Traveller
25-05-2007, 14:00
Could you (Elvain), please, read my posts again and not put in my mouth exactly the opposite of what I've said?* Thank you!
*"as I don't know you well enough as you do"
Oh, and I'd again suggest that you control your temper better! Indeed, I might eventually be misreading the "emotion" of your post, as it seems you're also misreading my ones, but I still do sence some anger towards me. I might be wrong though and I hope I am, as a civilized discussion among intelligent people is usually not led through anger...
Traveller, if King Kaloyan's post wasn't an insult what was it?
I can't speak about the intentions of the others, but I saw it as a reaction to your post. Maybe you don't see it, but some people sometimes find your "tone" somewhat... "offensive" and get easily irritated by it...
You and patriot were continuously breaking forum rules and when I asked you not to, you complained :go:
What forum rules have I broken? Have I insulted you? I don't think so. Have I used "unknown languages"? No, I haven't. Not to mention that I haven't complained about anything, which doesn't indeed need complaining, IMHO.
and yes, I feel being labeled as anti-bulgarian as an insult.
Sorry, but I didn't know what you find insulting and what - not. Furthermore, that's what I noticed and that's what I ascertained. If I see something, I prefer to tell it. I might be wrong (and I never claim to be 100% correct, as, IMO, that's impossible for a human being), but that doesn't mean I should not point out what I believe to have seen.
You still didn't get my point? how many times do I need to repeat it?
Perhaps it's not "how many", but just "how"... :wink:
1) You disabeled many people over here to understand who you talk to.
2) You crossed forum rules
3) I did not ask you not to use my name in public sector. It was YOU who was "paranoid" and thought I mind it.
If I would really mind it I would already tell you (as you claim to know me personaly very well, you definitely should know that if I don't like something I say it)
1) I'm sorry for that, but I thought it's quite obvious that I'm talking to you. I guess it's my misjudgement...
2) Again I ask - what forum rules have I actually broken? Because, come to think of it, I don't actually recollect such a case, at least not in this thread...
3) I was not paranoid in thinking you mind it, I just followed the expressions of Dobber and the others, who raised their voices against it. I don't know what you mind or you don't mind, but at least they seemed to have a problem with it (IIRC, you hadn't said till then if you do or don't), so hence I asked them to fix it. Or now you have a problem with the "fixing" and want them to change it back?
I just didn't understand why you ask me not to take things personaly while making things very personal.
As I have already said - when I'm talking with a friend, the "basis" is personal. When I'm debating with somebody, the debate is rarely personal. So, when I'm debating with a friend (or at least someone I know at least a bit) it's from one side personal (the talking) and from another - non-personal (the debate), i.e. the "approach" is personal, while the "content" is not. Of course, I guess you couldn't know that before, so it's logical that you may have found it to be entirely "personal", while it was not...
And furthemore I must say that I see no reason why people who insult me or use ":angry:" smiley very often when talking to me shold know my personal data without my personal wish. On anonymous internet board we all have right to chose if and to who will we enable to know our personal data, don't you think? That's why it is in forum rules.
Note that the times that I have used the :angry: smiley in this forum can probably be counted on the fingers of my hand, and never in a "personal debate".
And, as I said above - I don't know you, so I'm judging by myself in such cases. I don't have a problem with "public personal data", so I naturally presumed that the others don't have either. Since you have expressed that you do, now I know...
eh? so what you want?
once you ask the mods not to be so strict and tolerate one post in Bulgarian. Then you mind the mods being too tolerant when they don't ban you because you break the rules?
Yes, first I asked that you (the mods) follow Antigona's example and prefer the humane/divine "laws" over the human ones. But since it seemed (at least to me) that you do prefer the human ones over the humane ones, then I encouraged you not to hesitate and enforce the laws that you seem to believe in, as it seemed that you're actually not really fully following any of the two, which is not very good, as it's a prerequisite to the appearance of anarchy, IMHO.
I and AFAIK also Angryminer and Dobber prefere to talk about problems before something more strict is done. So we ask forum mebmers not to cross the rules and discuss what both sides think about the problem. Once it is bad, once not. I really don't understand it
Openness to discussions is, IMO, quite good and admirable indeed. However, may I point out that what most mods here seem to be saying (at least the way I see it) is "You must do this and you must do that!", which doesn't really leave much "openness" for discussions? Or at least it leaves the possibility mainly for post-factum discussions, which are pretty much pointless in most cases...
What I would like to point out as well concerning the languages is the problem if we allow some people to use their language is that if we allow it to one group we actually do not really have the "moral right" to not allow it to another one. Maybe you remember the discussion about the French thread some years ago. Rules are here to be followed and therefore I think you can be very happy with one Bulgarian thread. Especially because we can not really control what is written there and several political discussions involving Bulgarian point of view (Macedonia) were closed/deleted by us because they simply didn't match here, but who could us really garant that there isn't such a hidden discussion in a bilingual thread or even in the Bulgarian one. But I personally think this isn't the case in the present thread(s), at least I would trust you enought to belive so.
Yes, I remember the French discussion. As well as I remember that there is still a Swedish thread, although none of the mods here speaks Swedish (AFAIK). Moral ground, you say? However, we have two admins, who can speak Bulgarian (although they have almost no time to moderate) and I also tend to "keep control" of the discussions in the Bulgarian thread. And, AFAIK, the Macedonian topic is not prohibited by any rule of this forum.
Of course, as I had already suggested it probably an year ago (or more, I can't be sure), the mods of this forum can just move the Bulgarian thread to Webmaster's Inn and flag it with the Bulgarian flag. Most discussions in it are rarely about KoH now anyway - currently the three discussions are about the medics in Lybia, the Russian affair in Estonia (and Russia's attempt to interfere in Estonia's internal affairs in moving one monument) and this discussion here (which did arouse one post with an uncensored word, which, however, was reported). While I've been advocating the moving of the thread to Webbi's Inn, as it would also encourage the Bulgarian members to take part not only in the KoH boards, but also in the Off-Topic board, the Coloseum, DMZ etc, thus further ensuring our better acception and activity here (although the OT board is rather active lately anyway, thanks to the German influx)...
*"as I don't know you well enough as you do"
Oh, and I'd again suggest that you control your temper better! Indeed, I might eventually be misreading the "emotion" of your post, as it seems you're also misreading my ones, but I still do sence some anger towards me. I might be wrong though and I hope I am, as a civilized discussion among intelligent people is usually not led through anger...
Traveller, if King Kaloyan's post wasn't an insult what was it?
I can't speak about the intentions of the others, but I saw it as a reaction to your post. Maybe you don't see it, but some people sometimes find your "tone" somewhat... "offensive" and get easily irritated by it...
You and patriot were continuously breaking forum rules and when I asked you not to, you complained :go:
What forum rules have I broken? Have I insulted you? I don't think so. Have I used "unknown languages"? No, I haven't. Not to mention that I haven't complained about anything, which doesn't indeed need complaining, IMHO.
and yes, I feel being labeled as anti-bulgarian as an insult.
Sorry, but I didn't know what you find insulting and what - not. Furthermore, that's what I noticed and that's what I ascertained. If I see something, I prefer to tell it. I might be wrong (and I never claim to be 100% correct, as, IMO, that's impossible for a human being), but that doesn't mean I should not point out what I believe to have seen.
You still didn't get my point? how many times do I need to repeat it?
Perhaps it's not "how many", but just "how"... :wink:
1) You disabeled many people over here to understand who you talk to.
2) You crossed forum rules
3) I did not ask you not to use my name in public sector. It was YOU who was "paranoid" and thought I mind it.
If I would really mind it I would already tell you (as you claim to know me personaly very well, you definitely should know that if I don't like something I say it)
1) I'm sorry for that, but I thought it's quite obvious that I'm talking to you. I guess it's my misjudgement...
2) Again I ask - what forum rules have I actually broken? Because, come to think of it, I don't actually recollect such a case, at least not in this thread...
3) I was not paranoid in thinking you mind it, I just followed the expressions of Dobber and the others, who raised their voices against it. I don't know what you mind or you don't mind, but at least they seemed to have a problem with it (IIRC, you hadn't said till then if you do or don't), so hence I asked them to fix it. Or now you have a problem with the "fixing" and want them to change it back?
I just didn't understand why you ask me not to take things personaly while making things very personal.
As I have already said - when I'm talking with a friend, the "basis" is personal. When I'm debating with somebody, the debate is rarely personal. So, when I'm debating with a friend (or at least someone I know at least a bit) it's from one side personal (the talking) and from another - non-personal (the debate), i.e. the "approach" is personal, while the "content" is not. Of course, I guess you couldn't know that before, so it's logical that you may have found it to be entirely "personal", while it was not...
And furthemore I must say that I see no reason why people who insult me or use ":angry:" smiley very often when talking to me shold know my personal data without my personal wish. On anonymous internet board we all have right to chose if and to who will we enable to know our personal data, don't you think? That's why it is in forum rules.
Note that the times that I have used the :angry: smiley in this forum can probably be counted on the fingers of my hand, and never in a "personal debate".
And, as I said above - I don't know you, so I'm judging by myself in such cases. I don't have a problem with "public personal data", so I naturally presumed that the others don't have either. Since you have expressed that you do, now I know...
eh? so what you want?
once you ask the mods not to be so strict and tolerate one post in Bulgarian. Then you mind the mods being too tolerant when they don't ban you because you break the rules?
Yes, first I asked that you (the mods) follow Antigona's example and prefer the humane/divine "laws" over the human ones. But since it seemed (at least to me) that you do prefer the human ones over the humane ones, then I encouraged you not to hesitate and enforce the laws that you seem to believe in, as it seemed that you're actually not really fully following any of the two, which is not very good, as it's a prerequisite to the appearance of anarchy, IMHO.
I and AFAIK also Angryminer and Dobber prefere to talk about problems before something more strict is done. So we ask forum mebmers not to cross the rules and discuss what both sides think about the problem. Once it is bad, once not. I really don't understand it
Openness to discussions is, IMO, quite good and admirable indeed. However, may I point out that what most mods here seem to be saying (at least the way I see it) is "You must do this and you must do that!", which doesn't really leave much "openness" for discussions? Or at least it leaves the possibility mainly for post-factum discussions, which are pretty much pointless in most cases...
What I would like to point out as well concerning the languages is the problem if we allow some people to use their language is that if we allow it to one group we actually do not really have the "moral right" to not allow it to another one. Maybe you remember the discussion about the French thread some years ago. Rules are here to be followed and therefore I think you can be very happy with one Bulgarian thread. Especially because we can not really control what is written there and several political discussions involving Bulgarian point of view (Macedonia) were closed/deleted by us because they simply didn't match here, but who could us really garant that there isn't such a hidden discussion in a bilingual thread or even in the Bulgarian one. But I personally think this isn't the case in the present thread(s), at least I would trust you enought to belive so.
Yes, I remember the French discussion. As well as I remember that there is still a Swedish thread, although none of the mods here speaks Swedish (AFAIK). Moral ground, you say? However, we have two admins, who can speak Bulgarian (although they have almost no time to moderate) and I also tend to "keep control" of the discussions in the Bulgarian thread. And, AFAIK, the Macedonian topic is not prohibited by any rule of this forum.
Of course, as I had already suggested it probably an year ago (or more, I can't be sure), the mods of this forum can just move the Bulgarian thread to Webmaster's Inn and flag it with the Bulgarian flag. Most discussions in it are rarely about KoH now anyway - currently the three discussions are about the medics in Lybia, the Russian affair in Estonia (and Russia's attempt to interfere in Estonia's internal affairs in moving one monument) and this discussion here (which did arouse one post with an uncensored word, which, however, was reported). While I've been advocating the moving of the thread to Webbi's Inn, as it would also encourage the Bulgarian members to take part not only in the KoH boards, but also in the Off-Topic board, the Coloseum, DMZ etc, thus further ensuring our better acception and activity here (although the OT board is rather active lately anyway, thanks to the German influx)...