View Full Version : Passing thru Allied territory
as long as, you can pass the allie territory, it`s fine :D
that vassality is not in, is ok. dont now if "leibeigenschaft" is meant with that word.
Originally posted by Bora
as long as, you can pass the allie territory, it`s fine :D
that vassality is not in, is ok. dont now if "leibeigenschaft" is meant with that word.
Yes I think so....in Dutch. "Lijfeigenschap" but more like: "Leenheerschap" (Something with Loan (leen) Lord (heer) ship (schap)
think that "leibeigenschaft" more is personally not a country..
Originally posted by Arjenvs
Yes I think so....in Dutch. "Lijfeigenschap" but more like: "Leenheerschap" (Something with Loan (leen) Lord (heer) ship (schap)
think that "leibeigenschaft" more is personally not a country..
then maybe its different,... in the earyl medieval it was often so, that poor poeple where not free,... they where owned by the king/lord (what ever) that also meaned when theye "master" was at war they MUST go with him to fight the enemy.
the word "leibeigenschaft" means in englisch translatet word by word "own the body"
Originally posted by Bora
then maybe its different,... in the earyl medieval it was often so, that poor poeple where not free,... they where owned by the king/lord (what ever) that also meaned when theye "master" was at war they MUST go with him to fight the enemy.
the word "leibeigenschaft" means in englisch translatet word by word "own the body"
that is indeed not the same as a Vassal.....
a Vassal just means they "loan" the land as a country or something like that.....and they must pay like half the tax income.....
Originally posted by Arjenvs
that is indeed not the same as a Vassal.....
a Vassal just means they "loan" the land as a country or something like that.....and they must pay like half the tax income.....
but i dont care if vassals or "leibeigene" are not in, even if its more historical and realistic.
its not usefull to fight with farmes on the battlefield
cause:
1. they have poor motivation
2. poor weapons
3. not really scilled as soldiers
the only "+" is, that they are cheap, but thats all!
they should take care about the farms and feed the pigs and the cows
Originally posted by Bora
but i dont care if vassals or "leibeigene" are not in, even if its more historical and realistic.
its not usefull to fight with farmes on the battlefield
cause:
1. they have poor motivation
2. poor weapons
3. not really scilled as soldiers
the only "+" is, that they are cheap, but thats all!
they should take care about the farms and feed the pigs and the cows
A vassal is not a farmer.....
it is a whole country that makes it's own disissions and own wars...you can be allied to your vassal...but also not....
Originally posted by Bora
then maybe its different,... in the earyl medieval it was often so, that poor poeple where not free,... they where owned by the king/lord (what ever) that also meaned when theye "master" was at war they MUST go with him to fight the enemy.
the word "leibeigenschaft" means in englisch translatet word by word "own the body"
I'l agree with you on that one Bora - peasants was just
1. Used a labour
2. Tax objects
3. Recruits for the army ( often by force )
"leibeigenschaft"
I guess the english word for it is serfdom.
Vassal in german is Vasall
greywulf
08-12-2003, 20:57
A vassal is a knight granted land by the king. A serf is a peasant who was tied to the land for life.
Originally posted by greywulf
A vassal is a knight granted land by the king. A serf is a peasant who was tied to the land for life.
Indeed...that were the words I was looking for!!!
But what if a country becomes a vassal of an other country....
Originally posted by Arjenvs
Indeed...that were the words I was looking for!!!
But what if a country becomes a vassal of an other country....
Then, there can be problem (Edward III. Plantagenet and Philippe VI. de Valois:)) or not (Philippe IV. the Fair and HenryVII. of Luxembourg, the Holy Roman Emperor, vassal of him). Joke:)
Vasal states were e.i. Transylvaina (Turkish). It's formally "independent" state on the border of mighty one (Transylvania and Osman Turks in17th cent., France and Navarre/Andorra in16th cent./now)etc. informally allies. The mighty one doesn't want to conquere the weaker or weaker is not so weak but is good to him to have strong one behind him, but the foreign policy is dependent on the mighty one's will.
Vasal stayte may pay some tribute etc.
greywulf
09-12-2003, 02:35
I don't think a country per say can become a vassal of another. Pieces of land can become vassals once conquered and given by the conqueror to his knights. If you conquered a whole country(kingdom i think is a better word), then it would be divided up for the knights that fought for you. So the old kingdom is dissolved and incorporated into your own.
By definition, a king can't become a vassal because the king is the one who gives out the land. So maybe you keep the old king as a knight to govern a part of that land, but he is then no longer a king. I don't know if KOH works the same way though.
Originally posted by greywulf
I don't think a country per say can become a vassal of another. Pieces of land can become vassals once conquered and given by the conqueror to his knights. If you conquered a whole country(kingdom i think is a better word), then it would be divided up for the knights that fought for you. So the old kingdom is dissolved and incorporated into your own.
By definition, a king can't become a vassal because the king is the one who gives out the land. So maybe you keep the old king as a knight to govern a part of that land, but he is then no longer a king. I don't know if KOH works the same way though.
In Europa Universalis there was a vasal system....you could offer them in diplo..when with a royal marriage a alliance and a good relationship....also force them after war.....
there king then just stayed king...and you also could go to war with them...and with others without them... or tehy without you....
greywulf
10-12-2003, 08:46
I think the feudal vassal system and the renaissance vassal system where two different things. In the renaissance, title was not as important as actually social standing. You could have many kings under a greater king. Plus you could rule another country indirectly through diplomacy rather then conquest. But in a feudal system, the king gave out land and protection. I suppose there could be smaller kingdoms that become vassals to larger ones, either through force or marriage, that keep their kings, but they are only kings in name. They lose their autonomy and no longer hold the powers of a king, becoming a mere lord.
I suppose there could be smaller kingdoms that become vassals to larger ones, either through force or marriage, that keep their kings, but they are only kings in name. They lose their autonomy and no longer hold the powers of a king, becoming a mere lord. [/B]
I'm not sure with your renaissance theory about non-importance of titles 'cause they were still very important, but, if I paraphrase Macchiavelli, title wasn't as important as power. To answer you:
Originally posted by Frujin
Yeah, but we still have tribute. During the game you may need to pay tribute to the most powerful neighbors of you. Just to save your skin :)
Also, you may demand tribute from the others. This makes them :angry:, so think carefuly!
I hope that's what you wanna see. It's not real vassality, but it's not so far, I hope it can be supported by some diplomatical action, like some treaty where you promisse paying some tribute for some kind of alliance/vassality/protection in certain conditions:)
Originally posted by Elewyn
I hope that's what you wanna see. It's not real vassality, but it's not so far, I hope it can be supported by some diplomatical action, like some treaty where you promisse paying some tribute for some kind of alliance/vassality/protection in certain conditions:)
You I think that will do...and will come close to thing tah I like to see!!!!!:cheers:
anyway,... no vassals needed,... :)
greywulf
10-12-2003, 19:42
Originally posted by Elewyn
I'm not sure with your renaissance theory about non-importance of titles 'cause they were still very important, but, if I paraphrase Macchiavelli, title wasn't as important as power. To answer you:
That's exactly what I meant. It was the power behind the title that set people as rulers, not the title itself which would happen in a feudal system where a king was a king only because of his birth. A renaissance king, like in europa, needed to rule by more then just family ties. Tribute systems will be interesting. This game looks great.
can you show us in some close time period list of diplomatical actions?
I'm writing it here coz it is an interesting thread and newer members maybe didn't visit it and the question is a bit concerning to this theme
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