Red Lake

[karima]

Die Amis unterlaufen doch ihr eigenes System mit ihren Waffengesetzen...so rückständig sind doch höchstens noch irgendwelche Dritte-Welt-Länder, aber doch keine ach so fortschrittliche Nation...aber das ist ja nicht das Problem.

Mal angenommen, ich hab jetzt echt Aggros und will alle umbringen, und zwar mit nem längerfristigen Plan. Dann werd ich es schon schaffen mir ne Waffe zu besorgen, in jedem Land. Aber da bei den Amis ja eben die Waffen einfach dazugehören und rumliegen, kommt es zu diesen Affekthandlungen. Und das ist der Punkt. DAs könte doch einfach vermieden werden, indem Waffen verboten werden. Und da jede Waffe zum Einsatz konzipert ist, ist klar, dass früher oder später einer mal ausprobiert was passiert.

[mamayourpeoplearehungry]

I don´t know the rules in Swiss, but in Germany you are not allowed to own a weapon without a permission and even if you get one, you are not allowed to own automatically or half-automtically weapons.....our soldiers don´t get there weapons after they quit....

Hunting is only allowed for people with permission....only in certain seasons and only a special number of animals, depending on the hunting grounds..but there are straic rules, you need to have a permission to own the weapon, must not be previously convicted and many other things.....



We also have laws that require a person to have permission to own and carry a gun, to purchase a gun or ammo. You need to apply for a 'gun card' which includes some background checks and people (felons) who were convicted of a felony are not allowed to own or carry a gun or ammo.

As to hunting, that also requires a hunting permit even on your own land. It also limits the number and type of animals you can take.

We don't need more gun laws, we need the ones we have enforced.

@mamawagonburner - I agree about the way we raise our children being a problem. It's a tough job being a parent, you have many people telling you how to raise the kids in ways that don't work. The morals are very tough. I had someone take me to task when I discplined one of mine for standing in a shopping cart. What that person didn't know was that a few days before that same child stood in a cart and tipped the cart over. That was far more dangerous than the quick little slap on the kids diaper. Please realize, I do not beat my kids but I will get their attention. At this time though only one of them is shorter than me and he is 5'7". I have found control of the router sure helps with discpline.

So many people with opinions as how I should raise the kids and they want to shove their morals or lack of them on my kids.

[Moryarity]

But I still believe it is far more easy to get this persmission in U.S. than in Germany...

concerning the children..I guess most parents do their best, but a lot of children lack dicipline.....but I wouldn´t say, that is was better in the former days..

[mamawagonburner]

But I still believe it is far more easy to get this persmission in U.S. than in Germany...

concerning the children..I guess most parents do their best, but a lot of children lack dicipline.....but I wouldn´t say, that is was better in the former days.. Unfortinately I disagree with you on that point, my reason being; Years ago when you told a child to do something, he/she did it for two reasons. first because they knew that it was right and second because they knew they would get swatted if they didn't. Kids today have no fear of reprimands because they know they can report you to Child Protective Services and get the parent or whoever in deep trouble, whether it is justified or not. In this country, children threaten their parents with this every day.When we were young, the only CPS we had was our parents or siblings and we did what was right(most of the time).Today you can't wash a childs mouth out with soap for using bad language because "that's child abuse". If you swat them, you risk being arrested for "child abuse". If you stand them in a corner for bing disruptive "that's child abuse". Parents today have virtually no say in the raising of their own children! Then people wonder why all these kids "go bonkers and kill people".Lack of dicipline is the major reason and todays life style and lack of control are other reasons. Thank God my kids grew up in a time that I could do what was necessary to CONTROL them and teach them respect of others. Believe me when they needed it they got their butts busted and their mouths washed out with soap. Yet I did not and do not consider myself an "abusive parent"

@mamayourpeoplearehungry: Once had almost the same situation when a women confronted me for slapping one of my daughters in a store. I told her she had better haul butt or she would be the next to get slapped! Needless to say she hauled!

[RoadRunner]

When I was a child, I preferred a slap - that was done in a second. The alternative was an endless sermon from my father... :biggrin:

[mamawagonburner]

When I was a child, I preferred a slap - that was done in a second. The alternative was an endless sermon from my father... :biggrin:
Yeah with some kids that works pretty well too.But with others it took a slap or standing in the corner :biggrin:

[mamawagonburner]

The problem with weapons (including such knifes which can be regarded as a weapon) is that you probably do not want to use them when you purchase them. But if you have them, you could think that you could use them for your "defense". That could make a situation turn very bad: If you use your weapon against someone who does not have one, you probably exaggerate your right of self-defense, you even might kill someone (which may not have legal consequences, if you have a good lawyer, but what about your conscience?). Or you cannot handle your weapon efficiently, and it may be turned against you by your attacker who uses weapons like you use your toothbrush. Or the situation can run out of control as your weapon could escalate the situation.

And worse: You have an argument with someone. And you have a weapon. It could be used in affect, especially if you had some drinks before. Or you want to calm down the situation with the weapon, and the situation gets out of control... I have read that most incidents with weapons occur in the homes...

I think one of the most efficient "weapons" is a good and loud whistle. And a cell phone.

To a point I agree with you about the loud whistle and cell phone but that doesn't always work either. There are those that wait until the middle of the night and break into your home while you are sleeping. No one is going to hear that whistle with the neighbors dogs barking and the noise of traffic going down the highway. The only protection you have at that point is a gun. But be prepared to use it if you do. Get the training you need to handle it properly and know that you may kill someone. If you think your conscience is going to bother you if you do kill someone, then don't own a gun! Take your chances of the burgular or rapist killing you instead. I have been told by law enforcement officers that you NEVER shoot to wound, you shoot to kill. Get a license if necessary to be within the laws of your state/country. Another thing is when you own guns you never drink when you are handling them. You're right there. That is a good way to kill someone you never meant to. ALWAYS KEEP YOUR WEAPON OUT OF THE REACH OF CHILDREN IN A PLACE WHERE THEY HAVE NO CLUE IT'S THERE.

[Angryminer]

1. Is it good to kill someone because he wanted to steal your TV?
He wanted 50 bucks. You killed him because you thought he wanted to kill your family.
2. Is there a way to place a weapon out of the range of children but within your own range for the "worst case" (that means: you want to have it in your hands and loaded within 2 seconds)?
3. Will you think "I might actually do something bad with the weapon" and stay calm when you are mad at the guy who messed with your girlfriend and you want to kill him in affect?
4. Is the gun worth any defense when your "argument opponent" feels threatened by the appearence of your gun and shoots you because he thought you wanted to kill him?

No one intends to kill anybody. They do this as a mistake. Without a weapon this mistake could never hapen. The guy with the TV would get his 50$ but survive the whole thing, your kid won't shoot up his best friend, you'll maybe loose your girlfriend but won't go to prison for 20 years and you won't get shot in an argument.
Weapons do not save lives. In no case.

Angryminer

[mamawagonburner]

1. Is it good to kill someone because he wanted to steal your TV?
He wanted 50 bucks. You killed him because you thought he wanted to kill your family.
2. Is there a way to place a weapon out of the range of children but within your own range for the "worst case" (that means: you want to have it in your hands and loaded within 2 seconds)?
3. Will you think "I might actually do something bad with the weapon" and stay calm when you are mad at the guy who messed with your girlfriend and you want to kill him in affect?
4. Is the gun worth any defense when your "argument opponent" feels threatened by the appearence of your gun and shoots you because he thought you wanted to kill him?

No one intends to kill anybody. They do this as a mistake. Without a weapon this mistake could never hapen. The guy with the TV would get his 50$ but survive the whole thing, your kid won't shoot up his best friend, you'll maybe loose your girlfriend but won't go to prison for 20 years and you won't get shot in an argument.
Weapons do not save lives. In no case.


Angryminer

9 or of 10 times it is a sneak thief that breaks into your house to steal your tv or silverware. They wait until you are gone.So they will get your tv or silverware anyway. The ones who break into your house in the middle of the night have much more serious plans for you or your family. My weapon is within reach and fully loaded at night and the safety is off. Same with my husband. During the day they are hidden and neither my children or grandchildren have a clue as to where they are hidden. Anyone who can't control their temper shouldn't have weapon of any kind because they are a loose cannon! As I said earlier you only show a weapon if you fully intend to use it.

[RoadRunner]

During the day they are hidden and neither my children or grandchildren have a clue as to where they are hidden.
YOU think so... (no offense...) When you were a child, did it happen that your parents were convinced they had hidden something which you should not know, and you knew exactly where it was? :wink:

Anyone who can't control their temper shouldn't have weapon of any kind because they are a loose cannon! As I said earlier you only show a weapon if you fully intend to use it.
Who knows himself that good? How will someone know anyone that good? And where is the borderline?

I am normally very calm, and I can stay calm when others already "explode". But when I get angry, I get really angry... :biggrin:

[Angryminer]

1. When I was young my dad had an air-gun. He didn't want me to play around with it because it was able to cause small injuries at some meters distance.
Of course he never knewed that I found it in the secret place in the basement because when I used it I put back all the (reuseable) ammo and put it there in the exact same position where it was before. Only god knows what might have happened if it had been a real gun.
You can't hide anything from your children.
2. What are you doing that you think some people might be so mad at you that they want to kill you? I can't really imagin that...

Angryminer

[Elvain]

Are USAmericans(or say only all those gun owners) so paranoid that everyone thinks he has to be affraid of his life?
I can't imagine one thing: I live normal life, go to work every day, during weekends have some trips in nature or historical sites(in Europe, not in USA) with my wife and children, pay all taxes, go to pub and see friends, sometimes get drunk or stoned when seing friends, from time to time see some good concert, go to the cinema or theatre or gallery or to see sport matches or visit church or porn sites from time to time. If living this normal life (as 80% of people do) who the hell could have a reason to kill you?

By accident there can be a thief or drug addicted guy who needs some money, so he breaks in your house to get some money. But he has no intention to kill you, you don't have a reason to fear of your life and life of your family.

What do you think. Where will be more murders, in a country where everybody owns a gun or in a country where nobody has a gun? If you have no gun you won't represent any threaten to somebody else even if you feel very endangered (if the fight would be necessary you'd hit him with a chair or something and call the police or he'd hit you and run). But if you have a gun and the guy against you has it too? You feel very endangered, you know that if the fight starts, he might kill you. So what do you do? Shot him or get shot.
I prefere being hit by chair or something else from being shot. And the same to cause to "the guy who I feared".

PS: about Terri Schavio:
does a human being have a right to die today? I've heard a nice commentary:
GWB wants a country where nobody has his right to die because death is bad while he leads his country from one war to another :lol:

PPS:
@Dobber. I know you are nice guy... but I don't understand one thing. Don't you think that keeping 2, even if broken, guns is much more dangerous to you and your family than having no gun at all? Your nice son will see that it's normal to have a weapon - a mashine to kill somebody. Do you think it is ok?
Why didn't you sell it? Why don't you get rid of it?

[Webmaster]

nice german interview (german xbox manager) about the videogames and violence:
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzkultur/0,1518,348631,00.html

[Moryarity]

Very interesting.....I can agree with that..but I still think games are expensive, bacause I also think, that cinema is expensive ;)

To the weapons: I can´t understand how someone could feel so persecuted, that he only feels save with a gun in his own house...

[RobinBanks]

Hey, it's every American's right to own a gun, but what wackos do with the guns is what's wrong. I think "inadequet gun control" was only a small part of the Red Lake tragedy; there were a lot of other contributing factors.

Would I carry a gun for self-defense? No, because a) for me the best defense is to do my utmost not the be in a position where a firearm/weapon is needed; and b) if I cannot avoid the situation, I've always got my martial arts skills.

Now, about Terry Schiavo. She is being starved to death. Heck, we don't even treat animals that cruelly. Taking three weeks to die is not what I call a "kind" death. To quote House Majority Leader Tom DeLay: "Right now, murder is being committed against a defenceless American citizen, Mrs Schiavo's life is being violently wrenched from her body in an act of medical terrorism. What is happening to her is not compassion, it is homicide."

[Dobber]

PPS:
@Dobber. I know you are nice guy... but I don't understand one thing. Don't you think that keeping 2, even if broken, guns is much more dangerous to you and your family than having no gun at all? Your nice son will see that it's normal to have a weapon - a mashine to kill somebody. Do you think it is ok?
Why didn't you sell it? Why don't you get rid of it?

My son has not seen them, they are put away in a closet in my office. Why do I still have them when they are broken? Well one of them was my Dad's(a Marlin 22 caliber rifle) and he gave it to me not long after I had gotten married. I guess I keep it because my Dad gave it to me(He had given my two younger brothers new guns for Christmas that year. When I got married I worked nights and lived in a rural area, I came home one morning, 2 weeks after our wedding day, to find my wife sitting in the middle of the bed with the rifle because someone had tried to break in on her! The other gun is a Winchester .410 shotgun. It was a gift from my wife, several years after we got married. It is actually still in working condition, the shell ejector is broken and you have to remove the spent shell by hand. The only thing I used it for was to(okay animal rights activists please don't attack me) shoot stray dogs and cats. We did not have an animal shelter or a dogcatcher in our community then, it was either shoot them or catch them and carry them somewhere and drop them off on someone else(which if you got caught doing you could get fined for doing). Oh, I did also use the shotgun to shoot opossum's when they would come around at night snatching our pet's food or trying to snatch my yard chickens.

[Moryarity]

The only thing I used it for was to(okay animal rights activists please don't attack me) shoot stray dogs and cats. We did not have an animal shelter or a dogcatcher in our community then, it was either shoot them or catch them and carry them somewhere and drop them off on someone else(which if you got caught doing you could get fined for doing). Oh, I did also use the shotgun to shoot opossum's when they would come around at night snatching our pet's food or trying to snatch my yard chickens.


Well, in Germany, you would go in jail for that...that is something I can not understand..shootin to harmless animals is the first step...at least for weak minded people...(I guess you are not one of those ;)) but do you think it is ok to shoot tat an animal just because it is there..that is quite sick and if you hadn´t a gun, you wouldn´t do so.


To Shiavo: It is not starving her to death...she could eat, if she were awake..so, if she is not awake...feading her to keep eher alive is something like Frankenstein did with his monster.....let her die, if she is not able to eat on her own.....desth is a natural part of life..to keep it away is in my opinion very selfish just to have an opportunity to keep away for a while the pain of loosing the beloved one

[Dobber]

that is something I can not understand..shootin to harmless animals is the first step...at least for weak minded people...(I guess you are not one of those ;))


I think you are referring to the fact that most serial killers start out in that manner(at a young age, killing/torturing animals). They do it for fun, the enjoyment their weak minds get from it. Their killing of animals most always included torture.

but do you think it is ok to shoot tat an animal just because it is there..that is quite sick and if you hadn´t a gun, you wouldn´t do so.

As I stated earlier, we lived in a rural area. That said, when people from town grew tired of their pets, or the pets grew to be larger than they had expected, or the pets became uncontrollable, they would bring them out into the country and drop them off on a roadside somewhere.
Where I lived the killing of strays was an accepted thing, before we had animal control. If you didn't shoot it yourself you called the Sherriff's department and they sent out a deputy and he shot the stray. We didn't shoot them just because they were there. Reason's for killing the strays ranged from destruction of property to safety of children and pets. Strays could possibly carry rabies and if you, your children or pets were to be bitten, you were possibly in for a 21 day round of painful shots to prevent the rabies from manifesting itself. Sometimes if strays were not killed they would soon be running in packs and killing pets(your dogs and cats), young livestock(calves, piglets) or small animals/fowl(lambs, goats, chickens, ducks, geese).
We weren't killing them for fun or enjpyment.

[Angryminer]

When I think of weapons in households I think of a common chain:
1. A thief equips himself with a weapon, so he can make anyone in the house stay away from him, if there is anybody.
2. The people in the house own a weapon so they can make any thief run away.
3. The thief brakes into the house.
4. The people notice him, pick up their rifle and go to "defend" themselves against the thief.
5. The thief sees the rifle, pulls out his gun. He believes the guy with the rifle wants to shoot him.
6. The guy with the rifle thinks the thief wants to shoot him.
7. One of them is shot, because one of them "defended" himself faster.

The same chain without a weapon in the house:
1. The thief, equipped with a gun for the above reasons, brakes into the house.
2. He is noticed. Someone looks after the noise.
3. He notices the people in the house and runs away, because he doesn't want to be caught by the police.

Angryminer

[the knightly sword]

my opinion of this incident - its messed up and sick , i mean the kid is mentally sick !!!, no normal kid would ever dare push the trigger , and as he is 16 he has an IQ rate high enough to figure out that hes killing and he would really know what the consequences is . no young kid,teenager would ever kill a human , they dont dare , they might could get a hold of a gun but never do they dare shoot , either hes sick or lost . concerning
the weapon license here in sweden
- Well you cant have a gun unless - your police , miltary , or have diplomatic immunity , or is an important person whos threatend to life . otherwise if you have an fire arm , you will be immediatly arrested , the weapon will be confiscated and you will be taken and put into jail for further investigation.