Ledhead
29-07-2004, 01:18
Why yes. Constantine was the Roman Emperor. Here's the point, there was no Emeperor in Rome after the "emperor's seat of power" was moved to Constantinople. There still was a Western and Eastern Roman Diocy (if you want to be correct 100%). The west fell, but the east did not fall until much later on.
Regardless, I would still call the territory the Emperor in Constantinople reigned over Eastern Roman Empire. :)
@the Factor. oh my, it was great. Moore really proved that he is incapable of answering anything. He seemed to have some sort of fetish about sending O'Reilly's kids off to die... :scratch: weird guy.
OK...i've tried real hard to understand your second point in the first half of your post, but I don't get it...
I don't get what the diocy thing has to do with the Imperial dignity. The Imperial dignity didn't come through the hands of any clergy. This is utterly unroman and a "western" invention which was initiated with the crowning of Charlemange. In the east the Emperor stod above the patriarch. And to be 100% accurate there were 5 classical diocys: Constantinople, Rome, Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria.
Maybe we're not on the same planet on this one...maybe took the wrong exit somewhere...cos I don't really get what your point is with these two diocy thing. I think you have to refresh me.
The reason why you would call it ERE is probably a result of were in time you are...
No one then would deram of calling it anything else than the RE.
But for me it's OK whatever you want to call it.
I actually didn't intend to debate this matter in this thread as I wanted people to vote unaffectionated and spontaneous.
Well, it's a plesant debate so far so why open a new thread. Maybe it's even better to have this topic in one place to.
And to keep the good atomsphere I would like to state that my intention isn't to convert anyone who's already determined about Byzantines vs. Romans true Empire vs. HRE, but to let the ones undecided hear arguments from a viewpoint which I think is lacking in the KoH forum (and over most western Europe in fact...)
So I still think that your urge to call it ERE is a result of modern thinking of the whole matter. :p
About O'Reilly...hmm, I really think Moore won...
He won by KO in the first round. If your the president of the worlds mightiest DEMOCRATIC nation you can't blame bad intelligence for going to war. Bush would be home free had he just let the UN finish their inspection. After that he would have been able either go to war cos Iraq HAD WMD or he could at worst claim that the insections weren't executed properly. IMO he had (or maybe his advisors!) a personal agenda and didn't want to chance that the inspections would clearly prove that Iraq didn't have WMD.
And the the al-Qaida -> Iraq connection is to be diplomatic far fetched and to be blunt just a way to score easy points at home for Bush. didn't the 9/11 commission show that Iraq had nothing to do with "9/11"?
And the second round (after the commercial break) Moore won because O'Reilly lost his cool. As a result of that they both got caught in stubborn rethoric. But Moores point was if O'Reilly was ready to send his own kids to Fallujha based on a lie/mistake like Bush now does with other familys kids.
Although now that the world is where it is I agree with O'Reilly that the US CAN'T leave Iraq now! But I fiercly think that Bush has to be held responsible for how this war came about. The chief ALWAYS has to take responsability for the result IMO!
And I also think that Moore is kind of a flame thrower, and isn't too picky with details IMO (haven't seen "F 9/11" yet).
Afterthought:
Hope I didn't ruin this thread cos of my thought on the latest "Factor" and Bush and the US.
Maybe we should switch to PM Turylon?
Really like "The Factor" though. It's my little window to American society. Isn't always that I agree with Bill, he takes some shortcuts in his reasoning sometimes IMO. Is that because Fox is a cable network and he needs high ratings to stay on the air? i also think sometimes that his segments are too short, when the debate starts to get interesting they have to go to commecial... :sick:
So to wrap things up, let's keep our cool in this thread and try to stay in the topic (eventhough I now haven't :silly: )
Regardless, I would still call the territory the Emperor in Constantinople reigned over Eastern Roman Empire. :)
@the Factor. oh my, it was great. Moore really proved that he is incapable of answering anything. He seemed to have some sort of fetish about sending O'Reilly's kids off to die... :scratch: weird guy.
OK...i've tried real hard to understand your second point in the first half of your post, but I don't get it...
I don't get what the diocy thing has to do with the Imperial dignity. The Imperial dignity didn't come through the hands of any clergy. This is utterly unroman and a "western" invention which was initiated with the crowning of Charlemange. In the east the Emperor stod above the patriarch. And to be 100% accurate there were 5 classical diocys: Constantinople, Rome, Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria.
Maybe we're not on the same planet on this one...maybe took the wrong exit somewhere...cos I don't really get what your point is with these two diocy thing. I think you have to refresh me.
The reason why you would call it ERE is probably a result of were in time you are...
No one then would deram of calling it anything else than the RE.
But for me it's OK whatever you want to call it.
I actually didn't intend to debate this matter in this thread as I wanted people to vote unaffectionated and spontaneous.
Well, it's a plesant debate so far so why open a new thread. Maybe it's even better to have this topic in one place to.
And to keep the good atomsphere I would like to state that my intention isn't to convert anyone who's already determined about Byzantines vs. Romans true Empire vs. HRE, but to let the ones undecided hear arguments from a viewpoint which I think is lacking in the KoH forum (and over most western Europe in fact...)
So I still think that your urge to call it ERE is a result of modern thinking of the whole matter. :p
About O'Reilly...hmm, I really think Moore won...
He won by KO in the first round. If your the president of the worlds mightiest DEMOCRATIC nation you can't blame bad intelligence for going to war. Bush would be home free had he just let the UN finish their inspection. After that he would have been able either go to war cos Iraq HAD WMD or he could at worst claim that the insections weren't executed properly. IMO he had (or maybe his advisors!) a personal agenda and didn't want to chance that the inspections would clearly prove that Iraq didn't have WMD.
And the the al-Qaida -> Iraq connection is to be diplomatic far fetched and to be blunt just a way to score easy points at home for Bush. didn't the 9/11 commission show that Iraq had nothing to do with "9/11"?
And the second round (after the commercial break) Moore won because O'Reilly lost his cool. As a result of that they both got caught in stubborn rethoric. But Moores point was if O'Reilly was ready to send his own kids to Fallujha based on a lie/mistake like Bush now does with other familys kids.
Although now that the world is where it is I agree with O'Reilly that the US CAN'T leave Iraq now! But I fiercly think that Bush has to be held responsible for how this war came about. The chief ALWAYS has to take responsability for the result IMO!
And I also think that Moore is kind of a flame thrower, and isn't too picky with details IMO (haven't seen "F 9/11" yet).
Afterthought:
Hope I didn't ruin this thread cos of my thought on the latest "Factor" and Bush and the US.
Maybe we should switch to PM Turylon?
Really like "The Factor" though. It's my little window to American society. Isn't always that I agree with Bill, he takes some shortcuts in his reasoning sometimes IMO. Is that because Fox is a cable network and he needs high ratings to stay on the air? i also think sometimes that his segments are too short, when the debate starts to get interesting they have to go to commecial... :sick:
So to wrap things up, let's keep our cool in this thread and try to stay in the topic (eventhough I now haven't :silly: )