OK my first post (and question!)

[timurlenk]

Originally posted by Drake Maethor
Maybe just some crusader type of cavalry (as someone suggested) would have been a nice solution... (There was one in CIV2) But OK, is just a simple wish.

yes, the (light blue) crusader knights with (5/1/2). normal (red) knights had (4/2/2). that means: crusaders were better in attacks, but weaker in defense than knights.

thats a way i can imagine how to implement teutonic knights and templar knights in koh - better attack, but weaker defense abilities.




The paradox of the famous Orders of KNIGHTS units appearing as infantry instead of KNIGHTS.

touché :cheers:

[Elewyn]

maybe the diference is not so big problem-if there was no problem with difference between
1 Templars
2 Normans
3 Teutonic champions
4 Men-at-Arms
which are all very similar to each other, why there should be problem with diferences between:
1 feudal knights
2 Cataphracts
3 Templars
4 Teutonic champion
after and if teutons and templars move to cavalry units?

I don't know the parametres of quality in KoH, but I think it's:
1 fast of move (from the best to the worse: Feudals+Templars, Teutons+Cataphracts)
2 attack (Feudals+Teutons, Templars+Cataphracts
3 defence (Teutons+Cataphracts, Feudals+Templars)
4 morale/loyality (Templars+Cataphracts, Teutons, Feudals)

[Finellach]

Well if you put it that way then I agree. In fact I agreed with you that Teutonic Champs and Templars should be mounted almost from the start. :D

Anyway it would be nice if the devs could give us a word why these units are infantry and is it posibble to transfer them to mounted units because if you look at it we actually have 6 mounted units because I don't actually count King, Knights and their guards as mounted units or more correctly as cavlary and IMO they should be special units. The same goes for Royal Guards under polearm units.

Also I also petition for Crossbowman availability to Baltic countries as well since it has been provided with clear proof that they existed there and were in fact large advantage for Teutonic Order.

[benjamin]

Also the English and French should have crossbowmen, since Jeanne d'Arc got hit by an arrow of a crossbow during the siege at Les Tourelles or at Paris. Not sure which one was the crossbow arrow, but she was hit at both of those battles by an arrow, one them belonging to a crossbow.

[Finellach]

She lived in 15th century thus IMO no England and France should not have crossbowmans and also whats more one bolt should not be enough to claim there were Crossbowman's.

By such account I could also ask that devs put Templars in Croatia since there was a finding of a Templar church in Slavonia.

[Jarlabanke]

I was under the impression that the french were rather famous for their crossbows and also that that it was more or less used all over Europe, probably with the exception of Russia though.

[Drake Maethor]

Well, Joan was luckier than Richard!
Do you know how the Lionheart met his end?

Read this extract found in
http://www.medieval-warfare.co.uk/thecrossbow.htm
And also find a little of what history have to say about the use of crossbows in medieval times.

"An interesting historical footnote about the crossbow: in 1139 the Pope decreed crossbows to be too murderous for “Christian warfare” and directed an interdict against them. Naturally, he still encouraged their use against infidels. Richard the Lionheart disobeyed the edict and continued to employ crossbowmen in his armies. To the amused sense of irony for many of the period (and us), he was later killed by a crossbow bolt. "

And also this, found here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/beyond/factsheets/makhist/makhist5_prog5a.shtml

"By the end of the thirteenth century use of the crossbow had declined (I THINK HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE ENGLISH ARMIES) – it was being replaced by the longbow. At the Battle of Agincourt (1415) only a relative handful of the soldiers were crossbowmen while there were as many as 5,000 longbowmen. However, in Europe, the crossbow continued to be the preferred weapon until the end of the fifteenth century."

[Elewyn]

about Templars and Teutons, I can do nothing than agree with transfering them to monuted units if possible.

But for having them in Croatia (then must think about Bohemia, where they had some estates and churches, aslo Germany, England, Spain, Poland...) they were UNIVERSAL military order which had estates and knights all around Europe. By this principle, they should be available in every realm. But this is a game and we all must acknowledge that most of them were from France and french Templars were most famous, so they should be available in France.

One more piece about crosbows. in 14th and 15th century they were used almost everywhere, but this game covers time between 1000-1360 and all units should be only in those regions they were famous in. So nobody will have any word aggainst crossbows in Italy and Switzerland, italian crossbowmen were used as mercs allaround western Europe. Then I must be on the side of "teutonic crossbows", so IMO crossbows should be also available in all realms where Teutons are.

Not in England which "produced" another far more famous distance unit-LONGBOWMEN- little later, maybe in some parts of France, but not whole, maybe for Catalonia/Aragon, maybe for Bohemia (our famous hussite pavisse crossbowmen from 15th century)

Devs....any comments?

[Finellach]

Great assertion Elewyn, my points excatly. :D

Devs?!...

[Elewyn]

I'm not sure if my point was clear in my previous post.

Templars: should be mounted and available where they are now (realms of central France - probably Ille-de-France=Francia, Anjou, Bourgogne, Aquitaine, Champagne, Auverge?)

Crossbowmen: let them be available where they are+in all realms where Teutonic champions(mounted if possible) are available +maybe Catalonia and south of France + maybe in Bohemia, whch was famous for it's hussite pavise crssbowmen

[Haegemon]

In a few words: Templars should be mounted.

PD: Crossbows were also used in Valence/Valencia in times of the Kingdom of Aragón.
In Catalonia crossbows were used but the common weapons were the sword, the dagger, the assegay and the lance. Also were used the battle-axe and the mace.

[Finellach]

Well I see where this is going and I must say that it impossible. The best would be if every country would have their own unique army, but that's not posibble. So not to exaggerate we should agree that Templars and Teutons should be mounted and that Crossbows were used in Baltic, but IMO it's fine as it is right now.

[Elewyn]

I think Haegemon only tried to inform us, not trying to ask: "Give all those "weapons" to Aragon".

It was perhaps a reaction to my post where I suggested crsbws ito Catalonia(so Aragon in KoH). It's very tempting to exaggerate our "requirements" :( Each of us (unfortunately) did or do it sometimes, but IMO it's not a case of Haegemon now :)

I agree with changes "fixed"in your post as most of us would demand. Crsbws on Balt, T+T mounted :angel:

[Haegemon]

@Elewyn, yes that's right. ;)

[Drake Maethor]

The Devs remain silent....
Maybe some good surprise awaiting in the unrevealed units??
(mounted T?) :rolleyes:

Or maybe not... :mad:

Anyway, better not creating expectations...

But silent they remain!

[Emhyr var Emreis]

I don't think it will be good if T's will be both cavalry and infantry unit.

There are few reasons why they're silent.

1. Don't want to disappoint our desires.
2. Are not sure if they'll change it or not
3. i don't know

[Finellach]

I think the number three is the most likely to be the truth. :D :p

[Elewyn]

I'm affraid they don't want to disappoint us, so don't post anything here to let a hope alive...

and maybe if there will be some time left, they will consider it and...

Dreamer... I'm just a dreamer...:angel:

[timurlenk]

i think so too :sad:


but devs, please, can you tell us if there is any chance to buy them horses?
if there is a chance, we could make a poll (yeah, democracy :D ), just to know what community thinks / wants, hmm?

if there is no chance, we concentrate our energy on other senseless exorbitant demands :dwink:

[Elewyn]

I'm not sure if that makes sense to create such a poll. If I will find it useless I'll delete it, if not, it may live and (I hope) influence something

a poll to this topic (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1049)