Suggestions for the second patch

[Angryminer]

You know that I'm open to suggestions. I'll merge them if the people keep posting their suggestions in the wrong thread. Let's see how it develops. :go:

Angryminer

[Elvain]

you always have the best choice to pick :bowdown:

[Sir Sean]

ive just found out i only have (right now) no patches and elivans mod on so will i have to have the first patch to load the second?

[Elvain]

well to get the patch you only need to download it...

[patriot1]

I have few suggestion about the new patch i would like to share with you hopefully at least one of them will become a reality.

1 The kingdom advantages should be made more accessable to Ai though i don`t know if that can be made.It appers that the pc never upgrades the dock.That should make kind of a balance,otherwise ai has no chance of wining a war with the player(once i was in war with the hole europe and i won(on hard) )

2 Building slots in towns.I really like the idea of upgrading buildings for example you build tax office and then upgrd it to market>merchants guide,or armoury>chinea armor>scale.. ,wineyard>winery.This way saves a lot of building slots so you can build economy and army in the same city(producing ressources for trade+great amounts of food for the army)

3 The random ressources in provinces really SUX.Many times i see "fertile soil" in Sweden or Norway and the whole balkan peninsula didn`t had any:scratch:,or "quarry" in flat areas wihout even hills!Once i played with Germany(early,about 15 territories or more) and i didn`t have "horses",never the less the highlands(1 territory) had "fertile soil" "horses" and "brime deposits" the perfect stuff for making an army I realise that the purpose is balance but it doesn`t make any sence...Northern Europe was famous with their huge farming potential(guess thats why Byzantia wanted to control Egypt and mid east)

4 I really like the economic system of Holy roman mod(by elvain): trade potential is 0 unless you produce something,otherwise you received gold for nothing in exchange.
Also the town tributes and taxes should be greatly enchanced(we all have seen the evil tax collector robbing the poor pop(reminds me of Robin Hood) especially in well built trading cities.I also think that well defended cities should have higher taxes and increase in pop(somewhere i read paris doubled its pop after the construction of a huge stone wall)

5 How about adding some new units?????????:rolleyes:,those proved to be quite usefull:byzantian spearmen(kicks ***), bulgars(= medieval panzer 2), hospitaliers, mameluk infantry, nakharars and turkic tarkans

6Loyalist appering.Many times as i play with France and especially with Turnovo loyalist apper for no reason.Once i conquered Bdin from Hungary,instead of being happy for reuniting with their countryman from Bulgaria.They assembled an army of Bdin loyalist(wtf???) and begin to rob their own province.I know that patriotism and later nationalism feelings appered in 18,19 century but still it makes no sence to fight your own people having in mind that you were part of them 60,70 years ago in the case of Bdin.

7 The restriction of only having 9 merchants,landlords,spies,marshals.It will be nice if at least landlords doens`t stay up there taking a valuable space when assigned to a city(They are essential for my strategy and i need at least 1,that gives me about 8 free(5merchants 1 cleric and only 2 armies to control my empire)

8 And last but not least i die for a new map with more and historical accurate provinces(especially in the east)!Yet i bet 10/1 that there won`t be such :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Lighthope]

1 The kingdom advantages should be made more accessable to Ai though i don`t know if that can be made.It appers that the pc never upgrades the dock.

This has been a very common complaint. The AI does very little upgrading.

3 The random ressources in provinces really SUX.

That's what happens when the land is randomised. It doesn't try to make things "real", just "interesting". I like interesting more than real. KOH isn't meant to be a straight historical. Just a medieval games with historical elements.

7 The restriction of only having 9 merchants,landlords,spies,marshals.

9 slots theoretiaclly makes you plan what you need. Will you give up having a bunch of marshalls in favour of a couple builders? The real problem is that builders and landlords are virtually worthless. My Court generally consists of 4 Marshalls (for two armies), two spies (one to protect the Court and the other to do spy things), and the rest are merchants for trade (until later in the game when I'll sacrifice one for a priest).

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.

--== TIGERS' QUEST - http://www.tigersquest.com
--== RATE YOUR BOSS - http://www.rateyourboss.us

[patriot1]

land lords aren`t useless believe me!At the begining they give a little bonus but with a couple of 1000 books.they give a reasonable boost to food production.making fast army building achievable easier
I don`t think it would have been so hard to made if at the begining when you choose period and country there was an option of using randomized resources throughout the provinces or realistical :wink:

[stormwinds]

later on in the game i usually just get 4 marshalls, fill them up with the best cavelry i can get (if not, then mameluks are deadly as well - i play with Elvain's mod) and take over as much as i can before refilling them and starting again

of course this means that i make a lot of enemies, but most of em agree to vassalage and peace soon after i invade :P

next time though i am going to try and use spies a lot more ;)

[Elvain]

This has been a very common complaint. The AI does very little upgrading.Ai never gets Kingdom advantages. The problem is not in upgrading, even if Ai has admirality (in mods it does) it doesn't import exotics. Ai can't import expotics, this should be fixed, definitely



That's what happens when the land is randomised. It doesn't try to make things "real", just "interesting". I like interesting more than real. KOH isn't meant to be a straight historical. Just a medieval games with historical elements.There is my proposal. Make it semi-random:
make a table with all 168 provinces and all province features withprobability.
This way provinces in Sahara will have very low chance to get fertile soil, but high chance of minerals.. Egypt high chance to have fertile soil, south Russian provinces high chance to have pasture, Bohemia high chance to have Silver etc.
and maybe a possibility to switch: historical randomness/randomness/historicity
--
next time though i am going to try and use spies a lot more ;)that is not only a good idea but with HolyRome's later versions almost a need. If you don't use spies against your enemies you can be sure they don't hesitate to use them against you :wink:

[Wolfitz]

I have been playing Elvain's Rome mod, and honestly his mod has rediscovered my passion for this game. The computer, at least to a certain degree, as I have notice, is much more challenging, in battle and in diplomacy. I mean, I had to retreat from a battle, haha:biggrin: , that doesn't happen at all, almost. The reason I am saying this is because people are asking for the ai to be harder and better, and I think at least to some degree Elvain's mod offer's that:go: . They also seem to be much more aggressive. Anyways, this is maybe a bit off topic, sorry.:wink:

[Sir Sean]

i agree i was playing as the teutonic order on elvain's mod and i lost my first born prince (i was leading) i was sorting out my men when there knight came he was suffering loses so i charged there knight retreated and my prince was hit by a crossbow bolt!
anyway on topic yes ai neads changing it would be so good if they are

[patriot1]

There is my proposal. Make it semi-random:
make a table with all 168 provinces and all province features withprobability.
This way provinces in Sahara will have very low chance to get fertile soil, but high chance of minerals.. Egypt high chance to have fertile soil, south Russian provinces high chance to have pasture, Bohemia high chance to have Silver etc.
and maybe a possibility to switch: historical randomness/randomness/historicity

It`s a nice idea yet i think having only to options to choose(randomised/historical) will be a lot easier to make having in mind that we are expection patch not expansion.

[Lighthope]

land lords aren`t useless believe me!At the begining they give a little bonus but with a couple of 1000 books.they give a reasonable boost to food production.making fast army building achievable easier

By the time I'm able to throw a "couple of 1000 books" at a landlord, my empire is built up enough where I don't need the boost they would give anyway. So we're back to "pointless".

I don`t think it would have been so hard to made if at the begining when you choose period and country there was an option of using randomized resources throughout the provinces or realistical :wink:

Although I wouldn't use it myself, I can see it being a nice option.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - & BTW, OTOH (FWIW), IMHO it's OK.

--== TIGERS' QUEST - http://www.tigersquest.com
--== RATE YOUR BOSS - http://www.rateyourboss.us

[stormwinds]

something i would really like would be to have an option to play the historical maps or even the battle maps in the single-player, against a computer, i want to be able to choose my armies, and see if i can beat the enemy with a smaller and inferior force, or see if my army of peasants could possibly overcome a single group of feudal knights :P

plus i want to try out the historical battles, especially the snow ones =) (since you dont really see that much in the game)

[patriot1]

By the time I'm able to throw a "couple of 1000 books" at a landlord, my empire is built up enough where I don't need the boost they would give anyway. So we're back to "pointless".



Although I wouldn't use it myself, I can see it being a nice option.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - & BTW, OTOH (FWIW), IMHO it's OK

Thanks for the support maybe Angryminer will notice and say a word or two to Bss and maybe there is even a chance of success

[Angryminer]

Sorry, I'm not an employee of either Sunflowers or BSS. And even if I was I wouldn't be allowed to talk about patch-internals until the official statement is public.
But what I can tell you is that the feature-list for the patch is long since fixed. That means that no changes will be made to the feature-list anymore. So you can hope that you come up with features that are also are on the feature-list by chance, but actually the suggestions here have no influence on the second patch. Also remember that we're expecting a patch. Not an addon. But keep posting your ideas. Some of these would really improve KoH a lot. :go:

Angryminer

[patriot1]

Sorry, I'm not an employee of either Sunflowers or BSS. And even if I was I wouldn't be allowed to talk about patch-internals until the official statement is public.
But what I can tell you is that the feature-list for the patch is long since fixed. That means that no changes will be made to the feature-list anymore. So you can hope that you come up with features that are also are on the feature-list by chance, but actually the suggestions here have no influence on the second patch. Also remember that we're expecting a patch. Not an addon. But keep posting your ideas. Some of these would really improve KoH a lot. :go:

Angryminer
So in two words all writings are in vain?:eek:.So whats the point of the current topic if the feature list is already been fixed????:nono: :nono: .honestly this sux i`m rather disappointed!
хубава работа,ама българска!(nice work but bulgarian)

[Angryminer]

1. Writing down ideas is never in vain.
2. How are the developers supposed to ever finish their work when they continuously change the feature-list to the liking of some people on a forum? How are they going to justify the additional costs to Sunflowers when they need longer than planned to finish the patch because they changed the feature-list? During the talkings between Sunflowers and BSS there was a point at which the feature-list was fixed and both parties agreed. You (normally) can't change a deal after it was signed. Unfortunately, that's how the industry (normally) works.

Angryminer

[patriot1]

1. Writing down ideas is never in vain.
2. How are the developers supposed to ever finish their work when they continuously change the feature-list to the liking of some people on a forum? How are they going to justify the additional costs to Sunflowers when they need longer than planned to finish the patch because they changed the feature-list? During the talkings between Sunflowers and BSS there was a point at which the feature-list was fixed and both parties agreed. You can't change a deal after it was signed. Unfortunately, that's how the industry works.

Angryminer
Waithing a +2,3months,or - won`t change a thing!We already waited an year for the patch!Yet it doesn`t metter any more!"Writing down ideas is never in vain"If you ask me:Writing down ideas is always in vain if never realised!You know,people that wrote theirs toughts here won`t be very happy with this.I really wish i could put useless,or wasting time(in the place where you can make a topic sticky)

No hard feelings though!
last post in this topic

patriot1

[Elvain]

the thing is:
when you come up with ideas like new features it is very likely that they won't be in the patch, but it may bring ideas for some possible future project...

for the patch it's better to write down ideas for fixing things that already are there...

I have the same problem, most of my ideas are rather for an add-on or even KoH 2 but I still think it's good to share them. At least you can be confrontated with ideas of others and se if such thing is relevant :wink: