[en] Monarchy, Republic other systems?

[Mircoslavux]

[QUOTE=Traveller]Uhm... I'm not sure if I understand your question. We still have people from the royal family (Simeon II, who fled as a little boy to Spain or the States), but they no longer have any power, unless, ofcourse, they become prime-ministers or something... The Tzar's institution as such no longer exists.

I did not mind the Tzar institution?! not easy to understand what you ment with that.
Exist some webs for aristocracy in Bulgaria? Or some aristocratic association?

[Traveller]

I did not mind the Tzar institution?! not easy to understand what you ment with that.
Exist some webs for aristocracy in Bulgaria? Or some aristocratic association?
I don't know anything of Bulgarian aristocratic websites or associations. This is maybe due to the simple reason that we have no aristocracy (except maybe the Royal family). All of the real Bulgarian aristocrats were slaughtered when the Turks invaded, so when we got free 5 centuries after that, there was nothing left. That's exactly why we had to "import" our king from Germany (or Austria, I don't remember). Then only a bourgeoisie gradually evolved, but the Communists did away with it, too. So now we have no real official aristocracy.

PS. I searched a bit and I've found an article (http://www.slovo.bg/old/litforum/001/mgrynch.htm) on the topic if some aristocratic lines have survived. It starts with an assumption of Konstantin Irechek, which you might find interesting, I presume. But it's on Cyrillic...
PPS. Another thing I've found (http://genforum.genealogy.com/bulgaria/messages/441.html) - aristocracy wasn't allowed by the constitution after the liberation:
Titles of nobility and other distinctions, as well as decorations,
can not exist in the Bulgarian principality.
(article 57, later renumbered as article 58)

[Mircoslavux]

How is the realtionship between Wolga- Bulgarian and Bulgarian?
Are there som coherence?

[Mircoslavux]

[Thanks for info
It is interesting that Simeon II did not immprove this rules for artistocracy.

In Slovakia is now very interesting situation: Because the laws from 1918 not allowed using of aristocratic titles, but those laws were (not clearly) upgraded in 1941 (1. Slovac republic) and allowed using of titles (all titles).
But most of the lawyers are not in understanding with the laws from 1941, because it was in "fascizm state"? So now is a pat situation. :lol:

[Traveller]

How is the realtionship between Wolga- Bulgarian and Bulgarian?
Are there som coherence?
Ofcourse there is a coherence! The Bulgarians, during their long history, have created several countries. In 632 Khan Kubrat created the Old Great Bulgaria (that's how the Byzantines called it), which stretched across most of current day Ukraine, South-Western Russia and some other territories. But in the end of his reign, the Khazars got more and more eager to push through and they eventually conquered the main lands. One of the sons of Kubrat ruled a kingdom to the north, which was cut off from the other and received the name of Voljko-Kamska Bulgaria (that's how it's called from currend day view). The other Bulgaria conquered the lands south of the Danube (Moesia), where they were in a better position to defend themselves. This country got the name Danube Bulgaria, which is also the current day Bulgaria. The Volga Bulgaria, after many ups and downs, a convertion to Islam, several changing of names (Kazan f.e.), ceased to exist in the XIIIth century. It is now a part of Russia, known as Tatarstan, although a few years ago they wanted to rename it to Bulgaristan.

[Mircoslavux]

But What are originally Bulgarian? Somewhere I heard, that they are not Slavian Origin, but they only were attached to Slavian nations.
I do not know.

Today is big day for Monaco. Prince of Monaco Albert II took offically the control in the principality. :cheers:

[Traveller]

Oh, yes, the ancient Bulgarians (aka Proto-Bulgarians) were not of Slavic origin. They were an Asian tribe, supposedly to have come from the ancient kingdom of Balkhara (Northern Afghanistan). Some suggest their origin is Turkic, but this thesis is losing ground. It's more likely that they were of Iranian origin (close to Sarmatian). Sometimes they were called also Skythians (in the name of the old Skythians) and Huns (when, together with the Huns, they raided Europe). When Khan Asparukh moved in our current lands, he joined forces together with the local Slavs against the common enemy - Byzantium. The Slavs were more, so gradually our branch of the ancient Bulgarians became Slavicized. Maybe I'll write or translate something about our distant shadowy past in the History thread tomorrow or later.

[Mircoslavux]

what is now the situation with Simeon II? Should he go to oposition or ?

[Traveller]

Still not clear. The socialists won 30%, Simeon 20%, the Turkish party 12%, the nationalists from Ataka 8% and the rest to the three right parties. Currently there are negotiations between Coalition "For Bulgaria" (socialists), National Movement of Simeon the Second and the Movement for Rights and Freedoms (the Turks) for a ruling coalition, but it seems they can't agree. Simeon insists that he should be a prime-minister again, the socialists say that they have more votes, so they shoudl elect the prime-minister. In the meantime we're losing time and the EU is waiting just for that in order to cancel us for another year. For me, that would be good, but still... It's all messed up!

[Mircoslavux]

So by us , the winner of votes has 30 days for goverment establishment, if it take longer, he lose this rights and the second stronger party is on turn...

[Xuca]

only Serbia afaik had their own kings - the Obrenovic and Mikhailovic families, Xuca will have to speak about this.
I'm a little late, but i'll say something about this now :wink:
We had two dynasties- Karađorđević and Obrenović(but I don't know where you get Mikhailovic)their founders were Karađorđe Petrović, leader of the first serbian uprising, and Miloš Obrenović, leader of the second serbian uprising. They were changing in ruling Serbia many times, until 1903, when the last Obrenović, King Aleksandar was assasniated. Karađorđevićs ruled until 1944, when King Petar II accepted Josip Broz as the president of Yugoslavia.
Today Prince Aleksandar II Karađorđević wants to get to the throne of Serbia, and on the last elections the church asked the citizens to vote for the royalists, but they won bearly over 5%.

[Traveller]

I'm not sure about it here, but I know that the President must give the mandate to create a ruling coalition. But I'm not sure whether it should be the party with the most votes... That would be logical, but nothing is logical here.

[Mircoslavux]

I'm a little late, but i'll say something about this now :wink:
We had two dynasties- Karađorđević and Obrenović(but I don't know where you get Mikhailovic)their founders were Karađorđe Petrović, leader of the first serbian uprising, and Miloš Obrenović, leader of the second serbian uprising. They were changing in ruling Serbia many times, until 1903, when the last Obrenović, King Aleksandar was assasniated. Karađorđevićs ruled until 1944, when King Petar II accepted Josip Broz as the president of Yugoslavia.
Today Prince Aleksandar II Karađorđević wants to get to the throne of Serbia, and on the last elections the church asked the citizens to vote for the royalists, but they won bearly over 5%.

Interesting, hm I have had not Idea about that.
What about aristocracy they are? Dukes? Princes?
So then in Serbia exist the court officially?

[Xuca]

Nope, no aristocracy. Karađorđe and Miloš Obrenović were nothing but peasants who lead rebellions. There are only few Prince Aleksandar's cousins, like Princess Jelisaveta(called Elizabeth in English)

[Traveller]

Oh, sorry, Xuca! I guess I didn't listen much in the Balkan history classes this year. I remembered that the two families were those, who led the two uprisings, but I guess I took Mikhail from somebody's first name (if there's no Mikhail Obrenovic, then I really haven't paid attention in class).

Btw I've found some information about a Bulgarian Royal club (Royal club "Tzar Simeon II - Scandinavia") in Helzinki, Finnland, which is fighting for the restoration of monarchy in Bulgaria. After all, we're one of the oldest monarchies in Europe, they say... I could copy their preamble, but it's on Bulgarian and I'm not so eager to translate it right now...

[Xuca]

Oh, sorry, Xuca! I guess I didn't listen much in the Balkan history classes this year. I remembered that the two families were those, who led the two uprisings, but I guess I took Mikhail from somebody's first name (if there's no Mikhail Obrenovic, then I really haven't paid attention in class).
Yes, there was Mikhail Obrenović(in Serbian Mihailo). Here's his monument (http://www.pbase.com/vmarinkovic/image/36144413.jpg)

[Mircoslavux]

So when are the newt votes in Serbia? And how does it look with the aristocratic party?
I have heard that the MOnte Negro want be undependenced?!

[Xuca]

So when are the newt votes in Serbia? And how does it look with the aristocratic party?Next elections in Serbia will be in three years, and because the royalists had a coalition with another party, which fell apart, I don't think they'll make to the parlament again. But elections could be even this year, because the goverment has little support, and only thing keeping it right now is the good will of the socialists.
I have heard that the MOnte Negro want be undependenced?!
Montenegro will decide about it's independance in 2006, but their prime minister is eager to be independent, so the referendum might be this year.

[Mircoslavux]

Why the people do not want monarchy?

[Xuca]

Well, most of people want monarchy, but nobody likes their party and their leader, Vuk Drašković. Prince Aleksandar really would be just his puppet.