View Full Version : Help me I want to find the "goods" [+ foreign languages discussion]
@Traveller, some people wish to keep their private life out of the public view. If they did not mind everyone knowing their real name, they would use it instead of a nick. To truly respect someone and show them respect, is to also respect their right to privacy/anonymity.
Then you further disrespect a member by blatantly revealing their nick along with their real name. :nono:
Traveller
23-05-2007, 19:49
@Traveller, some people wish to keep their private life out of the public view. If they did not mind everyone knowing their real name, they would use it instead of a nick. To truly respect someone and show them respect, is to also respect their right to privacy/anonymity.
Then you further disrespect a member by blatantly revealing their nick along with their real name. :nono:
Sorry, but I don't really feel so. I would have absolutely nothing against someone using my own name and I thought others wouldn't be so touchy about their "privacy" (total privacy means total isolation btw, so...). But if you (and Elvain) do feel so, then, please, could you edit all posts in this thread, which reveal Elvain's real name? I'll do so with mine now...
And perhaps the best choice for the "foreign languages matter" would be to include a rule that if you write on a "foreign language" you should also post an English translation, like Angry does.
Angryminer
23-05-2007, 19:58
I took the red pen to the posts above.
I hope there is no personal grudge left so we can go back to a proper discussion about the use of foreign languages - that is if there is anything left to say. Statements?
Angryminer
I don't see why Elvain is angry for calling him with his real Name ?
If someone call me Georgi \Георги\ I will be happy :go:
Sorry, but I don't really feel so. I would have absolutely nothing against someone using my own name and I thought others wouldn't be so touchy about their "privacy" (total privacy means total isolation btw, so...). But if you (and Elvain) do feel so, then, please, could you edit all posts in this thread, which reveal Elvain's real name? I'll do so with mine now...
And perhaps the best choice for the "foreign languages matter" would be to include a rule that if you write on a "foreign language" you should also post an English translation, like Angry does.I don't want the name to be deleted. I'm not happy that my privacy wasn't respected, but once it was I don't really care.
When someone is able to translate his words to English (which everyone can understand) I don't understand why he should post it also in his native language which only several people can understand?
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I don't see why Elvain is angry for calling him with his real Name ?
If someone call me Georgi \Георги\ I will be happy :go:
Where did I say it?
I'm not happy, because namely you didn't understand who was Traveller speaking to. He didn't respect my privacy as well as he disabeled you to know who he speaks to.
But of course it is my fault :silly:
i just found a mail from Elvain where his name and surname is mentioned ;P
i dont know what is this discuss about, the best would be to cancell thread ;)
And perhaps the best choice for the "foreign languages matter" would be to include a rule that if you write on a "foreign language" you should also post an English translation, like Angry does.
Angryminer does that with German & English, we have German and English speaking Moderators. Moderators can read both and know if the translation is what was said. With other languages, we Moderators have no way of knowing if the translation matches the post, or if the translation is just to fool us into thinking that everything is cool, when in fact someone could be making negative, degrading posts toward other members.
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i just found a mail from Elvain where his name and surname is mentioned ;P
i dont know what is this discuss about, the best would be to cancell thread ;)
Mail and forum posting are two separate matters, if he sends you mail with his real name on it, then he does not mind you knowing. But that does not mean he wants you to come here and use his real name.
Since everyone seems to be arguing here instead of in DMZ, I can do nothing else but join..
Firstly, interesting discussion. Especially since it appears to me to be based on a misunderstanding:
correct me if I'm wrong
No, you are not....Wrong..no not. Looks to me like a misunderstanding. But I could be wrong. Anyway, I'd like to make the point of being cautious in reacting (angrily) to other user's posts, since many are nonnative English speakers here.
Secondly, whatever a moderator says is to be followed. Problems are passed to the Webmaster or other super moderators. I refer to the Boardrules, §11 here.
§10 has also been mentioned: It is not permitted to post third parties’ personal data. To me this is natural - literally everything that is once sent to a server lingers on the internet forever in internet archives, et cetera. I don't want my personal name to be trackable to posts I make. If a user doesn't care, he/she can provide the information him-/herself. I can however understand Traveller's assumption.
While reading the rules, don't forget the part at the end regarding 15 dollars :biggrin: .
@mammix: some user's information can be found out easily indeed, but still it is always wisest to respect privacy.
Angryminer
23-05-2007, 20:56
With other languages, we Moderators have no way of knowing if the translation matches the post, or if the translation is just to fool us into thinking that everything is cool, when in fact someone could be making negative, degrading posts toward other members.Regarding that I'm willing to make compromises. We don't have many bulgarians around here and most of them seem to be nice people, so I guess someone would tell us moderators if anything strange was going on.
For me it's mostly about respecting other forum members.
Angryminer
Regarding that I'm willing to make compromises. We don't have many bulgarians around here and most of them seem to be nice people, so I guess someone would tell us moderators if anything strange was going on.
For me it's mostly about respecting other forum members.
Angryminer
Once the precedent is set, we will refer all the 30+ other languages, that then want equal consideration, to you to cipher! :lol:
Firstly, interesting discussion. Especially since it appears to me to be based on a misunderstanding:
Wrong..no not. Looks to me like a misunderstanding. But I could be wrong. Anyway, I'd like to make the point of being cautious in reacting (angrily) to other user's posts, since many are nonnative English speakers here.
.
No, he WASN'T WRONG !
to sum the things up from my point of view:
1) patriot01 didn't respect forum rules and posted in Bulgarian on a question that was asked in English
2) I asked him to follow forum rules
3) the whole discussion started on my misunderstanding of Gogo_t
4) Though I ignored things against my person from several Bulgarians here I was accused to be anti-Bulgarian and of losing my nerves
5) As several times before Traveller used my real name (what I don't really care - if I would I'd tell him not to do so before, don't you think?)
6) A discussion about who the holder of my name is (caused by Traveller's disrespect to forum rules), including another personal insults against me, again from Bulgarian side
7) Dobber asked why Traveller uses my name istead of nick, I joined this question
8) Traveller asked Angryminer to edit all posts where my name was mentioned, as if I would mind it.
9) Dobber proved that patriot01 and Traveller continuously cross forum rules, I can also add that personal insults are not allowed (so I could count King Kaloyan
so I have to apologise to Gogo_t who I accused of insulting me, what he didn't. In fact he was the only of senior members from Bulgaria here who didn't cross forum rules.
Funny is that whole thing started because patriot01 crossed the rules and I asked him not to do so, perfect :go:
Guys if it would be possible you would really make me be anti-Bulgarian :cheers: but believe me, it won't happen, I know you all are nice guys :peace: just you like your contry little too much
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I don't think it is necessary to take the rules literary, but you all know that I'm extremely sensitive to everything what shows disrespect towards other forum members.
Sometimes I pay it back the same way (as in case patriot's first post here, which sadly wasn't the first time) what I am sorry for.
If you find it offending, I am sorry.
I'd like to ask the full mods not to close this thread but rather move it to DMZ, in order to close the discussion and find common conclusion of possible with all who are interested. Yes I love solving problems :lol:
Wrong..no not. Looks to me like a misunderstanding. But I could be wrong. Anyway, I'd like to make the point of being cautious in reacting (angrily) to other user's posts, since many are nonnative English speakers here.sorry for that, but it wasn't that very angry as other reactions to me :sad:
Angryminer
23-05-2007, 22:08
I'd like to add that I wasn't asked to remove the names. I was however under the impression that the situation wasn't desired by you. So in order to protect your privacy I removed the names - the reasoning was that if you want to publish your name you could still do so yourself.
*My personal opinion is that the discussion should definitely stay open. I don't think problems can be solved by not talking about them.
Angryminer
I'd like to add that I wasn't asked to remove the names. I was however under the impression that the situation wasn't desired by you. So in order to protect your privacy I removed the names - the reasoning was that if you want to publish your name you could still do so yourself.
as I said before I didn't really mind Traveller revealing my real name at all (what he already did several times before)
On the other hand I wasn't happy of that and I was dissapointed that he did it in this particular case (the way he used moved everything to more personal level as he called me my personal name instead of nick as we all do. Strange that he was asking me not to take things peronaly while making the discussion very personal. Furthemore it made the discussion very hard to understand to all who didn't know my name)
Now who cares about my privacy, everybody knows "my top secret" no matter if I want him to know or not :biggrin:
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Oh yeah I wanted to ask if theres a nice working mode with good improvements that you can give me ??? :scratch:
in all that dispute we all overlooked this question. Sorry, mate:
check: http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=4304 (which is little outdated
or rather: http://forum.sunflowers.de/forumdisplay.php?f=27
the mods that are (AFAIK) compatible with 1.05 patch are:
Mod HARD (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=16002) (by Laudan), Name of the Rose (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=5943) (by Doux) and Holy Rome 1.8beta (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=16691) (by me)
Mircoslavux
24-05-2007, 09:08
and where is webbi?
:biggrin:
special greeting for 24.05 - the day of the st. st. Cyril and Methodius (and his brother :silly:)
for those who don't know they are the saints who invented the Slavonic (Cyrilic) alphabet
We Slavs celebrate the day of our alphabet and culture today, so you'll excuse this piece of Bulgarian
Честит празник на всички славяни по света!
S.O.D. - Speak English or DIE (http://www.badongo.com/file/3158733)
Traveller
24-05-2007, 09:58
First, Elvain, could you point me out a single post in which I or someone else has insulted you? Or you get insulted for being called "anti-Bulgarian"? Well, for me that was not an insult, but a constatation of my observations, which, naturally, does not pretend to be 100% correct, as I don't know you well enough as you do. I just said what I see. If that's what you're getting insulted by...
Second, yes, I've used personal names before and not only yours. I talked in the MSN with the others I've used yesterday and they all seemed to have absolutely no problem with it, just as I would have absolutely no problem with someone using mine. The only reason, which I see, in someone so persistent in keeping his real indentity consealed is some strange kind of paranoia (or extreme shyness) and, honestly, you didn't look like any of the two. I don't really understand what's your case, people, with being so touchy about using your personal names, I personally have no problems with such a thing, but from now on I'll know to respect your privacy, since you've made it so clear. And, who knows, you might be right, there might be even some spies lurking the forum, KGB agents, gathering data for you for their evil plans... Ok, the last one was a joke!
Third, "Strange that he was asking me not to take things peronaly while making the discussion very personal." When I'm talking with someone I know, it is personal, therefore I do prefer to use real names (ok, not anymore). However, when I'm debating about something, I usually do not do it personally, as (if it wouldn't be too immodest) I tend to control my temper rather well and thus I'm just remarking and ascertaining. So, when I'm talking with a friend, the basis is indeed personal, but the debate is not. Of course, using words in written form makes it even harder for others to notice that and I guess that's what happened and some people found my debate to be personal as well, while it was not. If it is so, I'm sorry, but it was not my intention to insult anyone, especially since it's actually pretty useless to insult somebody over the net...
Fourth, if I'm crossing the rules, then just ban me! That's what the rules say, don't they? If I'm breaking the law, then I should face the consequences. And don't forget that I have two accounts that would need to be banned!
Regards,
Nike/Traveller
P.S. And one last advice from me to all of you - indeed try not to be so touchy, especially if you're mods in this forum! Nobody likes "grumpy old mods" (not unless they're in a comedy movie), who get touchy about the slightest of things! And I believe you all realize that this forum is already far too deserted to allow it to get completely deserted. Basically, since you're clothed in power, you also bear responsibility, yes. But it's for you to chose what responsibility you should bear - to follow the human laws constantly and blindly, even if that would mean letting the thirsty man die, or to follow the humane (or divine, if you prefer) laws and protect the men in need. Basically, you have the Antigona dilema! Think about it!
Kuno of Gersenau
24-05-2007, 18:55
What I would like to point out as well concerning the languages is the problem if we allow some people to use their language is that if we allow it to one group we actually do not really have the "moral right" to not allow it to another one. Maybe you remember the discussion about the French thread some years ago. Rules are here to be followed and therefore I think you can be very happy with one Bulgarian thread. Especially because we can not really control what is written there and several political discussions involving Bulgarian point of view (Macedonia) were closed/deleted by us because they simply didn't match here, but who could us really garant that there isn't such a hidden discussion in a bilingual thread or even in the Bulgarian one. But I personally think this isn't the case in the present thread(s), at least I would trust you enought to belive so.
About the names I probably think you should first ask if you can use the real names. There are as well people I use the real name to speak with them, but only in PMs. It certainly shows that you are an open-minded person Traveller but probably not everyone likes it and this doesn't have anything to do with paranoia from my point of view.
Traveller, if King Kaloyan's post wasn't an insult what was it? It had nothing to do neither with the original topic, nor language topic. You and patriot were continuously breaking forum rules and when I asked you not to, you complained :go:
and yes, I feel being labeled as anti-bulgarian as an insult. You claim to know me very well, but if you really would you could never say that.
I don't care if you use my name as I already said several times. I just joined Dobber's question WHY you do so.
If 2 people who know their names talk together of course they should use their real names if they want.
You still didn't get my point? how many times do I need to repeat it?
1) You disabeled many people over here to understand who you talk to.
2) You crossed forum rules
3) I did not ask you not to use my name in public sector. It was YOU who was "paranoid" and thought I mind it.
If I would really mind it I would already tell you (as you claim to know me personaly very well, you definitely should know that if I don't like something I say it)
I just didn't understand why you ask me not to take things personaly while making things very personal. And furthemore I must say that I see no reason why people who insult me or use ":angry:" smiley very often when talking to me shold know my personal data without my personal wish. On anonymous internet board we all have right to chose if and to who will we enable to know our personal data, don't you think? That's why it is in forum rules.
Fourth, if I'm crossing the rules, then just ban me! That's what the rules say, don't they? If I'm breaking the law, then I should face the consequences. And don't forget that I have two accounts that would need to be banned!eh? so what you want?
once you ask the mods not to be so strict and tolerate one post in Bulgarian. Then you mind the mods being too tolerant when they don't ban you because you break the rules?
I and AFAIK also Angryminer and Dobber prefere to talk about problems before something more strict is done. So we ask forum mebmers not to cross the rules and discuss what both sides think about the problem. Once it is bad, once not. I really don't understand it
No, he WASN'T WRONG !Exactly what I was pointing out Gogo_t.. He wasn't wrong, you wrote, so Elvain was right, when he asked to post solely in English. You agreed with him. That's what I meant with the 'misunderstanding', because Elvain reacted like you, Gogo_t, said he was wrong.
Regarding the real name it is now clear that Elvain doesn't care but the staff decided to remove the name from this atmosphere. You can discuss whether one should care for his/her privacy or not and the stances are public already.
There is no need, as you know Traveller, for a ban just because you might have violated the rules. There is a good discussion on bans in the staff, they sure are not taken lightly.
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