View Full Version : [en] Religious Arguments! Please post here!
Some facts about the Crusades:
Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04543c.htm)
Encarta (http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761561210/Crusades.html)
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Über die Kreuzzüge:
Wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kreuzzug)
Wissen.de (http://www.wissen.de/xt/default.do?MENUID=40,156,538&MENUNAME=InfoContainer&OCCURRENCEID=SL0011754878.SL0011754878.TM01-FullContent&WissenID=QmeAQaTMz3n01iOPpOFG0LBFXksJBIwPW5156nMjb jvAytFltVL9|-5450786249964527042/182718476/6/7063/7063/7003/7003/7063/-1|-8039030009657990330/182718474/6/7063/7063/7003/7003/7063/-1|1114079297581)
Encarta (http://de.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761561210/Kreuzz%C3%BCge.html)
I want to point something in the 2nd paragraph. During this time the muslims had lighted cities/streets, while euope was far behine. Not to mention that most of the technology after the crusade was brought from the muslim world/ glass, achitecture ect.. And who said iraq is far behine in technology now?
It's not (IMHO) the technology that really counts for me. It's the survival of Christianity.
It might not have the technology might of U.S. but that has absolutly nothign to do with religion, is more of political reasons. I keep seen your bright excusses and facts, and everytime they are less and less part of the subject.
It is just to me because it made Christianity survive.
Also, "god" didnt create religion, men did. Christianity begined when supposuly jesus was killed by the romans. And jesus was a jew . Muhammed was a man just like you or me, he was just a philosopher that people fallow. I belive that maybe this people did existed,(jesus/ muhammed ect...) but they were just people that were leaders/ charismatic that people fallowed for their philosophys, and when they died his fallowers did what they did, begined the religon. Religion has been on seens the begining of men, which evolution brought him from mokeys. Religion has been a way to controll people allways and will allways be. And in my opinion religion was invented By men to confort themselves, to have a reason of why to be "good", to have a reason of why to kill each other , to have a reason.
I believe there is something devine in this world, and that is the God of the Christians. I believe Jesus was God, and thus God made Christianity. It wasnt called christianity after a long time, but He laid the basis. All of the other dicisions are (in my opinion) steered from above.
Oh, you said that the Byzantine Empire was reduced to greece, What about the roman empire? One of the major reasons of why it fell was because of the christians. And As far AS I know byzanthine was odtodox and not accepted by the christian world
Orthodox is Christian :wink:
No. No way did the Christians cause the fall of Rome. Please study some more on this subject or tell me more about it.
One more thing you said that when popes had used somekind of froud to win they make bad decicions like JPII. Jp is john paul II? Well if he made so many bad deccisions why did people from all over the world beloved him? Then you'r saing that christians like popes that make wrong decisions? Please answer this.
Actually yes :biggrin: Nowadays Christianity is seen mostly as naive, because we've got science, so all the Bible doesnt make sense, only as a book about how we should live; no reality. Most people now want a pope thats open for big changes. Thats why so many (mostly political) people liked him.
Nevertheless, the number of children that abandon the faith on higher age has never been this high before :wink:
And to finish the soup. Jerusalem was the home of jews. Jewism begined there, Well the name says it alll. Jerusalem was the jewish name of that region. Their country was called Judia( if i can recall, not sure is something like judia thu) Then came the romans, and set rule, then christians and thye called this the holy place, because jesus died there acordin to the bible.
So the last that would have the right to own it would be the Muslims :cool:
At the bottom, your difference in faith actually makes it impossible for us to come to an agreement. You look at a totally different way, wich actually makes discussion more fun :go:
Moryarity
21-04-2005, 14:51
But the fact, that you believe, that god, makes cj´hristianity should be an argument for and not againsother religions..as we all believe in the same god..that god also made the other religions..and so you should not argument against them.....and the fact, that muslims shouldn´t "own" Jerusalem is still not an argument, why christians should....and it does not justifie war....
You could say that Mohammed used the God of the Jews and Christians, but he made a completely different religion around it. Then also, Muslims discribe Allah very differently than the Jews and Christians do. e.g. Allah wants people to suffer because it makes them harder and strengthens their faith in Allah. The Christian God however, does not want people to suffer, but to come with Him into Heaven.
Jahwe also makes the jews suffer to test them and to make their believe stronger. For example Hiob.
Too much for my bad english... :(
"It's the survival of Christianity."
What kind of technology is this :confused: LOL.
"It is just to me because it made Christianity survive."
What made it survive? what this has to do with what i said ???
"I believe there is something devine in this world, and that is the God of the Christians. I believe Jesus was God, and thus God made Christianity. It wasnt called christianity after a long time, but He laid the basis. All of the other dicisions are (in my opinion) steered from above."
So let me get this straight, you believe that jesus is god. Well you just proved my point. Acording to the bible jesus is the son of god and he sacrifice himself to ERASE""""""" all the sins of men and to stop satan :wink: . Now you by saying that he is your god proves that every religion adapts to the way the people thinks and the culture of the region.
Also this bring me to another point. If jesus sacrifice himself to end and erase all the sins, why do you still believe that sins exist?
"Orthodox is Christian"
Is a way of christianity, which means is a adaptation. And they didnt like each other much :wink:
"No. No way did the Christians cause the fall of Rome. Please study some more on this subject or tell me more about it."
When did i said they caused the fall of the roman empire? I Said they had part in it.
"Actually yes Nowadays Christianity is seen mostly as naive, because we've got science, so all the Bible doesnt make sense, only as a book about how we should live; no reality. Most people now want a pope thats open for big changes. Thats why so many (mostly political) people liked him.
Nevertheless, the number of children that abandon the faith on higher age has never been this high before "
"Only as a book about how we should live"
Well I will tell you this. Try living life the exaxt way it says in the bible and we will talk about it. :lol:
"So the last that would have the right to own it would be the Muslims
At the bottom, your difference in faith actually makes it impossible for us to come to an agreement. You look at a totally different way, wich actually makes discussion more fun "
No one as the right to own anything, This is were people are WRONG. Why should anyone own a peice of land? What gives you the power to do so? Nothing, theland is there and hsould be For EVERYONE ALIKE.
And I have say this before, i Have to faith, nor believe on any religon. My relion is my life, my self, the everyday activities. Which means, my religion is what i decide to do and what not to do, not fallow some invisible guy in the sky that tell you what to do.
And you'r right, I look at it in a different way, because i can see whats what :go: Unlike so many blind people around the world. :wink:
Ok, lets add a new topic now. Lets us talk about cloning. What's your opinion?
Ok, lets add a new topic now. Lets us talk about cloning. What's your opinion?
Only if you are talking about it from a religious viewpoint! This thread is for religious arguments.
Moryarity
22-04-2005, 09:59
Well...one could say, tht god himself was the first one who clones...he made a female, when taking tissue out of another beeing ;)
Moryarity
22-04-2005, 10:00
and concerning suffer...god also made his people suffer...in egypt...or to force someone to sacrifice his own son, is also some kind of tooture, even it is stopped in the end..
Only if you are talking about it from a religious viewpoint! This thread is for religious arguments.
I'm talking of it in a religius viewpoint, to see what everyone else thinks. Is it evil, against the religius believes or are you ok with it? Since there is a big controversy about it.
Angryminer
22-04-2005, 23:25
If you really want to discuss cloning you should do that in a seperate thread, because I'd like to talk about different aspects of cloning that the religious one and they would be severely offtopic here. :go:
Angryminer
Well the thread is up. Go http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=4220.
:eek:
where did this turned?
I was having fan when discussing blind-eyed christian fanaticism :go:
I will say only fw things:
There is no reason to discuss guilt of religious wars. Nobody is innocent and so (if you remember the reason why we started to discuss it) there is only one way to solve this issue.
Forgive the cruelties the opponent side had done to your side and remember all cruelties your side have done to all your oponents.This was exactly what Jphn Paul II did. He wanted to lead all catholics to do it with him. Here we can see that he didn't have that much authority and catholics are not so wise to follow him. They follow him only if they find tis words and actions good, but many catholic religious fanatics don't follow him if he wants to lead them to forgiveness and peace.
Second thing is about democracy. Noldy didn't aunderstand my words. Muslims don't accept Democracy. Chinese don't accept democracy, all asian cultures except japaneese and hinduistic (which have some similarities to european sicieties in institutins that lead to democracy) didn't acept democracy. Does it mean the democracy is the only right and perfect social-rule system such as catholicism is the only right and perfect? Because Muslims may oppose to you and say that only Islam is the only right religion and political system of muslim countries is the best. You then may say that it's not true because Christian democratical countries are the most developed and powerfull. Right. You can say it today, but you won't say it in about 20years(or even sooner) when the most powerfull country will be China. That would mean that in 20 years the best religion is Chinese and the best political system is chinese mixture of communism and chinese emperial state?
How could one know?
Only the God knows, but which one? Allah or christian? or Buddha?
You can say that God invented christianism and judaism, not humans, but Muhammad, not God invented Islam. You have right to say it, but it is not true. Muhammad was one of God's prophets, even christian theologues agreed to this!
Open your mind. All those books: Talmud, Bible and Koran were written by men. It depends only to what you believe. It is not a question of true, it is question of belief. How could you know if God has invented it? We can ask him and since God lives in each of us, each of us can answer it himself. But many people answers are different what means there are either more than one God or there is no Only god and it depends only on people's belief. I'm not trying to convince anybody. I just want you to be open to those ideas and think about it.
if this is causing hot blod again, feel free to delete my post. I'm only trying to state my opinions in as peaceful and calm way as possible. I'm not trying ot provoke, I accept that who doesn't agree with me may be right, but if there was some muslim fanatic, he might be right too. How could we know.
PS: Do we really want to have democratical muslim countries? It would lead to fundamantalistic govenments such as in Iran. It's better for the USA to keep governments like Saudi Arabian instead of democracy tahn may lead to opren war with whole muslim world (and you can be sure that once China would join muslims)!
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