What nations can you play?

[4zzY]

that's my point
i'll create it again;)
:cheers:

[Henrik]

Hi 4zzY

Welcome to the "english" part of the board - i can't remember seeing you here before :)

[4zzY]

thanks for the welcome Henrik

but i am not surprised
i was banned for like 5 minutes the last itme i tried to participate
:dwink:
thats why now i am :angel:

[Henrik]

Originally posted by 4zzY
thanks for the welcome Henrik

but i am not surprised
i was banned for like 5 minutes the last itme i tried to participate
:dwink:
thats why now i am :angel:

Was it because you were a bit naughty :D - or wasn't it "your fault" :angel:

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by Finellach
Actually quartered lion CoA is CoA of Prince of Wales and was the same of "Kings of Gwynedd" from the ancient times. Principality of Wales was incorporated into Great Britain and recongized in 13th century. The "historical flag and CoA" you suggest came only later and was officially recongized in 1950s(!!) by the Queen of Britain. That Dragon is proabably the oldest Welsh symbol used still today is a fact, but as a royal CoA of Wales never.
You're right, but dragon (red or golden was symbol of Wales befpore Llywelyn, who was first king of Gwynedd only then king of whole Wales, so it's logical he prefered using coat of Gwynedd.

IMO question is not about using coat of Gwynedd or Wales, but if the dragon of Wales will be red or golden. And it looks that BSS already chosen golden one. ;)

Also I would like to repeat my question to devs:
"Can a kingdom of f.e. 5 realms be a vassal of a kingdom of 4 realms?"

[Gorgoroth]

LOL Elewyn, you should make a new thread for your question, because I've seen this in at least 3 topics for now.
This way you won't find the answer if they will answer it. :D

[Finellach]

Originally posted by Elewyn
You're right, but dragon (red or golden was symbol of Wales befpore Llywelyn, who was first king of Gwynedd only then king of whole Wales, so it's logical he prefered using coat of Gwynedd.

Yes. I stated that the dragon is obviously the oldest used symbol in Wales. It is also strange that invading Normans also used dragons on their shields.
The fact is Princess of Gwynedd used quartered lions, but it's a trivial matter and it's not so important.

Originally posted by Elewyn
IMO question is not about using coat of Gwynedd or Wales, but if the dragon of Wales will be red or golden. And it looks that BSS already chosen golden one. ;)

Yes it's golden, but I don't think thats a dragon, but a lion identical to the lion of Bohemia or Leon :p

[Henrik]

Regarding the Welsh flag - does anyone of know whether or not they ever have had a white flag with two red stripes stretching from the corners of the flag - if we look at the Union Jack we see the to red stripes also - and as i recall the Union Jack is made from combining the english ( geee ! ) the schotish and the welsh flag !

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by Finellach
Yes it's golden, but I don't think thats a dragon, but a lion identical to the lion of Bohemia or Leon :p Unfortunately.
I think that adding some more figures/emblems won't make heraldry of KoH more complicated than is necessery, don't you think?(not only to Finellach)

[Finellach]

Well my opinion is that even having original CoA's wouldn't be that difficult to add and would not definately be too complicated.

Welsh CoA is in spirit of all CoA's - simplified. ;)

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Elewyn
Unfortunately. I think that adding some more figures/emblems won't make heraldry of KoH more complicated than is necessery, don't you think?(not only to Finellach)

So you think we could have more symbols - i like that :)

[Jarlabanke]

The more the merrier

[Gorgoroth]

Yes of course, every little addition is just enchancing the game! :cool:

[Elewyn]

so, we have final list of nations... since the thread where it is posted, is closed, I will post my useless questions here

here is the list, with my objections:

Early (around 1000 AD)
Abbassids
Anglia
Armenia - vassal to Byzantia
Berbers
Bohemia
Bosnia
Brittany
Bulgaria
Burgundy - Kingdom of Burgundy I guwess in nowadays alpine France and Provence
Byzantia
Cordoba
Croatia - IMO it should include Carinthia in this period, maybe also Bosnia...
Denmark
Fatimids
France
Georgia
Germany - grrr...
Highlands
Hungary
Italy - I don't like it being here, but if it is, probably vassal of Germany grrrr...
Kazan - I don't think if it is necessary in this era, Kazan emerged later as political center. I miss Great Bulgaria in this area in this period instead
Khazars
Kiev
Leinster
Leon
Lithuania - I would prefere calling this nation Balts
Lothian
Munster
Muscovy - What?! please, Muscovy emerged as power in Russia in 14th century, not before. It can be (with screams!) tolerated in around 1200, but in 1000? Vladimir, Suzdal or Smolensk should be instead
Normandy - vassal of France
Norway
Novgorod
Pamplona
Pechenegs
Poland
Sicily - as muslim nation probably, leaving the rest of south Italy to Byzantines. or posibly norman kingdom of Sicily (emerged in mid 11th century, on the top of it's power it was after 1160 when ruling whole south Italy, Sicily and expanded to northern Africa and nowadays Albania.
Spain - ?? march of Spain? isn't Catalunia better? or Barcelona. March of Spain is far gone in 1000, in those times powerfull county of Barcelona lied in NE Spain
Suzdal - I would like to see Muscovy being part of Suzdal
Ulster
Wales
Wessex
York
Zenata - probably vassal of Cordoba
Zeta
Zirid - vassal of Fatimids
*I also miss here some state of Albian Slavs in Mecklenburg and Brandenburg, but they are probably part of Poland in this period.
I also miss Languedoc and Flandre as vassals of France
but... WHERE IS SWEDEN???

High (around 1200 AD)
Almohads
Antioch - vasal of Jerusalem
Aragon
Armenia
Athens - vassal of Latins
Bagdad
Berbers - vassal of Almohads
Bohemia - vasal of Germany
Brittany - vassal of France
Bulgaria
Castilia
Croatia - vassal of Hungary
Cumans
Cyprus - vassal of Jerusalem
Denmark
England
Epir
Fatimids
France
Genoa
Georgia
Germany
Golden Horde
Hungary
Ireland
Italy - ?! if there are independent Venice and Genoa, the rest of italian north should be divided between Lombardy and Tuscany IMO (as in late era)
Jerusalem
Kazan
Latins
Leon
Lithuania
Muscovy - I think that if it includes realm of Somlensk, it should be called Somlensk, Moscovian power rose little later, Smolensk vas one of the most powerful russian principalities
Naples - ?! :nono: it was surely part of kingdom of Sicily in those times. Especially around 1200 Kingdom of Sicily (including all southern italy and Sardiny) was on the top of it's power, I see no reason why to divide it into Sicily and Naples
Navarra
Nicea
Norway
Novgorod
Poland
Pomerania - vassal of Germany
Portugal
Ryazan
Saloniki - vassal of Latins
Scotland
Seljuks
Serbia
Sicily - should include whole south Italy up to papal state!
Sweden
Switzerland - what the hack switzerland do there? It was founded in 1291!
Teutonic Order - it located its power to the Baltics in 1228, little later, but in this case historians must close one eye and let it be there. But I see big diference between 30 years later and over 90 in case of Switzerland.
Trebizond - prbably vassal to Nicea
Tunisia - probably vassal to Fatimids
Ukraine - what the hack Ukraine does in middle ages? If the devs want some nation there, why not call it Kiev, which existed those times? If you can, rename it please
Venice
Wales - I hope it will be vassal of England, in this era
*I miss here some nations: primary powerfull vassals of kingdom of France: there already is duke of Aquitaine and Normandy (as holdings of England :go: ), but Flandre and Languedoc at least should be in KoH

Late (around 1350 AD)
Algeries
Aragon
Armenia
Athens
Austria - vassal of Germany
Bdin
Bohemia - vassal of Germany
Brandenburg - vassal of Germany
Brittany ??? part of France, but posibly only its vassal
Burgundy - duchy of Burgundy, rulling Flandre (historically since 1364), vassal of France
Byzantia
Castilia
Croatia - vassal of Hungary
Cyprus
Denmark
Dobrudzha
England
France
Gelre - vassal of Germany
Genoa
Georgia
Germany
Golden Horde
Granada
Hungary
Ilkhanids
Karaman
Leinster
Lithuania
Lombardy
Mameluks
Mecklenburg - vassal of Germany
Moldavia - vassal of Hungary or Lithuania
Morocco
Munster
Muscovy
Naples
Navarra
Norway
Novgorod
Ottomans
Palatinat - vassal of Germany
Poland
Portugal
Provance - vassal of France
Savoy
Scotland
Seljuks
Serbia
Sweden
Switzerland - vassal of Germany
Teutonic Order
Trebizond
Tunisia
Turnovo
Tuscany
Ulster
Venice
Wales - I guess that it was part of England since beggining of 14th century.
Wallachia
*I must say I miss Bavaria in the late period, one of most powerfull german duchies. If there is not so important Mecklenburg, I guess Bavaria will be. I'm affraid it is not there coz there is no realm Bavaria, what is even far worse!!

It is final list, so it probably will not be changed, but if it is only a little possible, pleas, change some things. If I would have to chose 5 most important of my objections above, they would be:
Sweden must be in early period!!!
Ukraine in high period renamed to Kiev
Naples in high period being part of Sicily
Bavaria in lateperiod
Flandre instead of Switzerland in high period

[Elewyn]

I am sorry for double posting. But when Frank strictly refused any changes in the list, I would like to see some explanation of one thing.

Why SWEDEN is not in the early entry period? Can you give us ANY reason of this?

Sorry, I must say that the more I know about how the game will finally look (with playable nations), the more I am disapointed with it. It is, however far better than it was in the beggining and I it deserves thanks from me and probably from most of us.

[Henrik]

I am sorry for double posting. But when Frank strictly refused any changes in the list, I would like to see some explanation of one thing.

Why SWEDEN is not in the early entry period? Can you give us ANY reason of this?

Sorry, I must say that the more I know about how the game will finally look (with playable nations), the more I am disapointed with it. It is, however far better than it was in the beggining and I it deserves thanks from me and probably from most of us.


Well, elewyn you're NOT the only one who is a bit dissapointed - i'm not going to forgive the devs that they have given Denmark an/a eagle/crow as its banner, when Denmark are supposed to have 3 lions and 9 heart in its banner - and i don't buy the explanation that it's because the banners are so small and that it is difficault to make all the small details, because if one look at the other standards then they are full of small details - so IMO it **** !...........but just a little.

I'll hope they can correct this in KoH2 :rolleyes:

[Berserker]

Oki, do u guys think i can play norway as a nation?huh?hehe...u are probably tired of all this questions but still....

[Angryminer]

Maybe you want to check the answer on the question you posted here (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?p=46169#post46169). It answers this question too! :go:

Angryminer

[eagle1]

FLANDRES flandres FLANDRES

[svallentinus]

Moldavia=Moldova was no vassal towards Hungary .Maybe Poland and/or Ottoman Empire(during Middle Ages).