The Vatican

[Jarlabanke]

I'd answear that, but I don't understand it, explain a bit further please.

Sweden goes renaissance somewhere around 1521 when they got rid of that pesky Christian, maybe they even reformed Sweden at the same time, the two things are connected though.

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by the knightly sword
i dont think it ends 1648. ther was flint guns . that date was the end of the thirty year war I too think it ends far before 1648. But some people think it this way(I've found it in some books).
Mostly in Europe middleages end in 15th century, in Bohemia f.e. later: in 1526 when Habsburgs definitely claimed our throne

[the knightly sword]

ween christian tyrran won the war .then he took over sweden and excuted all the nobles and priests and those how rueld sweden. ther was only 1 noble that he didnt excute and that was his biggst mistake.gustav vasa he lead the revolt and with some help of hansan (very good trades men that ruled around scandinavia and europe . they were from germany) they gave him money for soldiers and ships . he won the war and got sweden back . he he was king after that .after the war sweden was poor
and needid money for soldiers and ships . the church was rich so he took ther money etc etc etc. the king thought why shall the church take money from people ween they vist it.
then he turnd sweden from catholik to protostant

[the knightly sword]

the books they read is far from truth

[Elewyn]

If you mean the boks I red and mentioned them (about the end of medieval era)

I study history, so I should know what medieval era means. So then I know it's possible to put the end to 1648. It depends on what is the main factor showing that age is medieval or not. The fact that in every european country it's different shows us it's not sure.

[the knightly sword]

if you really say that a country ends at 1648 . they must be the most stupid people ever known.

[Henrik]

Originally posted by the knightly sword
if you really say that a country ends at 1648 . they must be the most stupid people ever known.

now, im not quite sure whether or not you're referring to Elewyn's last post :confused: - if you do, then i'm affraid that you've toally misunderstood what he was talking about :eek: - elewyn is talking about when midieval periods ends in the different countries and not when the countries ends ;)

[the knightly sword]

that wasent what i meant. i meant that those how end medevil age on a late time like 1648 .those are the most stupid people i ever heard of . if hes right

[Henrik]

Originally posted by the knightly sword
that wasent what i meant. i meant that those how end medevil age on a late time like 1648 .those are the most stupid people i ever heard of . if hes right

Do you have a hard time accepting the fact that not all places and countries evolve at the same pace - do you also have problems with natives which live deep in the rain forrest of Amazon and Borneo, coz they haven't really evolved since the dawn of time are they stupid too :confused:

It's a fair question isen't it :)

[Elewyn]

It's not about when you evolve on certain level, but what indicates for you it's middle age.

You can chose whatever you want to tell you it's only question of midle age. For somebody it's the Reformation, which belongs not to medieval era, for somebody something else. You know, it's just a symbol. Like end of ancient times in 476 and beggining of medieval era. For most people year 476 meant nothing, becasue their live continued the same...

I wanna say that end of period is just theory and depend on you what is main problem for your theory. That one book (it's only in one book) told in western Europe medieval era ends in 1648.

You know, I've heard middle ages ends in:
1400 Guttenberg and his "bookprint" (I don't know english word for it)
1453 fall of Constantinople (for Europe)
1492 Columbus sailed to New World (for Europe)
1517 Luther has started the reformation (Europe, Germany)
1526 Habsburgs Claimed Bohemian and Hungarian throne (Bohemia and Hungary)
1521 for Sweden
1536 for Denmark (reformation in both I guess)
so why not 1648? It's a bit late, but why not.
You can also put it to 1302 when french knightly cavalry was defeated by municipal army in battle of Courtrai(Kortrijk) in Flandres
I can also suggest 1782 when slavery (medieval kind of it, offcourse) was legally forbidden in Habsburg hereditary lands, however people live there in "modern" way...

The fact is nobody woke one beautifull morning and said himself: Yeah.. that's great. Today is new era and yesterday was the last day of medieval era" :)

[the knightly sword]

i dont have problems . sorry if i annoyed you . i wasent noteing what i was writting that moment im terriblely sorry. it depends on how much a country have contacts. like an normal european kingdom could reformate normaly . but a rich and powerfull kingdom would reformate really fast. but i dont think it would take over a 100 years .only if it has never seen an other human kind then ther selfs.

[the knightly sword]

i study history 2 . i really like discovery chanel . they have really good programs. my favorite subject is ww2 but i study medievil ages 2.and gunpowder age. gustav adolf our king was in the battle of breiten field . i dont rember the exacley date but some where in 1620-1648 . its in the thirty year war . against the german emperor . he promiesd the pope to support the catholiks.ther were fog in the war . gustav adolf rides the wrong way and gets shoot(ther were flint guns every were in europe. includeing the most of asia.the swedish soldiers winns the battle .but it costs ther king.

[Elewyn]

Yea, I know. I remember glorious battle of Lützen, where forces of Gustav Adolf and Albrecht of Valdstein (Bohemian protestant, but leader of his own mercenary army in services of the emperor errgh) and nobody won, but Gustav Adolf had fallen there :( It was in 1632 I think and after that Richelieu himself must enter the war to defeat his catholic brother, but main enemy :) Funny thing, the history, isn't it?

Btw. Do you know that French king Luis XVI. failed when trying to leave France in 1791 because of one local...hmmm... landless guy from french border area? :D

Oh, we're oftopic. Too long :(

[Jarlabanke]

6 November 1632 to be even more exact, and even though the battle is usually said to have been a draw, Wallenstein pulled out of Northern Germany afterwards.

[Henrik]

@the knightly sword - that's okay - to be honest i also think i kinda lost my temper back there and for that i do apologize.

@Elewyn - i'll admit that it was "beginning" to get a little off-topic, BUT it was quite interesting to read - like it always is IMHO when you pour a spoonful of midieval knowledge over our heads ;)

[Elewyn]

:blush:
pouring :D I hope it didn't burn :D
Tell me when becoming annoying and... :blush:

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Elewyn
:blush:
pouring :D I hope it didn't burn :D
Tell me when becoming annoying and... :blush:

That'll probably never happen.....;)

[Emhyr var Emreis]

to topic..

What about the religious leaders can ask you to fight for them jihhad or crusade or whatever they want. If you agree, get some fame points, piety and kingdom power grows, if not you get excomunicated, kingdom power disgrease etc.

Will you have any influence when ruling Rome, Constantinople or some Arabian realm where caliph lives? And can you piss them out, to Avignon for example?

Will they be touchable personalities like kings or untouchable ghost substances?

Maybe those are incredible suggestions, but just ideas..

[Pope]

Who said he don't wanna have pope there? :angry: I'll excomunicate you and force you to become my vassal paying me huge taxes

[Frank Fay]

LOL