me, and America is helping that evil. Actually everyone is evil there is no pure good country, thank god we have the nuke..... no more BIG wars... yeah and UN too i guess..lol

Dobber

10-08-2004, 03:58

Prior to Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor they(Japan) had been very agressive in China and Russia. China and Russia at that time were allies of the US, UK and the other Allied nations. Japan wanted the resources of those countries because they had limited resources at home. They had studied the US's movement across the North American continent and how the Native American was pushed aside. They thought if it was okay for US to do that, then it was okay for them to do the same to China, and to then attack Russia because they came to the aid of China. Once the Allied nations placed embargoes on Japan and started squeezing them economically, they felt they must retaliate and that they must take control of the Pacific and establish superiority on that front.

It is correct that they were feeling pressure by the US and felt the need to strike back and did so at Pearl Harbor. They also underestimated the will and desire of the American people, they thought they were soft and had no backbone for a fight. They thought the US would be willing to negotiate a treaty and withdraw their embargoes and sanctions and allow them to continue their agression in Asia. They just did not understand that the US would not turn their backs on their Allies.

And yes the US did their share of kiling of the innocent in that war. There were numerous Japanese civillians killed in the raids on Japan. And I am not just talking about the two big blasts that everyone thinks ended the war with Japan. The number of people killed by the two atomic bombs that were dropped was just a fraction of the number killed on the Japanese mainland. The endless napalm drops that were burning huge portions of the cities killed many more Japanese civillians than the atomic blasts. Much of Japanese industry was built in the midst of the residential community and a lot of the Japanese industry was cottage industry(parts were being assembled in homes and carried to the factories). Since Japanese homes were made from highly flammable materials, the fires would spread uncontrollably once the napalm was dropped. There were many napalm raids after the dropping of the big bombs before the Japanese Emperor was ready to surrender. It was the fire raids that eventually brought the surrender. Had he not surrendered every city in Japan would have been burned completely to the ground, the US was preparing to quadruple the napalm raids on Japan.

Amazing that all this came about because Japan was trying to do in Asia, what they had seen the Westerners do in North America!

Mircea the Oldman

10-08-2004, 08:54

@Vytis

I am glad that I am not the only one wo think like this.. hope someday we'll meet ;)
well after the end of the ww2 americans especiallly a general Mc.... (I don't remember the name) wanted to bomb the soviet union with a few hundred nuclear bombs... soo where is the evil.
I have nothing with jeush but as you know many politican men from US are, and they rule the world... (Afganistan, Sebia, Iraq, Korea, Vietnam, Again in Serbia, Again in Iraq)
I belive that Hitler in his madness wanted to prevent this...
Soon we will have more games.... prepare... Iran is near.... once again Korea in near... mabe China too...
Till the end of of WW1 The Americans become a policeman of the World, they belive they are industractable.... but no empire rezist through centuries... everyone colapsed...
Also the politiqes of Mother Rusia is not aqay of thet... (see the First Afganistan war, Cecenia)
The only real problem that I have are gipsies.... in my contry they are the nightmares of all poeple... Play Diabo, or AVP2 (marine capagne at night with sorround:D)
You can't walk in thenight on the streets.... it's to dangeroaus...
Anyway let's go back to history... as every body knows.. the wars stars becose of the economy...
you remember the thing that starts the WW1.. the killing in Sarajevo the princee of Austro-ungarian empire... who could beleve that... a death bringing other few millions death....

Mircea the Oldman

10-08-2004, 09:02

the attack of Peral Harbor was a rat trap.... someone tell why the fleet was out of the harbor at the moment of the attack.... the ships that remain there... were.. "colateral damage" but the american poeple did'n see the trap... becose the trap wasn't for the Japanese, was for the american poeple who didn't want to get involved in the war.
He,he, looking througt history.... if the americans stayed away another year... ooooops :D the germans could really conquer the world... only if that bastard.. Hitler... agreed with his generals..... Ah, to many fronts in one time... West Europe, Est Europe, Africa, Norway.... Deam.. his is responsible of loosing war...
:(
I'm fascinated abot what did the german ingineers... a few more yeary and many progects were finished.. (Ar-555, Graf Zeppelin) and many others... Nuclear bomb.... etc.

HappyAdolf

10-08-2004, 10:21

If Rommel or another of Hitlers Feldmarschalls would have been the Führer, we would have won the war. I heard in TV in a history documentation that in D-Day they wanted to ask Hitler if they may use a tank army which they needed to ask him first to use them, but Hitler slept and didn't want to be woken up, so they coulndn't send the tanks as reinforcements!
But at least in economic ways he was a good Führer: Before the war started, he removed nearly all unemployment in Germany and made other great things for the German people. But later he became a bit crazy, and not only a bit...
But no one could know who is really responsible for the war... ofcourse, it is everytime the looser of the war, but I have a theory:
The Allies are responsible!
They defeated Germany and made Germany pay tons of money and resources and give away so much of their land... that resulted in many people becoming unemployed, in Inflation and thus in the people being unhappy. They all wanted revenge on the "evil" allies who did this to them. And this was really a bad thing. The amount of money they had to pay was so huge that they would have to pay even today! So the people of Germany wanted revenge, so they all liked it when Hitler started the war. If we wouldn't have been forced to give away so much, we would maybe not have started the war!
Or the allies might just have let Germany win the first World War and then they wouldnd't have had to start a second one :D
Then we would still have our old Kaiser and a good old Monarchy and Hitler would maybe never have come to rule...
But then there wouldn't be so many interesting WW2 PC-games :D

Mircea the Oldman

10-08-2004, 10:34

He,he!! You're right!

Well.. as you spoke he was sleeping when the felmareshals need him... a furer never sleep when the Reich needs him....
well.. we can't change history.. do we?

HappyAdolf

10-08-2004, 10:45

In Star Trek there is a theory: If you fly very fast (at least warp 10) and somehow there is a subspace thingie or what then you can time-travel :D
I would like to try to change history... by being the Führer myself :D
And then travel back into the present and look what I did. If it's good, good. If not, I'll try again :D

timurlenk

10-08-2004, 10:59

oh my god.
happy adolf, still believing in fairy tales? :nono:

1. If Rommel or another of Hitlers Feldmarschalls would have been the Führer, we would have won the war. I heard in TV in a history documentation that in D-Day they wanted to ask Hitler if they may use a tank army which they needed to ask him first to use them, but Hitler slept and didn't want to be woken up, so they coulndn't send the tanks as reinforcements!

interesting fairy tale, invented by a movie that name i cant remember.

2. But at least in economic ways he was a good Führer: Before the war started, he removed nearly all unemployment in Germany and made other great things for the German people.
sorry, thats f***ing bul***it. removing unemployment by killing / expelling jews and other "inferior" people, building war industry and decrease size of the wehrmacht cant be named as good economic way.
even if he did one or two good things for the reamaining germans, its absurd only to mention them in face of millions of his and his followers victims :angry: :angry:

3. They all wanted revenge on the "evil" allies who did this to them. And this was really a bad thing. The amount of money they had to pay was so huge that they would have to pay even today! So the people of Germany wanted revenge, so they all liked it when Hitler started the war.

yop, sure. except the tooth fairy, cinderella and maybe one or another :sad:

@ mircea
dont be too enthusiastic about the germans in ww2 - dont forget, they considered romanians as humans of minor value...

Mircea the Oldman

10-08-2004, 11:31

@timurlenk
I know that.. but.. till 23 august 1944 we were ally.. till Antonescu (our mareshal) was arested by the king.. bleah.. and we got to the other side... with that bastards.. russians and their allies.. that "burn" our countrry till 24 december 1989... ( Now we have other bastards that they calied themseves democrats....) piuf.. they meke me fill seek...
minor or not we were allies and we fought together on the south front in Russia

Mircea the Oldman

10-08-2004, 11:33

Oh, and by the way... my family tree gets from Bayern but taht is long ago... from the begining of 20th century.. before the WW1... where we were enemies...

Sir Turylon

10-08-2004, 18:31

you people forget something about pearl...

there was a total loss of 1 ship
just one. USS Arizona was the only one "lost"

The rest of the fleet was badly damaged, but due to the shallowness of the harbor, they were all restored, refitted, or salvaged in the year after the attack.

It is quite funny that the man who initiated the attack was trained in US, respected and admired the US military, and soon after the attack proclaimed that now Japan was going to lose the war. If the Japanese emperor was smart, he would have never attacked... Perhaps communism would never have spread so far in China, and Korean war would have never happended.... heh.

keep the anti-American Imperialism to a minimum... If you forget, Europe had far greater Imperialistic fervor. (Besides, if we actually wanted more land... canada is just a few feet to the north. haha, j/k eh) :cheers:

Hector

10-08-2004, 18:38

Japan had to attack cuz the US wouldnt sell any oil to Japan

Largefry07

10-08-2004, 18:41

Mircea the Oldman

10-08-2004, 18:51

Sir.. I missed another thing... No one is looking to control lansscape... it's onlythe economic part of it... many progects in Canada were cut off by no reason... aparently.. but the reasons were becose the thing of the rogect was bought from USA... I know for certain in the aircreft constructin but I guess that is not the only one.
I have nothing with them, I am not anti... till will afect my country directly.. becose indirectly every body is affected...
how old are you Turylon?
Oh, by the way: you are wright, you are american, it's your contry soo you can't say that was wrong what they made...
One question: Is it normal that they used the nuclear boms at Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Please answer.

From outside your contry I realised something, please don't get mad: America is a free contry... it is not, 99% of the poeple are manipulated... I will not continue to say other things becose the FBI brigade in Romania will knock at my door.... Knock, knock Neo.

Mircea the Oldman

10-08-2004, 19:04

@Largefly.... It is abot a war that is near us... a few years ago.. the chineese airplanes cought an american spyplane... was near a war.. really close... becose a Troian horse... that airplane...

Kuno of Gersenau

10-08-2004, 19:48

@HappyAdolf: Some things you write here are really sad and stupid, really...:nono: Please keep such things for you in the future!

Angryminer

10-08-2004, 19:59

Kuno:
Good that you mention that. HappyAdolf's posts are somewhere between ashaming and ridiculous...
May god have mercy and give him some wisdom. :nono:

Angryminer

HappyAdolf

10-08-2004, 20:22

But it is partly right, too...
It's a historical fact that Hitler did remove most unemployment before killing this much people for stupid reasons... but he was an *** anyway!
If I had been the Führer, I would have done everything right :D
But he is a good example that political might corrupts people. He abused his might to do those stupid ****ing sadistic things in his diseased mind... what an ***....