Elewyn
09-06-2004, 09:52
some things about history of your region. I will tell you only relevant periods, so let's say since Frankish empire of Charlemagne (Carolus magnus).
In 800, when he became emperor, Whole Low countries were part of his empire. His ancestors had some regular problems with Frieses, but they already were defeated.
843 Verdun treaty, division of Frankish empire to 3 parts: West (core od France, includes Flandre), central- Lotharingia (description by nowadays provinces and cities:Friesland, Utrecht, Nijmegen, Antwerpen, Cambrai, Köln, Verdun, Trier, Metz, Toul - province Lorraine, Besancon, Basel, Geneve, Lyon, Arles +northern Italy) and Eastern which corresponded with West Germany until 1989+western parts of Austria and east of Switzerland
Central part splited into 3 parts: Lotharingia(north of Basel), Burgundy (west of Alps) and Italy. Thos one by one became parts of Eastern empire, forst Lotharingia, then Italy, then Burgundy.
Rulers of Eastern frankish empire became Roman emperors in 962 with OttoI.
Low countries as well as the rest of this Roman Empire (since 1158 Holy Empire, since 1254 Holy Roman Empire) splited into smalled duchies and counties, but under souvereignrule of the Emperor. Low counrties splited into: Hainaut(Hennegau), Brabant, Luxembourg, Limburg, Liege, Zeeland, Holland, Gelre, Utrecht and Friesland and Flandre, vassal of France. There were local count dynasties, but they were not independent, they were subjected to imperial laws and were officialy represented by the Emperor. Almost all those provinces became in late 14th and 15th century part Duchy of Burgundy (including Flandre).
In 1477 Charles, Duke of Burgundy died without an heir, and his dominions were divided between Spanish Habsburgs (whole Low countries, Franche-Comté) and France (Artois, Burgundy itself).
After reformation in 16th century northern part of so called Spanish Netherlands became mainly calvinistic and in 1582 declared independance as United provinces of Netherlands. It was Holland, Gelre, Utrecht Friesland and some smaller ones. Southern part stayed under Spanish rule (mostly nowadays Belgium and Luxembourg.
In 1648 Habsburgs accepted officially independence of United provinces. etc.
So... Until 1582 the Netherlands was under foreign rule, however local dynasties were half- independent as vassals of HRE and France. in 13th and 14th century Flandre and Brabant were politicaly very strong, so in system of KoH they would deserve being vassal states of France (as Flandre because no Brabant is in KoH) the rest can be given half-independence in entry point in 1350, so Friesland may be vassal of the HRE in late period, Flandre probably part of Burgundy (historicaly since 1364).
What I suggest about Netherlands and Belgium in KoH?
early middle ages
900: both provinces as part of Lotharingia
1000: Flandre-part of France, Friesland-part of HRE
high middle ages
1200. Flandre-playable vassal state of France (Belgium is happy :cheers: ), Friesland-part of HRE
late middle ages
1350: Flandre-part of Burgundy, Friesland-playable vassal state of HRE/Germany (the Dutch are happy :cheers: )
absolutely refuse calling any state by actual names! No Netherlands, no Belgium, no Czech Republic, no Belarus, No Slovakia, no Greece, no Germany, no Spain, no Latvia, no Yugoslavia, no Albania, no Slovenia, no Romania etc.
In 800, when he became emperor, Whole Low countries were part of his empire. His ancestors had some regular problems with Frieses, but they already were defeated.
843 Verdun treaty, division of Frankish empire to 3 parts: West (core od France, includes Flandre), central- Lotharingia (description by nowadays provinces and cities:Friesland, Utrecht, Nijmegen, Antwerpen, Cambrai, Köln, Verdun, Trier, Metz, Toul - province Lorraine, Besancon, Basel, Geneve, Lyon, Arles +northern Italy) and Eastern which corresponded with West Germany until 1989+western parts of Austria and east of Switzerland
Central part splited into 3 parts: Lotharingia(north of Basel), Burgundy (west of Alps) and Italy. Thos one by one became parts of Eastern empire, forst Lotharingia, then Italy, then Burgundy.
Rulers of Eastern frankish empire became Roman emperors in 962 with OttoI.
Low countries as well as the rest of this Roman Empire (since 1158 Holy Empire, since 1254 Holy Roman Empire) splited into smalled duchies and counties, but under souvereignrule of the Emperor. Low counrties splited into: Hainaut(Hennegau), Brabant, Luxembourg, Limburg, Liege, Zeeland, Holland, Gelre, Utrecht and Friesland and Flandre, vassal of France. There were local count dynasties, but they were not independent, they were subjected to imperial laws and were officialy represented by the Emperor. Almost all those provinces became in late 14th and 15th century part Duchy of Burgundy (including Flandre).
In 1477 Charles, Duke of Burgundy died without an heir, and his dominions were divided between Spanish Habsburgs (whole Low countries, Franche-Comté) and France (Artois, Burgundy itself).
After reformation in 16th century northern part of so called Spanish Netherlands became mainly calvinistic and in 1582 declared independance as United provinces of Netherlands. It was Holland, Gelre, Utrecht Friesland and some smaller ones. Southern part stayed under Spanish rule (mostly nowadays Belgium and Luxembourg.
In 1648 Habsburgs accepted officially independence of United provinces. etc.
So... Until 1582 the Netherlands was under foreign rule, however local dynasties were half- independent as vassals of HRE and France. in 13th and 14th century Flandre and Brabant were politicaly very strong, so in system of KoH they would deserve being vassal states of France (as Flandre because no Brabant is in KoH) the rest can be given half-independence in entry point in 1350, so Friesland may be vassal of the HRE in late period, Flandre probably part of Burgundy (historicaly since 1364).
What I suggest about Netherlands and Belgium in KoH?
early middle ages
900: both provinces as part of Lotharingia
1000: Flandre-part of France, Friesland-part of HRE
high middle ages
1200. Flandre-playable vassal state of France (Belgium is happy :cheers: ), Friesland-part of HRE
late middle ages
1350: Flandre-part of Burgundy, Friesland-playable vassal state of HRE/Germany (the Dutch are happy :cheers: )
absolutely refuse calling any state by actual names! No Netherlands, no Belgium, no Czech Republic, no Belarus, No Slovakia, no Greece, no Germany, no Spain, no Latvia, no Yugoslavia, no Albania, no Slovenia, no Romania etc.