D-day's 60 years anniversary

[HappyAdolf]

Yeah, he knew. He was a great soldier! But Hitler was an idiot. If Rommel would have been our leader, we would have won and we wouldn't have had such a cruel regieme! Hitler was an idiot.

[Ledhead]

i'm sorry that I have to disagree a bit there.
Rommel was a brilliant tactician, and charismatic. But he was weak with logistics, and his vanity sometimes led to more casualties than necessary. Erich von Manstein was a more complete commander.
Unfortunatelly they never stod up to Hitler, even if they weren't nazis. They were just happy fighting for Germany with no consideration for the politics behind.
Gerd von Rundstedt told Hitler to piss off a couple of times, but even he returned to sevice.
Hitler was a bold tactician and caught his enemies with surprise on the battlefield, but didn't have a clue about air- or navy war or logistics.
Germany had no chance with him as leader, thank God...

[HappyAdolf]

The best thing would've been if someone made an revolution and killed Hitler. But Hitler was not the one who was responsible for killing so many innocents, i think. I think it was Heinrich Himmler, Reichsführer SS. He had the main idea of Germans being supreme- okay, that was not bad, but he thought that all of the other ''lesser'' races had to be wiped out.

[Ledhead]

All the German attacks during the war was ordered by Hitler. Polands casualties was about 6 million and Sovietunion about 20 millions (IIRC), and you say Hitler wasn't responsible for killing innocents...?
Next you'll be saying he didn't know anything about the concentration camps and the 6 million jews either...
We have to be very careful with history, we can't go saying that Hitler was OK because of some of the things he did (which almost everything he is over credited for!) when he led Europe to war for 6 years and the results were millions of dead and genocide!
Don't forget, without the war central European countries like Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, AMO, wouldn't have lived under communist oppression, also with a lot of dead people as a result.
Hitler was a psychopath. If some people belong to a lesser race then a lot of the people closest to Hitler belong to them: Göring was a heroinist, Goebels a crippled midget and Himmler a physical weakling, and what about Hitler himself...
So much for the master race...

[HappyAdolf]

Buut... I said that Hitler didn't have the IDEA of KZs, I didn't say that he didn't KNOW about them. And I didn't talk about his attacks. But he was an asshole anyway.... and about the master race: Hitler and co. were not people of the master race! They said the Germans are big, blonde and blue-eyed. Hitler, Göring, Himmler were small and black-haired.

[Ledhead]

You said that he wasn't responsible for the deaths of innocent people and I gave you some examples that he was.
He ordered the final sollution for the jews, he did not specify in what way. don't remember who came up with the idea of gassing the jews but Hitler sure approved of the idea and signed the carrying out of the extermination.
Talk about that Hitler wasn't so bad makes me really afraid of the future...

[HappyAdolf]

Yeah, think about Bush making war just like he wants when all others disagree...... once America liberated Europe... now we Germans and the rest of EU will probably have to liberate the USA from Bush..... hope no one's gonna vote for him next time...

[Kuno of Gersenau]

Bush isn't Hitler and he will never be it!

He is a bad president, that's true (in my opinion), but you shouldn't copare him with Hitler. Hitler was the reason for millions of death Bush not. Bush and his government are the reason for some thousand deaths in the Iraq-war (in my opinion), thats also terrible, but not so terrible like the nazis...

I really dislike Bush, but I would never say that he is a second Hitler...

PS: And Bush is also better than Saddam...

[Ledhead]

Originally posted by HappyAdolf
Yeah, think about Bush making war just like he wants when all others disagree...... once America liberated Europe... now we Germans and the rest of EU will probably have to liberate the USA from Bush..... hope no one's gonna vote for him next time...

Right beside you on this one!

Remember that the US only joined the allies when they themsleves got attacked by Japan!
The US didn't liberate us for their high love of democracy or freedom, or they would have done something about the nazis earlier.
They "liberated" us when they realised that the Soviets was going west a little to fast.

[HappyAdolf]

Okay, Bush IS better than Saddam, but Hitler was a good politician at the beginning. But then he used his power to do bad things..... what I mean is, anyone can use his powers to do bad things to people he don't like etc. Power corrupts people.

[Ledhead]

Bush does not by far near Hitler.
but they do have one similarity, they both think that the world is their playground.

[HappyAdolf]

Right you are. They both just think about theirselves what happens to others is just not important.

[Kuno of Gersenau]

Hitler a good politican, maybe first it looked like, but from the begin he wanted the war...

In the 30these he produced a lot of weapons, he build highways (later this were the march-routes) and he gave the people the feeling to be a great nation.

Clear so were created a lot of new jobs and the people thougt that he was a good politican, but his plans were the war from the beginning. He simly couldn't say something like this at the start...

And what is with "Mein Kampf"? I think this book he wrote before he became the "Führer"...

But anyway we should stop this discussion about Bush <=> Hitler, or I have the feeling this tread will getting closed.

[HappyAdolf]

Hmm.... right you are. But I hate both of them
But I like also to make jokes about them:D

[Angryminer]

Hitler a good politican, maybe first it looked like, but from the begin he wanted the war...Wasn't that exactly what the mayority of the people wanted? He didn't force them to go to war, he helped them.
Everyone wanted revenge for WWI and the "Versaille Treaty".

Angryminer

[Sir Turylon]

Originally posted by Elewyn
those "uncovered Soviet troops"... guess who it was.

Political opponents.
In Czechoslovakian history we have one battle like this:
Battle of Dukla pass. It was the most suicidal way how to get to Czechoslovakia, strongly "fortified", but many "inloyal" Czecholsovakian and Ukrainian soldiers lost their lives there, because of order from the Kremlin.

Landing in Dalmatia would mean real deliberation of Europe, but western Allies couldn't afford that because they promissed to Stalin openeng a new front, not deliberation of Soviet zone of interest.

not only were those "conscripts" ill-trained and ill-covered. Many of them were forced of the boats just to run into the german lines. That movie does a great justice to the effective brutality of the Russian war machine at that time.

@opposition to landings.

They were really not as bad as many think they were. For instance, at Utah beach the 4th Inf Division was able to get off the beach in a matter of minutes. Gold, Juno, Sword. They were able to push off the beaches fairly easily. The opposition did not stiffen until they started on the mach to Caen. At Omaha, the cliffs overlooking dog one, dog two, dog three (the eit points) really played havoc with the landings.

You Europeans should stay out of American politics. You have enough political problems over there with your contries about to lose their soveriegnty to the freakung EU. ;) That is all I am going to say.

Vive le France, Vive le Liberty!

[Kuno of Gersenau]

@Angryminer:
Hmm...yes, you are right, the reason for the 2WW was the end of the 1WW...

EDIT:
@Sir Turylon:
Maybe you are right, but this is how it is with the US-President, everybody on the World has his opinion about him...

[Rnett]

Originally posted by Kuno of Gersenau
Hitler a good politican, maybe first it looked like, but from the begin he wanted the war...

In the 30these he produced a lot of weapons, he build highways (later this were the march-routes) and he gave the people the feeling to be a great nation.

Clear so were created a lot of new jobs and the people thougt that he was a good politican, but his plans were the war from the beginning. He simly couldn't say something like this at the start...

And what is with "Mein Kampf"? I think this book he wrote before he became the "Führer"...

But anyway we should stop this discussion about Bush <=> Hitler, or I have the feeling this tread will getting closed.

Yes, he wrote "Mein Kampf" when he was in jail in 1924.

[Sir Turylon]

the reasons for WW2 are not just found in WW1. If the depression didn't happen, if Russian revolution did not happen, if US did not force Japan to open its borders to trade, if the league of nations had the US in it.... so many different reasons why it started.

btw, far as I can recall, the people of Germany were more afraid of the Communist problem to their east then they were wanting to seek revenge on the west.

Just look at how Hitler became Fuhrer. He became nominee of Socialist party, which turned into Nazi party. He won race into the reichstag on an anti-communist ticket. He helped secure huge amounts of the seats in the (what's the house of representavies in Germany called?)... He then ran for chancellor. Won it because his party controled the house. He then proclaimed himself fuhrer and disbanded the repesentatives. The communist threat, along with the bullying of votes (ie, forcing somebody to vote a way they do not want to).

To quote a very famous promise Hitler once made.. "Give me five years and you will not recognize Germany." Well, at least he kept that one. ;)

@Kuno. yep... just wish it wasn't such an un-informed opinion ;)

btw, Germany chancellor is a wuss, and French PM is a complete cheesehead. lol
maybe we should come save you guys from yourselves again. ;)
:cheers:

[HappyAdolf]

Yeah, do that:D