View Full Version : Terrorism in london
Yet again the terrorist have done their crap, this time in london killing 37 people and leaving hundreads of injured. I just don't understand what this people win by killing innocents that did nothing to them :nono: . Is the stupid religion like allways that causes this( this isn't intended to insult anyone here, but is the truth) together to the greed of stupid people :angry: . People like this shouldn't have rights or anything, should be treated as such, that's the only way terrorist will learn.
My condolences to the english people :sad:
My honest condolences to all victims, their relatives and friends..
but
I'm very afraid that by "the stupid religion" you mean certain religion :nono: what I find very sad.
"people like this shouldn't have rights or anything..." you use just their own words. this is how they see us-infidels, that we don't deserve to live...
All religions are the same when they claim the only and ultimate truth. Neither of them owns it. Neither they nor "we" have it.
Truth can't be owned, truth can't be forced to be accepted. You either find it yourself or not, but you can never be sure you have definitely found it.
If you've once accepted Human rights as truth and demand others to accept it too, you MUST treat EVERYBODY, your opponents included, as Humans who deserve to have Human rights. If not you are the same like them, just fighting for something else. In eyes of fundamentalistic terrorists we are nothing but infidels. What are they in our eyes? are they humans?
I say they are. Whatever they have done, they are humans who deserve human rights.
conquestare legionare
07-07-2005, 23:46
I can not see any humans today and not tommorow. The imperfection god has given us makes us influenced by many things. We can lose our humanity for the influence of power.God didnt create religions to have reasons to kill each other. He made them to make us the imperfect a step closer to perfect. The fundmentalists create there own religions. A total difrent view of what the religion was actually meant to be oftenly the other religions are the targets . There is fundamentalists in every religion. In my eyes they are nothing but the lowest scumb on earth.
I ment all religions( not muslims only), allways with their stupid fights for who is supreme over the other, what all religions should do is ask forgive each other and DO What religion is suppost to do, Like in the christian bible says( "forgive your enemies", "turn your cheeck") and all this problems will end.
The way I see it people that make crimes like this should pay the same way they commited it, in other worlds you get what you planted. The thing is that todays politic with all humans rights and everything people with money( including terrorist) commite crimes, kill people and yet they go and have a "fair" trail, they get 1-2 years in jail when they should had been senteced to life in prison and then they are free killing people again... I mean what the hell? Is the system so much **** up that criminals are been let lose without paying? If we want to stop terrorism there has to be somekind of reform...
Also I wanted to add that I oppose bush's way of supposly fighting terrorist, If he really cared so much about this why no go 48 miles south from florida to Cuba and stop Fidel castro( cuba's dictator for the last 40 years). He has commited terrorist acts, killing poeple that oppose him and many other crimes( worst than sadam), including helping terrorist groups in south america, BUT cuba doesn't have oil like the middle east do.
@legionaire
no. Free will is the eternity of humanity as you said (if it is given by God or not doesn't belong here)
They had or have free will so they are humans. They freely decided to kill innocent people. They are murderers, one of the most bestial murderers ever born, but they ARE humans!!!
If you accuse them of not being humans, you move the conflict to area not existing creatures, you will then think that this is "something a human can't do" But it is actualy and exactly the essence of free will.
Humans have free will and they have to decide how to treat. They can follow some leaders, some ideology or own conscience. Whatever way they chose, they are still humans. These terrorists are terrorists and murderers, but humans. There is no humanity in their actions but they still are humans. This can happen to humans to treat in such way, we must all be careful not to end like they did!
@Richard
They should pay for it, but how would you make them pay the same? kill their people? or kill them? how?
It's not long ago when Pope John Paul II. have forgiven a man who comitted an atentate on him. This is a way. The attacker may change his mind or not. We have right to be protected, but he has right to have the oportunity to change his mind(not accept another ideology, but to realize what he did wrong!)
I mourn for the losses and hope that people close to them will carry their memory for a long time :sad:
You got a point Elvain. (your first post)
But it's will be hard for people to treat those who did the attack as "humans"
I mean that when a close person to you dies by the hands of some "terrorist" you will ofcourse breed contempt to those "terrorists" and want to get revenge.
But then again it's the same for those "terrorists" to cause maybe they are in some specified country (you know which i mean) and they to have some killed loved ones in there arms and maybe they want revenge to.
So it's like a evil circle. It's sad,really. :sad:
We got a long way to go to Worldpeace.
(ps: i'm a noob in discussing things ,so if you see some things that angers you or something like that please let me know, 'cause i don't mean to anger people by this, only to talk about the subject a little )
conquestare legionare
08-07-2005, 00:05
When i said fundamentalism it wasent for muslims only. Its very unbelievable but there is christian terrorists too. In balkan ive heard there is serbian fundamentalstic terrorist groups still roaming after the war in the area of bosnia and guess who the targets are- male muslims. they kidnapp them and torture them to death.It doesnt get so much attention but still it is fundamentalstic. i cant think any possibile religion free from the ugly fundamentalism.
I know some christian sects that "torture" psychicaly many young people in many European and American cities... they are the same, maybe even worse.
It's not hard to believe that there are christian fundamentalists. They have always been and they always are. Christians are not that much different from muslims.
Just muslim fundamentalists are more visible than any other because islamic societies are in crisis caused by demographical expansion which always causes problems. Don't pretend that our societies are not in crisis as well, they are. The Western crisis is just about something else. It is not so radical because there are not so many young uneducated and unemployed people.
Many schools in islamic countries are controled by priests. It's not basicaly ad. But some of those priests are not normal priests... you know what I mean. It's enough to have several of those, they are loud enough to be heard in our media...
I wanted to add something also, Elvain you said that they have their right to chooce and like all humans maybe they do, but this countries like you said are educated by priest and the such, and I want to point out soemhting that the koran says. Is something like Infidels most be converted at any cost, even by killing them in order for them to have a chance to go to paradise with alah. Now I don't want to start a war here, but in my opinion this "priests" could well be brain watching children, meaning they have no way of deciding, as they will think killing other non muslims is the way to go.
There are fundementalist in all religions, christians have commited terrorism( look the crusades, inquisitions) as muslims have. The only way to stop this circle of terrorism is if all this religions stop fighting and forgive each other.
Koran says something like this. But it also says that christians and jews are the closest brothers to musilms (if a muslim is in non muslim city he is recomanded by koran to search for christians or ews first as they are closest to their truth)
I think there are many christian or church shools in the USA and Europe... I would compare them to most of islamic schools in middle east. And there are also some sectal schools, those are comparable to islamic fundamentalists.
What do you think that most of christian priest preached in medieval church or monasterial schools? how to kill muslims and pagans or how to be right christians?Koran is not about killing infidels. Yes, who wants to find it there he will, but priests are "saint" for other skills than making people follow path of "God's martyrs"
PS: I think this thread belongs to DMZ :go: so could anyone who's more than I move the thread? :cheers:
Mircoslavux
08-07-2005, 09:53
The GOD is still the same for all of us, I do not understand why the people do not want to understand.
God loves everybody without differences and he is wise. He put in the man his freewill and it depends then on man decision, if he will answer on the love of God.
conquestare legionare
08-07-2005, 11:20
Religion doesnt have much influence here in western europe not as vast as before. If i was to decide what happens on this earth i would take all of these godless scumb haveing fundamentalism as proffession. and execute them all!!! they dont deserve to live. and that is to all religions !! fundmentalism is restricted!! it should.
@mircoslavux
If everybody believed in that lovely god your talking about and followed him properly i would be happy for my next 5 years :cheers:.
you you are that you can judge who deserves to live and who doesn't? are you the same like those fundamentalists you want to execute?
from their point of view those who don't believe in their God don't deserve to live!
are you a God that you can judge who deserves to live or not? do you know absolute truth that you can judge it?
no, people should not love God, not love him over other people. What happened in London and before that in NY and Madrid, it happened just because there are people who love God more than other humans!
If everybody loves people as humans and respects them with all their positives and negatives, I would be happy. Because if everybody respects each other over ideologies and Gods, nobody could do such things
conquestare legionare
08-07-2005, 11:53
whats the point in keeping murders of innocents alive ????. they are the very reason in most problems happening on earth. im not god but i know that they should not exist. who are they to be given the right to kill those who have done no harm to them or earth??.
whats the point in keeping murders of innocents alive ????. they are the very reason in most problems happening on earth. im not god but i know that they should not exist. who are they to be given the right to kill those who have done no harm to them or earth??.so do you think that if someone causes problems to you it is the best to kill him?
this is what Hitler thought. In his eyes Jews were causing most of problems in the world, so he decided to eliminate them.
No, mate, this is not the way!
They have no right to decide who is allowed to live or not just like neither of us!
look at your words:
and execute them all!!! they dont deserve to live.
If everybody believed in that lovely god your talking about and followed him properly i would be happy for my next 5 years
huh? what's that? in one single post you showed that you yourself don't do what you ask others to do!
They are muredrers. They should be treated and judged as brutal murderers, but not as ones who don't deserve to live!
They have(you'd say thay have given) free will to decide. They decided. They are responsible for what they have done but we don't have right to tell:they don't deserve to live!
Mircoslavux
08-07-2005, 12:07
To Elvain:
To love the God means to love people, that is connected and one is not possible without the another.
To CL:
The murders are here from beginning and will stay till the end of ages.
For us is very difficult to judge or distinguish between the real murders and the murders, because some of them are only the instruments.
Who is the murder? The man who has done it or the man who has ordered it, adviced it?
Who is guilty and who not? I tell you, that everybody is guilty and this world is not fair to anybody. we will see, what will be after.
To Elvain:
To love the God means to love people, that is connected and one is not possible without the another.I am sorry, but I have to disagree.
I don't need to believe in God to love other people. I respect those who need it, I respect that they need to love other people through some God.
But it is possible one without another.
Those murderers loved God, but not people. Crusaders and inquisitors loved even the same god like you, but they still commited such crimes against humanity just because they loved God over humans.
And I and many others love humans wthout loving any Gods. This shows that it is possible one without another
Mircoslavux
08-07-2005, 12:15
Yet again the terrorist have done their crap, this time in london killing 37 people and leaving hundreads of injured. I just don't understand what this people win by killing innocents that did nothing to them :nono: . Is the stupid religion like allways that causes this( this isn't intended to insult anyone here, but is the truth) together to the greed of stupid people :angry: . People like this shouldn't have rights or anything, should be treated as such, that's the only way terrorist will learn.
My condolences to the english people :sad:
Once I heard an interview with one terrorist. It was like:
Q: Why are you doing it?
A: It is simple. It is my job. You know many jobs like the bricklayer builds, the baker bakes and I'm terrorist so logically I have to do such things. It is my rights and my job.
Mircoslavux
08-07-2005, 12:21
I am sorry, but I have to disagree.
I don't need to believe in God to love other people. I respect those who need it, I respect that they need to love other people through some God.
But it is possible one without another.
Those murderers loved God, but not people. Crusaders and inquisitors loved even the same god like you, but they still commited such crimes against humanity just because they loved God over humans.
And I and many others love humans wthout loving any Gods. This shows that it is possible one without another
Yeas I take your opinion. But those murderers do not love God really. They are mistaken and they things we love God and kill? It is fanatisms and not love. e.g. very offen from our villages:It is like I'm visiting the church - and hate my neighbours so I love God.
Such love is far from perfect. First love you neighbours and then go to Church.
Yes you can love the people without your love to God. But you love God then without knowing it. Do you understand, what I mean?
I understand your point, Mirco :angel: :peace:
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