View Full Version : Please scroll in CV
Originally posted by Frujin
Uhm... don't you like WV as well?! :)
yes, its also nice. but the close view is more interesting. its the same like with the landscape of a modell train. as more detailed tt is as more you like to watch it. so would be nice if its more often possible to see the CV
one of the important points why many of us love this game are the detailed and very good looking close views.
so it would be really cool if it would work a bit like in civilisation: there you can klick on your towns in close view and see the improvements. only with thew diffrence in KoH that you see also your people working and lifing. so a bit like "the settllers" :)
Originally posted by Frank Fay
Gameplay wise you wont need to do inspection in the CV. The WV is the main game view and you manage your kingdom from there.
For the CV we decided to make it battle only. Also this allows us that the maps are going to be optimized for gameplay and allow very tactical battles.
would it do damge to the performance if you where abel to watch your, towns, villages, farms, etc. in close vew via "klick&watch" anytime you want?
Frank Fay
28-03-2004, 21:15
No, of course not but the maps are designed for battles...
Im with Bora on this. From all the screenshots I assumed that WV was an overview and then you could use the CV to see what was actually going on, watch the world go by make decisions for your cities and towns and see what peasants you have working, thats sort of thing. I think it is a great loss to only have battles in this view.
Its been said repeatedly that the WV is only a representation. Well if you cant zoom in to see what it represents how do you know whats there?? I originally liked this game for the CV look of it and the hundreds of possibilities created by zooming in to any point of the map to see what was really going on.
Originally posted by Frank Fay
No, of course not but the maps are designed for battles...
ok, but you could alo add just a little nice feature where you also can see, towwn, villages, farms, etc. in your kingdom by just cklicking it.
if i am not completly wrong with my litte programming skills, the event of a battle, brings you to the close view. in case its one of you town it shows it with ALL the improvemnets and design it has at the current lvl.
so make aother event that the same happens by klicking on it (town, village, harbour, etc.) onyl that no battle hapnnes at that time.
i really bet that someone, who has build one of its castles to the last possible lvl, wants to see it how it lokks like in close view and not just wait till a battle happnes there :)
Frank Fay
29-03-2004, 11:57
well in battles you do something, in peace you dont. People and testers were expecting to do somethin there either. So they used one or two times and then not anymore. Due to the nature the maps are generated, they cant be filled with objects because you need to battle there...
We want that battles are really tactical, means areas of open space, heights etc. So the maps are there that all the battles take use of all the advantages of the battle system.
Take a look at the CV shots published so far. They look nice but you can not battle there good...
Of course all the objects will be there. There will be villagers, smoking chimey, castle walls etc. But having gameplay in mind...
Originally posted by Frank Fay
well in battles you do something, in peace you dont. People and testers were expecting to do somethin there either. So they used one or two times and then not anymore. Due to the nature the maps are generated, they cant be filled with objects because you need to battle there...
We want that battles are really tactical, means areas of open space, heights etc. So the maps are there that all the battles take use of all the advantages of the battle system.
Take a look at the CV shots published so far. They look nice but you can not battle there good...
Of course all the objects will be there. There will be villagers, smoking chimey, castle walls etc. But having gameplay in mind...
i just cant understand the testers who didnt use it :(
and battle is not all about the game, isnt it? as i know there also the diplomatic way and a lot of spionage, right? :)
but as i think there will be a manual with the game, right? so you could explain with some really few sentences, what you can and cant do. so if you wright when you watch a town in cv you can just watch your poeple over the shoulders, and manageing is only in world view. so i think people will be fine. and i think everyone will use this feature. of course some will use it more and some less.
so if its not so complicate to do it, let this feature be in, pleeeaaasse :)
Angryminer
29-03-2004, 15:43
It's very simple why the testers didn't use the CV for fun.
They a) had to do something particular (-> "Hey testers, try out our new feature, is it stable?") b) had europe running in the WV, which means a hell-lot-of-work. :D
However, I do admit that it's always nice for the user "to be able to" do something. That gives a feeling of freedom, and I am of the opinion that this heavily supports the King-feel ;) .
Angryminer
never thought about the king feeling in this case, but you are right :)
but the truteh is, taht the CV of towns, villages, farms, harbours, etc. is there, the only thing is that you need that "klick&watch" event.
and a the moment the only persons who are against it, are the developers ;)
I agree Bora, I agree so much! This game loses a ****load of "good-game-feeling" and freedom if this feature isn't in! It's just (sorry to the devs) stupid not to do it. While some ppl don't want it, other (i guess the majority) want it. I don't think it will require so much of an effort.
Also, let ppl scroll all over the entire game map, if they want to. it will satisfy players to have that freedom. Make kingdom management possible in CV too please! Along with click and watch function. You just need this ability.. to retire for a while and watch the life go on.. Please!
Originally posted by Maizena
I agree Bora, I agree so much! This game loses a ****load of "good-game-feeling" and freedom if this feature isn't in! It's just (sorry to the devs) stupid not to do it. While some ppl don't want it, other (i guess the majority) want it. I don't think it will require so much of an effort.
Also, let ppl scroll all over the entire game map, if they want to. it will satisfy players to have that freedom. Make kingdom management possible in CV too please! Along with click and watch function. You just need this ability.. to retire for a while and watch the life go on.. Please!
you dont got me 100% right. the point is not where to manage the game, the point is what you want to see.
according frank, the CV is only planed for battle cause there is no mangement. so i dont care if the managemnet is only in world view as long as there is the option to have a look on you people in close view wehn ever you wants it.
so i compre that a bit to civilisationwhere you also had the option to look how you city looks like at the current status, nothing less, nothing more. excpet that in KoH everything is moving and is not a freezed picture.
at the moment i can only talk for most of the forum users, but almost 80% (the vote) want to take a look in cv on the people an buildings
Right you are. but when i said i wanted magagementpossible in CV too, it was my personal suggestion :)
To the devs: What is the purpose of this forum, if it is not, that you want people to tell you what they feel about the game? Where is the idea behind the forum, if you insist on making this game as you want it, but not as WE want it? It is, afterall us, who are going to buy, play and be happy with this game. If you aren't listening to us, to whom are you then listening? (sorry for being somewhat aggresive :) ) I just think it's a really great idea to make a forum and ask ppl what they think, and let'em follow the game being born, but this effect vanishes if you don't want to change the game..
Excuse me, but I thjink your post is very unfair to the devs.
They simply cannot do everything what WE, future possible BUYERS of the game want.
Remember that they have some concept of the game and some suggestions or complaints can destroy it or move it to little diferent kind of game. Yes, I must say that I don't think this particular problem of scrolling inCV will change it dramaticaly, but the fact is, as Frank more than once said, that main view if KoH is the World view.
And to the purpouse of the Forum. I don't know how long you are member, but since I am they changed many things as we, members of forum, asked them to. Examples? I can't remembet all, but at least these:
1) in the beggining, thae planned only one RELIGION. After our complaints about muslim influence and high-cultural and powerfull ORTHODOX Byzantine empire and the fact that most European nations came from paganism, which lasted in significant parts of eastern Europe to high medieval, they changed it and now, there are 4 religions in KoH
2)map was extended to areas of Near East and notrhern Africa, what also wasn't planed before.
3)originally they promissed a little more than 25 unique units. After devs showed us first (and actual) unit showcase, there was 27 units, which was not enough in opinion of most of us. I know it goes hand to hand with map extension, where more muslim areas are included, but they are going to add some more units to Eastern Europe and muslims. This all after they told us that unit showcase contains of all units and nothing will be added!!
4)I can't forget to my personal win, when some nations like Bohemia will be playable, even it didn't seem to be very probable.
Yes, those changes were done after they wanted to change it. But I'm strictly against your words that they INSIST on their ideas!!!!
I think they do great work and listen us as they can, participate this forum by explaining etc. Their main work is to make the game as good as possible. If they would do everything anybody asked them to, they 1)will never finish the work, because when they change one or 2 things, somebody else will come with third snd fourth etc.
2) final game will be very diferent, so from RTS it will be hybrid (realtime battles, turn "management of kingdom", as somebody suggested) and mixture of wonderful details without unifying idea!
That's my point.
PS: when screaming:"Hey! Listen!!! They do nothing for us, you insist on your stupid ideas without any hearing of ME!!!!" you will change nothing, except their opinoin of you-sbdy who wants better game- to sbdy who is insisting on his "perfect" idea, but doesn't imagine how the whole game would work
Frank Fay
01-04-2004, 09:15
Please have in mind that the team works since almost 3 years on the game and that they do things for many reasons.
Look, we want to be honest and want that you do not get wrong expectations about the game. This is an example, where you had something else in mind. We played the game, we tested the game, we changed, we retested etc. That was a long way to there where we are now and we think it is the right way.
But there are two other possibilities, regarding sharing information:
- We dont answer
- We lie
What do you want? I prefer to say the truth...
As you can see already, many of your wishes have been incorporated. But not all can for many reasons, technically, philosophically or economically.
And this map thing has a lot of reasons. Many of them are not be discussed at this point and not here.
My advice if you now hate the game because of that, play the demo when it is out, read the post mortem and then decide to purchase.
But I swear to you, we do not make this game for our own good, we listen and hear and get suggestions since 3 years. We want to make the game for you guys and we want to make it for everyone right. But it is NOT possible to meet all expactions. But want that everyone knows what he is expecting and what not. You can bash us all the way long when the game is out.
As more we disclose as more you may not like something. Please tell us, but please bear in mind that we can not make all...
And maybe it is important to remind that the WV and CV are NOT an exact match. They were but it caused lots of problems. So what you say is that you want to build a structure and want to see it in CV -> wont be there.
Also you say you want to zoom when you want. The CV maps are handcrafted. Because you battle they have to have empty spaces, terrain advantages and disadvantages. But the ones you want, shall be made for the eye, loads of objects, loads of buildings, villagers performing their jobs, buys towns etc. -> like in city builder games
I dont say the CV maps now look bad, but they are meant for one purpose to battle. When you zoom in peace they would not be that what you want. As said above, there is no exact match. If you build a cathedral in WV, there is no cathedral in CV (visually).
Well maybe Frujin, wants to ad here something...
i understand you point, frank.
i dont know if you fallow the other RTS games coming out this year? but that what you describes was like in mtw,... you build something, you had a battle there,... you dindt see it in cv/battle view,... in rtw if will be a major optical point that you see verything you bild on wv alo in cv/battle view.
i know the guys using another engine, at least cv is all in 3d in rtw.
but i think its mean from bss and sunflowers to tease us with some really good looking close view screenshots and then just a few days later: sorry guys, its not in the released version!
i know its not bad intention, but i just cant understand that this is technically so impossible or difficult as you describe. rtw can do it, why not you? sad that you want or mustt stand in this point behind it :(
sorry if its not that what you (bss and sunflowers) like to hear. but i also want to be honest, so i say when i like something and i say whn i dont like something and in this case KoH makes a step back in my opinion, sorry
Frank Fay
01-04-2004, 11:49
but i think its mean from bss and sunflowers to tease us with some really good looking close view screenshots and then just a few days later: sorry guys, its not in the released version!
No no no, you get me wrong. You will see all what was on the shots. Nothing wont be missed there... The civilian units, the smoking chimeys, all buildings. The only thing what is different is that you see this when a battle happens.
But you can imagine that some of the shots were custom made (in the editor), when the game was still in design or we tested some areas. And we wanted it to have in peace but it simply worked not out for several reasons. Conclusion here -> no shots available until a point nothing will change aynmore, same goes for informaiton. But didnt you want us to share with you evolvement?
But you should not forget that we have much more battle types...
And on different terrains etc. Locations..., zone, towns etc.
And comparing A can something but B cant it is not the right way. A can have something B wont have and vice versa.
Originally posted by Frank Fay
No no no, you get me wrong. You will see all what was on the shots. Nothing wont be missed there... The civilian units, the smoking chimeys, all buildings. The only thing what is different is that you see this when a battle happens.
But you can imagine that some of the shots were custom made (in the editor), when the game was still in design or we tested some areas. And we wanted it to have in peace but it simply worked not out for several reasons. Conclusion here -> no shots available until a point nothing will change aynmore, same goes for informaiton. But didnt you want us to share with you evolvement?
But you should not forget that we have much more battle types...
And on different terrains etc. Locations..., zone, towns etc.
And comparing A can something but B cant it is not the right way. A can have something B wont have and vice versa.
sorry frank this is confusing me. in one of the posts i read out that it will not be as we expect in the next its different again,...
so just to ask WHEN can i see peoples in buildings in CV as we see it in the gallery and when NOT
Frank Fay
01-04-2004, 12:13
yes you will ALL you saw in the CV shots but maybe different composed.
For instance take a shots of a farm with very close farm houses and fields. Now they will be more appart to allow tactical battles, like allowing to make formations and maybe some hill areas etc. More open space but same level of detail...
Originally posted by Frank Fay
yes you will ALL you saw in the CV shots but maybe different composed.
For instance take a shots of a farm with very close farm houses and fields. Now they will be more appart to allow tactical battles, like allowing to make formations and maybe some hill areas etc. More open space but same level of detail...
so same for all battlemaps,... you just made more space for the soldeirs, right? reson: youcan tscroll in battlemaps, right?
Frank Fay
01-04-2004, 12:24
yes all maps...
and you can scroll them...but of course only between their boundaries... They are not unlimited large.
And yes for the soldiers, that they formations and terrain can be incorporated more into the battles.
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