Patch, AddOn, Gameenhacements

[Lighthope]

There were limits in LotR 2. Armies couldn't have more than 1500 units, and only two armies could clash at the same time. LotR3 was even more limited.

Besides, I don't think having more men would make a difference since you command at the company level. (Or squad. Heck, I can never remember what it's called.)

Considering that KoH is designed to be more strategic than hack and slash, I can see limits making more sense here than in, say, R:TW.

Larger numbers make for more violent battles, not for better stragedy.

I'm not arguing for a minimalist approach of "Let's just have a single unit then". I think that what we have here is a nice balance. Not too many. Not too few, especially when you have four marshalls on the field.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - A friend in need is a pest indeed.

--== THE DOCTOR WHO AUDIO DRAMAS: http://www.dwad.net
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--== Everlasting Films Call Board: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/everlastingfilms

[William Blake]

Why should there be a known limit? No one is going to have hundreds of marshals.



Because in computer software there is NO infinite numbers. Memory is fixed, screen resolutions are fixed, hard drive has a limit.

Even if you had perfect PC, you can't have 15000000 units, because you will scroll forever just to look around. And even if they made 1500000 units you will say "i want 1500000+1 units, why is this limited? I need one more or game ****s".

Just technicaly you can't have "NO LIMITS GAME", welcome to real world.

And by way, number of slots in towns and number of marshals are limited FOR A REASON. Reason, ok, its designed that way. If you dont like it or dont understand why - you probably need to look for another game. You cant have everything everywhere - you need to make a choice. Its the very heart of the game.

PS
And AGAIN, I dont suggest to cut anything, 50 buildings, 50 unit types, 18 slots per city, 9 units per army is ENOUGH.

[Lord Qudus]

Well, I think, the existence of limits is fine for at least two reasons. The first is mentioned above: Hardwarelimit. Each computer has it's own limit. If you want an equality of chances to every player, you'll have to put the limits a little lower that i had to be. But this is a good reason.
The second is mentioned, too: Balancing. If you want a well balanced game, you have to apply limits. Without them, you could better find balancing holes that could never been patched.

I think, the question is only: Where should the limit be. And should they be adjustable by the user. Imho, the game developers should apply tow limits: an upper and a lower one. These should then be selectable in the serveroptions menu inside these lower and upper limits.

Wouldn't that be enough to everybody?

Lord Qudus

[Elvain]

some my ideas for patch:

1) diplomacy:
a)possibility to demand to change religion (as peace demand or simply as normal diplomatic demand)
b) possibility to demand to sign a peace with optional kingdom/improve relations with optional kingdom (as mormal diplomatical demand, as peace demand and also under invoke aliance) maybe also other positive diplomatic actions shold be possible to be asked, I see diplomatical system little too negatiovistic
c) develop vasalage little more, make own options in vassalage, such as (if vasal):
pay out from vassalage (with offer of tha price)
demand - defend aggainst (optional kingdom)

and oppresors options:
demand: atack
war tax
help aggainst (optional kingdom)
offer - pay out of vassalage (any you ofer the price)

2) merge landlord and builder proffesions into one, i.e. landlord being able to raise number of workers also

3) make piety and books limits a little higher to 1500 f.i.
1000 when most of actions with piety/books costs 1000 is little too low

4) some units changes:
a)make cataphracts kingdom special unit for Armenia (I am sure I asked for this, Frujin, before game release and your answer was positive :()
b) make ghulam cavalry and mamluks little better in resistance, they have very good armour and very good attackling skills, but every swordsmen squad makes very high damage to them

5) change of titles of Bohemian and Polish (and all countries of Czech and Polish nationality which emerge during the gameplay) nobles from graf/pan to wojewoda

6) Bohemia in the high period should be Kingdom instead of duchy, it definitely got king title in 1198(also in 1085 and 1158, but not as hereditary)

7) some province renaming, especially
Lisbon -> Porto
Tago -> Lisbon
Benghazi -> Barka
El Alamein!! -> Libya
Istria -> Slavonia or Croatia
Lugansk -> Sarai
Volgograd (only after 1953 or later, older names: Stalingrad, Caricyn) -> Samara
Ufa -> Bulgar
Slazburg -> Tyrolia*
Tyrolia -> Bavaria*
Bavaria -> Swabia*
Hesse -> Franconia*
Nassau -> Hesse*
Franconia -> Nassau*

and some spelling corrections:
Sylezia -> Silesia
Gotland -> Gotaland

*I'm curious how is it possible that in a game developed with help of german company SF it is possible to have such mess in german and austrian historical lands. Everybody in Germany must know that Bavaria lies everywhere but north of Switzerland ans border on Alsace, that Salzburg is NORTHEAST, not SOUTH of Tirol etc.

[kmadj]

Actually, I have no problem with setting limitations in this game if they were to add value to the game play i.e., the number of marshals or the number of building slot . . . however that is not the result.
The way these limitations were implemented they are simply too simplistic that makes me believe it was done this way to avoid spending too much time or money in making this game!

For example
Marshals: We know that most kingdoms had no more than one or two armies at hand at any point of time, why? Because they simply cost too much (in food, material, gold . . .) as well as the manpower was limited.
So, how did they show this in the game? They limit the number of RC slots you can have, very smart!
What about . . . i.e., the more men you recruit the less pool of laborers you would have to run your farms or build your structures, thus less food to feed your population resulting in low happiness or starvation going back the full circle to lower population . . .
Longer time to build commercial structures thus less trade that meant less money in your kingdom treasury to recruit and maintain armies etc. . . .

[lcap71]

Apart from all the good suggestions given above, maybe some improvements should be taken for :
-pop up advisor of battles: if you do not remember details of the marshal involved, and click "go to" to check, the pop-up cover the area involved into the battle, so it is useless...pop-up location in the right up corner, for instance, or the possibility to close it and check your force before entering the battle in a quick way should be the solution.

-assignement to town of your marshall,cleric etc.: sometimes you do not find town you own in the towns menu regarding the assignement of the marshall/cleric etc. It should be more "scrollable", town per town. Moreover, often the name of towns displayed on the field is different from the one in the menu or given in the message of conquered, defetead towns..so sometimes it is difficult to identify the origin of the messages.

-A better management of the messages: I spent a lot of time closing alert and dispatch messages..too many..maybe some options in the preferences to deactivate some of them
THX

[MrMackey]

7) some province renaming, especially
Lisbon -> Porto
Tago -> Lisbon
Benghazi -> Barka
El Alamein!! -> Libya
Istria -> Slavonia or Croatia
Lugansk -> Sarai
Volgograd (only after 1953 or later, older names: Stalingrad, Caricyn) -> Samara
Ufa -> Bulgar
Slazburg -> Tyrolia*
Tyrolia -> Bavaria*
Bavaria -> Swabia*
Hesse -> Franconia*
Nassau -> Hesse*
Franconia -> Nassau*

Kalmar -> Lödöse (or whatever the english name would be).

[Haegemon]

From my part...

Imperative Patches:

-The papacy shouldn't act as a kingdom and expand their territories. Its frontier size should be permanent. At the same time it shouldn't be conquered by " Catholic Marshalls".
Nor crussaders, nor Templars should be used by non-catholics, the same think for other religion-linked units.

-The skill "Admiral" don't actives the avility to build ships.

-A door keep for the citadel could be fine. But anyway the doors of a fortified city are so weak that I conquered a stone fortified Rome in a Blitzkrieg move early in the game, only with an army of peasants, while enemy was waiting I crossed the door. I thing that every upgrade in the fence and addition of towers in the city wall could add a group of "town archers' guard".

-The Royal avatars should be adapted to the religion of the main kingdom by default, until the player arranges a marriage. Play France, Aragon or "Castilia" with moor avatars is foolish. (I don't know if the people names and avatars could be assigned by region.)

-In battle view a hunter "calmly" crossed the land while I was fighting through the "mele"...while farmers worked in the middle. The so discussed matter about villagers working in the middle of a battlefield, remains unsolved.

-Fatal Historical Error in the early period: Hispania was all the Iberian peninsule under the Roman Empire. This means that Leon and Pamplona were part of Hispania in the past, and later part of the non-called yet Spain. (Spain= Castilla(included conquered Navarre)-Leon Reign + Aragon-Catalonia Reign + Halmoad teritories.)
In the early period "catalonia province" was not called Spain (that can be offensive to some spanish and to some catalonians, not my case but...), enought calling it Barcelona (for Barcelona and Counties which desintegrated from the Hispanic March from the Franc's Empire) or catalonia (better the FIRST, but in extremis the second works...)

Complementary patches:
-The battles are so fast in the field that the location where it developes has low importance (except a fortified castle). The enemy rushes and the option "camp" in the battlefield its unuseful.

-Aragon was wider in the upper part of Saragoza (catalonian part + aragonese part (piece of navarre)). Saragoza belonged to Halmoads not to "Castilia" in mid period. and to Aragon in late period.

-The navarre flag was a golden chain crossed (like Great Britain flag) rounded by more golden chain with the form of a shield over a red backboard.

-The pope is called King in some messages by other kings.

[Potion]

While playing Knights of Honor, I decided I wanted to take the gameplay to a next level so I started a campaign and made it my goal to conquer every single province. All was going well and I put hours of dedication into it and had a lot of fun doing it. I had a lot of the western land and was moving east. My king died with his son, the heir still a baby. All those provinces that I had conquered and fortified, all that hard work went all down the drain. This kind of made me want to stop playing my campaign and I have little hope of starting it over because now I know that sooner or later another ruling king will die and I will again find myself in the beginning. To get to my point, I would like to make a request under my name and the name of many other players, that you should take this into consideration for the next patch/update fixing this, so you don't loose all your land if your king dies heirless.

[Lighthope]

Losing land when your king dies heirless is not automatic. I've lost two kings without an heir and my large kingdom was kept intact. I guess it's random. (Or perhaps that the one who took the throne was a very high-level knight. I don't know if that was a factor or not.)

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - The wages of sin are death; but after they're done taking out taxes, it's just a tired feeling.

--== THE DOCTOR WHO AUDIO DRAMAS: http://www.dwad.net
--== Give performance reviews of your boss: http://www.rateyourboss.org
--== Everlasting Films Call Board: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/everlastingfilms

[Potion]

Losing land when your king dies heirless is not automatic. I've lost two kings without an heir and my large kingdom was kept intact. I guess it's random. (Or perhaps that the one who took the throne was a very high-level knight. I don't know if that was a factor or not.)

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - The wages of sin are death; but after they're done taking out taxes, it's just a tired feeling.

--== THE DOCTOR WHO AUDIO DRAMAS: http://www.dwad.net
--== Give performance reviews of your boss: http://www.rateyourboss.org
--== Everlasting Films Call Board: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/everlastingfilms

Does anyone know what actually causes you to loose all your land then? This is a MAJOR problem for me, makes me wanna stop playing because you've done all that work and you keep thinking it's gonna happen again

[Lighthope]

You lose lands because of a rift among your knights. When one takes the throne, the others don't accept him as king. So everyone makes a land grab and your kingdom splits.

I could be wrong, but I seem to vaugly recall that this was mentioned somewhere some time ago when land splits were mentioned as a possibility. The only way to prevent a land split is if the new king is strong enough to unite the Royal Court. That, presumably, would mean having either a very high-level Marshall or a five star anything-else. I did have a five star (or however many stars is the top level) cleric take the throne as well as my best Marshall. Both times my kingdom held together.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - No one ever forgets where they buried the hatchet.

--== THE DOCTOR WHO AUDIO DRAMAS: http://www.dwad.net
--== Give performance reviews of your boss: http://www.rateyourboss.org
--== Everlasting Films Call Board: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/everlastingfilms

[Potion]

Well my kingdom was taken over by a 5-star cleric and it fell :( thanks for the info I will do all I can to make sure my king increases the baby production :hug:

[Elf Cleric]

I have been looking the forums for a while and I had some of my opinions about the KOH.

About the amount of marshalls amount of upgrading slots in city's etc.

It seems to me like every time someone trys to discuss about how to make the game better, faces so many persons who wants to argue!

Who is really happy about the KOH of the moment.

Well,

I believe there will be second version of the game and there will be better games too!

But,

If developers are interested of building a good feature for themselves (I am a programmer too.) they perhaps should listen the complainings and should not let the peoples defend the game.

As far as I notice KOH is not any unique game!
It's an ordinary game like any others but with good beginning.

I remember when they released the first COSSACKS it was having very nice beginning too and now there will be COSSACKS 2 soon.

After looking the images and the story I think it's going to be a masterpiece.

Black sea studios really must keep their ears open and should not let the arguements, let everyone chance to discuss not to argue with them!

In beginning of this post there was many nice opinions about how to make the game better but seems like WILLIAM BLAKE does not like to hear complainings about the game, like the game would have been built only for him.



:cheers:

[Lighthope]

> If developers are interested of building a good feature for themselves (I am
> a programmer too.) they perhaps should listen the complainings and should
> not let the peoples defend the game.

This is absolute feldercarb.

Is it really your position that people who like something should not be listened to?

Let's take a look at the controversial zoom issue.

Listening to both sides helps to determine whether they should go to the effort of including zoom or not. If they only listened to the complainers, then they would include the zoom and possibly waste time, effort, and money on a feature that few will use and even fewer will find useful.

Both sides are conductive to learning what is bothersome to only a few nitpickers (and, like rebels, there will always be nitpickers no matter what you do) and what truely needs improvement.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying." - Woody Allen

--== THE DOCTOR WHO AUDIO DRAMAS: http://www.dwad.net
--== Give performance reviews of your boss: http://www.rateyourboss.org
--== Everlasting Films Call Board: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/everlastingfilms

[Elf Cleric]

Here we go!

This was exactly what I mean!
arguements once again!

Let's simply leave the game as it is!
Because everyone looks to be happy with it!
Nobody likes to discuss about how to make it better!

Soon KOH will be history.

There will be better games which gives the reason for player to look for another and better game than buying KOH II or perhaps KOH III in feature.

KOH is a game with very nice beginning if we let it be as it is it will only be waste!!

:angry:

[cdfbr]

KOH is a good game. But its also its flaws. Lots of them. Im gonna try posting them all. If they have already been mentioned then please ignor it.

First off i would like to start out by saying. I didnt pay for the game and i dont think its worth the money to pay for it. Second off if they try to rip me off with a add-on to fix the features which were supose to already be implemented with this, then i wont be paying for the add-on eaither.

The Developers and programmers put alot of work into KOH but its no wheres near done lol.

1. Provinces Expand. New villages and things will spawn but only to a limit.
2. When you build the Hostel or other buildings where it says that it will have a effect in all villages, then it should also effect the costal village cause thats a Village as well.
3. You should be able to have more marshals. I dont care what people say about this I want to have atleast 1 Marshel Controling every city. Knights for the field should be displayed at the top. Marshals in a town should only be shown in the town and not take up space at the top. and the top needs to be increased to hold atleast 50 marshals max. Limit minimal 8 - 10.
4. Armys should be limited but only to the skill of the leader. The better his leadership skill or maybe charisma the more troops he can command. But there also must be a option to raise this.
5. When you take over a town you should be able to restock you food still. I mean whos stopping you?
6. Need to improve the path finding a little bit. Knights will sometimes pathfind in the longer direction And also they go right through moutains.
7. When your in battle and you set your archers to camp near trees, then there arrows should restock. Unless there being attacked.
8. What happend to stone? Pitch, Sulfur, Marble, Copper, Macemen.....
9. All that wheat keeps everyone healty because no one ever gets sick. Hint: No one ever gets sick. Which would false because people got sick all the time in medieval europe. They had poor sanitation. and so on.
10. Public Exucutions make people happy.
11. Why dose a prisoner take up a marshal space? Is this just pure lazyness or what? Ever heard of a dungeon? A castle would have a small dungeon which would host serval prisoners. Tourcher chambers for getting information would be good also.
12. What time is it? What Day is it? What Month is it? What Year is it? Who the hell knows?
13. Im still laughing over #12, 1 second. lol......
14. Is it just me or are things just too cheap?
15. Tradeing brings in way too much money. Every game i start off by makeing trade agreements with Germany and Byzantia..... and im makeing 50+ withing a few minutes after i get kingdom power up.
16. Kingdom power would be better as a % instead of a Scale from 1 to 5. That way diffrent things could effect it at diffrent rates.
17. Why do my people become Exhuasted by war so quickly. that needs Improvement.
18. Monastarys need to be spawned at a 20% rate, Farms 30% and Villages 50%
19. Trees stumps appearing around villages would make it look more realistical :o)
20. Books are welll Pointless takeing into account the limited additions training marshels gets you. Eaither find better uses for books or give marshels better bonues for builders and landlords.
21. The max ammount of buildings you can have is good. But there needs to be alot more buildings to chose from. If you need someone to be creative i can list 100s of diffrent types of buildings you can add in. I just want more buildings in without a add-on. Or atleast some way for us to make custom buildings and add them in. Takeing peoples money is not gonna get you alot of happy customers. If you dont release new buildings befor a add-on im sure that will be a dissapointment to many.
22. There are alot of troops and i dont think you need to improve much there. But maybe have it so that the exprence for troops acctally works. I went through 5+ battles with the same troops. And they never gain no exprence. Is it just me, is anythign else haveing this problem.
23. Anyone haveing problems keeping track of whos at war with who without useing the Polictical View Map? Maybe have a list with all the diffrent kingdoms. Who there at war with. What Goods they Trade. How Much kingdom power they have. Who there allied with. Maybe there is something like this already and i didnt find it.
24. Towns should have 3 Units max which can garison there. After that building barracks increases it to 6. Upgradeing the barracks once more increase it to 9.
25. Omg your all gonna laught at this one haha. Why is it the rebles are attack there own townsfolk? Shouldnt they be trying to take back the town instead of wasteing there time weaking themselfs. LoL this cracks me up. Who the hell designed this game. Did they even think? They put a whole bunch of ideas in a hat and pulled them out at random. And they went with whatever came out.
26. Moral, my knights troops moral almost never goes below max. This needs to be imroved.
27. Pastires are made useing sugar. So where are we getting there sugur from to make these pastires, if suger is a exitoic good, which we dont have. i think that the bakery should be makeing Bread.
28. Military Units, i think what units you are able to build needs to be improved some what. If you build a fletcher then you should be able to build archers no matter what. And not just bowmen.
29. I can run my troop from one end of the map to the other and they never seem to get unhappy. My morals always 100% Green no matter how hard i work my troops.
30. Each town should be able to have a diffrent tax rate.

And im sure theres a few more which i missed. Acctally i know theres alot more im just getting really tired.

Is it just pure lazyness, ignorance or Stupiedity. Id really like to know how you missed all these things. Do you people have any clue about the medieval era what so ever. Or did you just toss some ideas around from other games. The only thing which is good with KOH is the gfx. You also did a good job with provideing a wide range of units to chose from. But what the hell happen to a econemy. Medieval life didnt revolve around war. The Econemy had somethings to do with it also.

Sorry if im being rude its just that these game companys need to stop releaseing these games befor there acctally finshed or even worth playing at all. 1502 was a major dud, thats the last game ill ever buy. 2 years and still no fu..... patch. damn these stupied rich game companys. Makes me sick.

Hold on 1 more thing

"very nice beginning" lol..... do i have too?

[Cro_Knight]

im afraid i dont agree with the 50 marshall thing i think i speak for us all when we want to make the game more challenging

[cdfbr]

Not 50, the limit of 50. You dont have to use 50 marshals but anyone who dose want to should atleast be giving the option too. just so you can set befor the game starts whats the max ammount of marshals you can have up to 50.

Reason for a 50 limit or better a 100 limit, that is cause you should have atleast 1 per city. No one king can control everything. He needs to enlist a Ministers or Marshal to help him with his other provinces.

[Elf Cleric]

im afraid i dont agree with the 50 marshall thing i think i speak for us all when we want to make the game more challenging

Is it a problem???

You do not need to use 50 marshalls!!

Yeah!

It's too much!

It would be very nice to have 9-15 marshalls, 3-5 clerics and 3-10 landlords

This is the amount which would please me..

:cheers: