a little politics(U.S president race)

[Henrik]

Originally posted by de graaf van vlaanderen
to dobber, did you now that father bush gave osama weapons in his war against iraq,and by the way bill had at that time no reasons to kill him and he didn't was a treath to the usa at that time

yeahh, that's true - the US supported Osama bin laden and the mujahhedins ( probably not spelled correctly ! ) with stinger missiles ( anti-air ) in their struggle against the former USSR's occupation of Afghanistan.

[Haegemon]

1.All it's a big ****, full of interests. :bash:

2. UN involved in yugoslavia and was a disaster, they doubted,...let them kill each other or maybe engage the situation...,when UN get involved, doubted again and again,...we do, we don't, we don't got orders..., finally they sometimes only were withnesses. That was a problem of impotence. The same happened with Kosovo, they reacted to late. :nono:
Some countries included Spain still have units in Bosnia and Kosovo since the end of the war with the NATO SFOR and KFOR. Was an Europe problem and Europe must had to resolve it. But it's true that there was/is a big problem of ethnic hate in that countries. (The prove it's the last disturbes a week ago. Apr 2004)

3.For those US americans who think that George W. Bush it's better president: George H. Bush ruled better than his son (I supose it's due his years in the CIA). He started a war in the Persian Gulf to defend US interests in Kuwait (not people of course), but doesn't ended the war in Baghdad. He doesn't unthroned Saddam (I still remember an US general very angry, Schwarzkopf was his name). US didn't cos Bush father feared an Irak without Saddam could be another Ayatolahs' Iran. He doesn't wanted another Islamic country. But George W. Bush who pretends to "fight against terror" (radical islamism was/is US problem), gifts a future homeland to Alqaeda and other radical-islamic cells defeating Saddam, a dictator yes, but a laic dictator. ;)

4. I think US foreign relations far away of resolve problems only spread it (with colaboration of some fool world's politicians :mad: ). US govment never acts as "world's police" if doesn't have private interests for US (like always did and I supose everybody did), but this interests may explode in their face, like did sometimes, only that other countries were splashed with US fiasco. (Intrigues and conspiracies for their own sake who nobody knows neither US people.)

[Finellach]

The biggest problem in ex-Yugoslavia was that Europe and the rest of the World(USA, Canada, etc.) took a wrong position, sat and watched what will happen. In fact I have a feeling they at first cheered for a serb-controlled JNA(Yugoslav Army), backed by serb nationalist and killers remanants of fascist regime - chetniks, who was said to be 3rd or 4th in Europe by arment to deafeat naugthy Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Slovenes. It was only later that they realized the whole conflict was engineered by Milosevic and his lackeys who played a card on serbian chauvinism and nationalism and that the mentioned countries had every right to proclaim their independance by the very same constitution of that same now non-existing "artifficial" state. Fortunately they at the end lost, although the damage was already done and it will remain for generations.

USA and Europe have shown the same politics for decades now and still they haven't learned nothing, in fact US took a step forward and started to begin wars themselves only to back up and leave countries in shambles(Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam...) or to took a role of peace keeping force only to leave the country on medical aparatus of Europe(Bosnia) which will have to be reanimated in the future if anyone wants them to make any progress ever.

Instead of fixing the thing and making Bosnia one united country as it should be it is now an example of "smal Yugoslavia". Yugoslavia who had 4 different versions in every posibble regime and it every time proved as a total failure and yet they do it again with Bosnia and which is more they rewarded the Serbs with half of that country although they make only about less than 30% of whole population....but I feel I have gone a bit too far from the subject.

To the question I say no to Bush, the man is incompetent and obviously has a team of morons behind him. But then again my voice is totally unimportant in the whole thing. Ultimately who cares about those apes. :lol:

[Dobber]

Just an observation, What will be the goal of this game we are all waiting for? And what are we all boasting in our signatures, etc.?

World domination!

We revere Erik the Red, Atilla the Hun, Ghenghis Kahn, Frederick Barbarossa and others.

We can be so critical of super powers and possible world dominators, yet we are going to be trying to dominate the world of KoH. You might say what does that have to do with anything. Well it just goes to show that we all have a desire to dominate. How can we be critical of someone who wants to dominate, when we have that same desire within us?

Now I am not saying it is right to dominate, just how can we criticize others doing something we all desire to do?

[greywulf]

Originally posted by Dobber
We revere Erik the Red, Atilla the Hun, Ghenghis Kahn, Frederick Barbarossa and others.

Now I am not saying it is right to dominate, just how can we criticize others doing something we all desire to do?

Yes, many people dream about dominating, becoming powerful leaders who tell others what to do and how to act. There are others, however, who enjoy meeting new people from different cultures, who hold different beliefs and perspectives on life. Many people I know (as in academics in the humanities fields) greatly value learning about and working with individuals from other areas of the world.

Some people chose to find common bonds in culture and humanity rather then common bonds in hate and violence.

Of course, this is an optimistic view because there are always people who will hate and want to inflict harm on others, but that's the price paid when the west choses the path of violence rather then understanding, 'development' and education.

We can be critical about wanting to dominate the world because that give and take relationship of death and violence between West and everyone else can be changed, and I think my generation does want to change it.

[Henrik]

STOOOOOOOOP ! - before this goes way off the track. I don't think that we can compare a computergame to the real world - please bear in mind that the things we kill or "dominate" in KoH are basicaly just made up of binary code ( 0110101010 ) whereas the things we do in the real world actually affects real people.

[Finellach]

I agree with Henrik. That is flawed, only fools do not realize the difference between reality and imagination, games are imagination and not real. ;)

[Richard]

It is true what Dobber says (no the part about the game. "Real life and a game are 2 different things!") we are humans and has humans we can't be perfect and is on our blood to destroy each others. why? coz we r Mean :angry: we want to have power to dominate everything:beek:. we dont think about things we do sometimes that affect people that live close to us. there are people that arent this way, but if they had the chance to have all the power they could get they get it without thinking on the concequesnces this could have in other people. this is something that happens almost everyday and we do this without knowing it.
:eek::nono:

[Platina]

I want to see John Kerry as the next president of the USA. Why?
Because George W. Bush junior is a murderer and dumbass. With his stupid war on terrorism and the war on Iraq. Wasting taxmoney, getting people killed, getting more and more unemployed people and for ****ing up the worldeconomy. I think Kerry would do a much better job, and besides i think that Kerry has a better personality.

[greywulf]

I agree with Richard. Whether you may see it or not, everyone in society tries to impose their views on others from the day they're born. That's how capitalism and globalization works, that's how religion works, that's how education works, that's how the judicial system works, that's how racism works, that's how our societies are reproduced. At one point or another, everyone believes something is right and the other thing wrong.

You don't need to compare it to a video game, but domination of others in one way or another is certainly an important part of the way human beings interact with each other. I'm not sure if I'm convinced that the war in Iraq is for oil, but it is 100% clear that this war is being fought to impose American values on Iraqis, like 'democracy' (I'll be damned if you can call that democracy) and free market global capitalism (arguably the worst thing that can happen to a non 1st world country).

[Elewyn]

I think that for people it's natural to desire to INFLUENCE the people they know and help them to live better.
And there are few ways how to do it:
1. recognize my way of life, then go to another culture and if it's possible, try to live there with their values. Then it's possible to compare it, but not ojectively!
2. discuss with natural authorities intelectuals of each culture and iscuss in which case which culture is better(first idea should be: mine is IMO the best, but let's listen their arguments and try to understand them)
3.be fascinated by their diversity and the differences (tourists), but live my way. The only way to this is to travel and impotr little pieces of my culture to their homeland
4.to import my culture/way of life all aroud the world by economical power (what's hapening now), and ensure myself day after day that they are primitives who don't know TV, computer, etc. without any attempts to understand them
5. import my way of life by armies and after that by ecomomical power (Soviet union, GWB)

Problem is that it's very difficult to understand other people's values perfectly and if yes it's usually too late and before you understand both sides of conflict, they killed each other

[Haegemon]

The problem is, this is the planet of the apes, and we have a lot of instinct inside.
If you don't like the world around you, and you are defenseless in it, catch a spaceship and establish a new one. ;)

Maybe too late...?

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Haegemon
If you don't like the world around you, and you are defenseless in it, catch a spaceship and establish a new one. ;)


yeahhh, and then we find a nice new planet to inhabit and in a few centuries we have screwed that place up too...

I think it's in our genes to screw things up :rolleyes:

[the knightly sword]

all these wars have coast the earth to many lifes.its only wasteing of humankind.only just becuse some basterds cant get along dont mean that incoonet people have to suffer be cuse ther totaly wrong opinons (im not a hippie but i think those lifes wasted)i hope in the coming generations ther will be a everlasting peace.if those basterds want war let them fight it ther selfs.

[Richard]

Yeah i agree with you, the knightly sword:go::blob:

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by the knightly sword
all these wars have coast the earth to many lifes.its only wasteing of humankind.only just becuse some basterds cant get along dont mean that incoonet people have to suffer be cuse ther totaly wrong opinons (im not a hippie but i think those lifes wasted)i hope in the comeing generations ther will be a everlasting peace.if those basterds want war let them fight it ther selfs. I must agree for thos bastards.. and to the future. They will be only human, even if beter educated (I hope)

[KOSKnight]

ya war ****s but hey its mankind. Civilians in Iraq would have died anyways by Saddams military/Fedayine keep him in power and alot more in his life time would have died and then when his son takes the throne it will still continue.

Kerry being president im not to sure everything he said in his campaign race is what every other president says. He wants to take out troops from Iraq well dam so does Bush but it is just not the time to do so since it aint to stable over there and doin that at wrong time could cause civil war between religous factions.

The reasons for going in but the utcome for the Iraq ppl will be there best time in life since they now dont have to worry about being killed.

[Henrik]

IMO, now that the troops is there just let get the job done - even if John Kerry wins, he wont pull the troops out, because then the whole of Iraq will be torn apart by civilwar and God knows which regime will take over then - we've started it and we'll finish it......

[Angryminer]

USA had some bad experiences with "support one side in a civil war" - better finish it cleanly...

Angryminer

[Haegemon]

They died when Saddam and they die right now. Imposible to live normally in Irak right now.

Today coalition has two fronts, Sunite and Shiite. Today all coalition members take fire, and have to retreat.

It's a dificult problem. Leave Irak it's a victory for agressors, but stay thre is create more hate and more violence. As harder coalition attack or defenses, greater is the threat for them. As higher is death toll for natives, higher is their determination for revenge.

We have a menace in our countries, and this menace is permanent and don't gonna disapear for some years whatever we do. Religions for example have survived centuries due to fanatism and this is a problem of fanatism. We could use nukes to exterminate all muslims and still will had had the problem between us.