Holy Rome - Elvain's mod

[Angryminer]

Is there a Changelog for Holy Rome 1.2?
Did you only introduce the Hospital or more?

Angryminer

[Elvain]

hospital and temple, but temple was forgotten, download it again (I will replace it, I probably put there version without temple) Temple adds books to pagan nations (+1 in the town, +1 in all monasteries since they can't have cleric - I haven't fuigured out how to add him :sad:)
and also some minor changes (names and titles etc. not very important)
- balanced marshall cost (3rd doesn't cost 8000 but "only" 400, just to make it possible to use 3rd marshall for a while)
- maximum piety and books are 1200, adopting population cost 150 (so maximal cost is 1500, so you have to wait untill it decreases to 8)

I divided the file because it was too big:
- HR1.2defs.zip - defs and images - includes new buildings (but not all necessary files, it works only with HR1.2maps.zip)
- HR1.2maps.zip - maps and texts - includes renamings, new kingdoms etc
- HR1.2defs+.zip - defs - those are only changed from Angryminers GoG1.4

[Angryminer]

Hello!
I guess you want some feedback for HolyRome 1.2, and now that I've tried it some hours I can comment on it: :go:
At first, the two new buildings work flawlessly. The AI used the contructions, though the building's descriptions are missing (you forgot to pack up the corresponding text-file). :wink:
I don't think I will incorporate the "temporary" marshall (at an upkeep of 400) into GoG, because the AI fails to understand that it should use this marshall only for a short time so the player has an advantage over the AI (as if he wouldn't already have enough).
I like your changes about upgrading the armory to chainmail workshop etc. Actually, I already had that in my version.
I suggest you:
training grounds -> armory -> chainmail -> scale mail -> plate mail
taxcollector's office -> market -> merchant guild
fishmonger -> docks -> harbour -> admirality -> coast guard
inn -> hostel -> hospital
I also want to take a look at stonemason -> sculptors guild, but I'm not sure wether KoH supports buildings that produce two valuables.
The idea behind all this overriding is that the more buildings can be overridden the more slots are available and the more military buildings can be constructed in one province, giving the AI more possibilities to recruit advanced troops.
This already worked very well due to your changes of the unit availability. Men-At-Arms are now just the lower end of the unit-scale :go: .

Angryminer

[Finellach]

Spain?
there is no poblem with it. Leave the original name: Spain (also for the early KoH period) and give it a title March (that's what I did)
and after U unite Spain with Castilia or Aragon, you will be called simply kingdom of Spain :go:

Yes thats what would work. Thanks! :go:
Btw. Bosnia also needs corrections....Bosnia should not exist in the early period but should be part of Croatia, in the middle period it should be a Duchy under the vassality of Hungary and in 1350 period it should be and independent kingdom which controls not only province of Bosnia but also Dalmatia as well. I would do it but I am having some problems.....

Swiss "highlanders" had no official leaders :wink:

Hmm....what do you say about 'Magistrate'?

[Lord-Piecemeal]

Very good work fella's, :cheers:

Will your mod be avalible to Finell, would like to try It out. :go: :hello:

[Elvain]

Oh :blush: I thought there are some building descriptions (but very short and poor like "temple increases books in your pagan towns" or something like that)

@Finn
magistrate is a council, not a person

PS: to run HR 1.2 ypou have to download at least HR1.2defs and HR1.2maps even if you don't want my renamings... in maps, there are also text fles necessary for new kingdoms, for units and buildings...
+ there are files needed for new kingdoms etc.

[Angryminer]

The game automatically generates the texts for the boni, but there is usually a description between the namen and the boni. The text now looks like this:
"Temple
temple desc
+1 books in town, +1 books in monastries"
Somewhere in texts.pak is file missing, that holds the text that should appear instead of "temple desc".
Small tipp: If you place that file, be sure to extract all textfiles of that directory or KoH won't read them. :go:

Angryminer

[Elvain]

damn, I somehow forgot to put it there, how could I?
Sorry I didn't copy the file with descriptions from KoH root to HR sorry

[Angryminer]

No problem, it works fine without the texts. :wink:
What do you think about my suggestions above (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showpost.php?p=91386&postcount=45)?

Angryminer

[Elvain]

well, I don't think it would be so good..
there would be too few buildings in provinces with no province feaures. And also it would be too easy to have all buildings even in the "best" economical provinces, so there would be not such place for specialization, so fewer place for strategy. Some of them, however, are interesting and I thought about them.
- Hostel as upgraded hostel: god idea, but I fially refused it. Reason was that I considered hospital closer to church than hostel (it was led by monks)
- Scale armoury between chainmail and plate - I just didn't force to build chainmail where you need only scale armourer (for Boyars, Cataphracts, Spahis etc) and force to build scale where you need only plate armoury (mostly if you need plate armoury to get feudals or halberdiers, you need also chainmail for men-at-arms or some other mediumarmoured unit)
the most I agree with tax-collector - market - merchant guild

I will include it, but the others I doubt. Only if I will have an idea of new building to add instead

[Angryminer]

1. In my game I lowered the prices of armory, chainmail, scalemail and platearmor-workshop, so it's still affordable. The wide availability of men-at-arms due to your mod makes the chainmail workshop very usefull in nearly every province.
2. The AI is not capable of following a strategy. This "what construction should be build where?" is a matter of 5 seconds, so cutting this down to 2 seconds won't hurt much. But the AI profits a lot.
3. Every bigger medieval city had a central bath. What about creating such a building as an upgrade of the hostel?
4. Shouldn't a hospital cost money? Did you try to set a negative bonus on money for the town?

Angryminer

[Elvain]

well, I don't know much about AI thinking :smile: but maybe I'll try
I like the idea of hospital costing some money :go:

but:
-men at arms? I didn't make availability of man-at-arms much wider (mor I tried about Templars and feudal knights)
-bath was in every roman town, that's true, but I'm not so sure about medieval cities....

[Finellach]

@Finn
magistrate is a council, not a person

Eh? What are you talking about? :confused:

Magistrate - A civil officer with power to administer and enforce law, as:

1. A local member of the judiciary having limited jurisdiction, especially in criminal cases.
2. A minor official, such as a justice of the peace, having administrative and limited judicial authority.

Btw. I'll put up my mod later....I caught a bad flue....so please excuse me for the delay...

[Illuminatus!]

Eh? What are you talking about? :confused:

I've seen it used as a collective noun, but the most frequent use is singular.

[Angryminer]

I have a suggestion that came up in a discussion on IRC...
I don't think it's okay that (the Earldom of) England can recruit Templars as soon as they have conquered some french provinces. I think Templars and Teutonic Knights should only be available as kingdom specific units.
What do you think about that? Maybe you could spend some thoughts on that and include such changes in your next version of "Holy Rome"... :go:

Angryminer

[Elvain]

Nice idea, but:
1) it will lower their price
2) how to chose kingdoms that could have this privilegue? Templars were international institution spread from England on north to Sicily,from Portugal to Hungary and Palestine (I even thought about making Templars available in England, Portugal, Bohemia and some realms in Hungary as well as in France and Rheinland)
But I will consider making Teutonic knights as kingdom specific unit for german nations only + Bohemia(because in Bohemia and Moravia they had many estates and members). But alsoit would require uprising of the price for them...

unfortunately I can't change titles of united kingdoms. Frujin told me that KoH engine does not support this. I tried IMO everything to do so, but I failed and after Frujin told me it's impossible, I surrender. So one terrible thing can happen:
duchy of Bavaria united Holy Roman empire, becomes duchy of HRE (terrible, but...) and after some time it wil uniteroman empire so roman empire will be "duchy of Rome". I can't do anything with it. I prefere this from having no HRE at all. (also it's much more probable that one of empires(HRE and Byzantia) unites Rome than this example.

PS: I asked people in BSS how to add new units and they told me it's impossible without knowing KoH codes (that are known by BSS only) So I hope BSS will once earn some money to make KoH add-on and fulfill my dream of Hospitaliers spread from Portugal to Hungary

[Kakita Matesu]

Elvain, you mean completly new unit or even unit using existing files? Because second statement isn't true in this case.

[Elvain]

which statement? that templars were international organisation?

If you mean units impossible to be added it is true. What is ppurpouse of unit looking like some other unit in world vview and which can't fight in battles? There is no sense to have such unit...

[Kakita Matesu]

New unit can fight in battles in world view and in battle view. There is only one minus of added unit, he looks like some other unit, what you have already said. I havn't tried with changing *.bmp but if it's possible, I think there is sense to have such unit...

[Elvain]

well, I wasn't able to use new units in battle view :sad:

And thereis other thingnow. I must thank to Finellach for his informationabout clerics expperience cost. Originaly in my mod it was that to get 5stars, cleric had to convert successfully one province. For Byzantians, Muslims and catholics it wasn't any problems but I forgot to test it as independent orthodox nation. Even if for me it wsn't problem to get one non orthodox province, after 2 hours of play I was the only independent orthodox church. AI didn't got it, so I change it.
By now it is back to 1200(maximal boox) Just make possible independent church without any kind of expansion.
But this feature still is for spies. Spy needs to have some active practise to get 4 and 5 stars.

Once again my thanks to Finellach :go: