Main Topic: the war in Iraq... (again!). Triggerer: An article in the New York Times.

[Kuno of Gersenau]

Originally posted by Sir Turylon
The UN can do something? Since when? As far as I am concerned, the UN is only good for two things... Stopping Cold War scuffles between nuclear powers and helping to hand out food and medical help to countries. In all other matters, they fail. The UN can't do ****. They are becoming as impotent as the League of Nations. Why did I knew that this sentence will come...:rolleyes:

Ok, when you say UN ****s, what would be better in your opinion? American rulership of the world? :p ;) (don't get angry please)

[Sir Turylon]

Originally posted by Kuno of Gersenau
Why did I knew that this sentence will come...:rolleyes:

Ok, when you say UN ****s, what would be better in your opinion? American rulership of the world? :p ;) (don't get angry please)

The UN is a cold war relic. It should be dismantled and turned into something else.

I'm not sure what... but... people will think of something.


@Siena
I agree. most Americans are naive and childish about foreign policy. But.. The same can be said for Europeans that think their own foreign policy is better.

Question: Would you rather...
A) Go after terrorists before they strike your own country
B) Wait till they strike and then wait for other nations to finally realize the terorists are a threat
C) Protect your own soverignty by trying to destroy a clear and present danger to your nation.
D) Do nothing at all and just hope the terrorists don't come after you cause you've never done anything to them.

[Kuno of Gersenau]

And what is with this thing:

E) Try to find out the reasons for this hate and look that you can eleminate it, but without any weapon!

?

*not so simply like killing people, but maybe it would help...*

[Sir Turylon]

Originally posted by Kuno of Gersenau
And what is with this thing:

E) Try to find out the reasons for this hate and look that you can eleminate it, but without any weapon!

?

*not so simply like killing people, but maybe it would help...*

I agree. But it is very easy for us to talk about such things... Do you realize how much oposition this would cause if the US went on a crusade to reform Islamic fundementalists? the ACLU would scream bloody murder!

[Kuno of Gersenau]

Sorry, what is the ACLU? And why would they scream murder when they don't use weapons?

Clear it's easy to talk about it, but I think nobody ever tried to do it! Why not?

And I don't talk about a crusade, crusades are violence for me...;)

[Sir Turylon]

Originally posted by Kuno of Gersenau
Sorry, what is the ACLU? And why would they scream murder when they don't use weapons?

Clear it's easy to talk about it, but I think nobody ever tried to do it! Why not?

And I don't talk about a crusade, crusades are violence for me...;)


Crusades are not violent by definition.

Crusade is just a movment based on a central idea. Civil Rights Crusade. Abolitionism Crusade... etc.

ACLU = American Civil Liberties Union.

Basically... it is the American Communist Liberalism Union.

They would scream foul if we even tried it. :) Right now... they are on an antit-Christian crusade to remove all references and utterances of God, Christ, Christianity from the public square. Quite sad that a "Civil liberties" group is trying to take away one of our civil rights. :(

[Hector]

Originally posted by Sir Turylon
I agree. But it is very easy for us to talk about such things... Do you realize how much oposition this would cause if the US went on a crusade to reform Islamic fundementalists? the ACLU would scream bloody murder!

eh war had opposition to.

[Angryminer]

"Quite sad that a "Civil liberties" group is trying to take away one of our civil rights."
Thats the french practise to destinct between religion and the state. So everyone can have his own religious believes, but the state won't influence this in any way. (Please note the 'any')
That's what I call freedom :) .

"Basically... it is the American Communist Liberalism Union."
I just hope that you don't want to say "liberalism = communism" - you might want to point that out clearly so no one can misunderstand this ;) .

"Do you realize how much oposition this would cause if the US went on a crusade to reform Islamic fundementalists?"
What sense of reformation?
The Allies were particularly successfull in 'denazificating' Germany after the WWII, so a 'deextremisation' of Iraq seems quite near to reality.

Angryminer

[Siena]

Originally posted by Sir Turylon

@Siena
I agree. most Americans are naive and childish about foreign policy. But.. The same can be said for Europeans that think their own foreign policy is better.

Question: Would you rather...
A) Go after terrorists before they strike your own country
B) Wait till they strike and then wait for other nations to finally realize the terorists are a threat
C) Protect your own soverignty by trying to destroy a clear and present danger to your nation.
D) Do nothing at all and just hope the terrorists don't come after you cause you've never done anything to them.

Europeans know their history, so most of them have a lot of common sense about what foreign policy should be.

And my country does not step on everybody's toes and does not push everybody around, so I think there is small danger of terorist attack there.
Besides, is you read that article here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5279743) - even CIA officer agrees that terrorists are not the same as criminals. Terrorists die for idea, and there would be NO reason to go die attacking country that never did anything bad to you.

In America's case the best policy now would be to identify what makes most muslims so angry and try to adjust foreign policy to deal with that so that most muslims would be content. And then eliminate hardcore terrorists - who in that case would not have endless reinforcements.
So that is one way - the other way - just continue current war... just like Israel does... for many many years....

[the knightly sword]

my only comment BLAME THE POLITICIONS

they are the major problems of these warsif they ruled peacefully the palstin and israel wouldint fight .beyond civilsations ween we were monkey humans we had wars can you belive it.we humans are sick i hope the cows invade uss and make uss soul less animals.

[Sir Turylon]

@Siena
Oh. so Americn policy makers are ignorant and stupid... but European policy makers are smart and savy to history? What a joke. How many times has Europe repeated a mistake over and over, never learning from it.

Point is... your policy is made by your own political process to benefit your own country. American policy is done the same way. Just because our policy does not agree with your policy does NOT make yours superior. (and to think somebody said Americans thought they were superior to all others....) American policy will always be decided on what the best interests of our sovereign nation are. Unlike some other countries... We will not be dictated to be terrorists and their agendas. Our history is filled with such examples. So.. grow up.. brush that chip off your shoulder... and stop downing our policy because you think it is so inferior to your own. (appeasement, ignorance of the threat, and let's all be happy and don't worry about anything.... the 70s movement is dead... time to wake up to the 21st century) :)

@ Angryminer.

no, you misread that. the ACLU has been going on a crusade to remove all mention of God from the public square... thus imposing Antheism on all public forums. This is in direct contradiction to the US Constitution. These expressions were not trying to force any one single religion on the people. for example.. "In God we trust" could mean Allah, God, Yaweh.... how is that forcing 1 religion on people? Hear about the Supreme Court throwing the pledge suit out? If you force all mention of God out of public square... you are forcing atheism into a nation founded on Christianity. we'd turn into.... FRANCE!!!!!!!! AH!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Liberals are not Communists 100% of the time. Liberalism is found in Marxist ideaology though.

You cannot reform a religious ideaology quickly. Nazism was a political movement, not religious movement. Something to think about.

[Ben Nevis]

I pormised to stop politics for a week, but couldn't let this one go

American policy will always be decided on what the best interests of our sovereign nation are

I hope this will change in the future.

Nice analogy,
In the US increasing shareholder value is the only goal of a company

In Europe and especially Germany all stakeholders are taken into account (stakeholders are all parties involved in a company, such as employees, environmentalists, shareholders, etc. etc.). In Germany companies even have a moral obligation to do what is in the interest of the country/public/people.

I think if the US wants to have a foreign policy they should certainly take other nations and its civilians into account. If they don't they should shut down their borders and don't engage in any wars on "other's soil".

It's pretty selfish to do everything solely in your own interest.

[Ben Nevis]

btw, is communism a swearword for you, Turylon?

Personally I think communism is a nice ideology. It's not practical, but I certainly like the ideology.

Liberalism is the opposite of Communism

Liberalism - everybody should take their own responsibility and is capable in doing so.

Communism - Not everybody is capable of taking their own responsibility and therefore the government has to take the responsibility.


Liberalism was founded in France way before communism saw daylight.

[Siena]

Originally posted by Sir Turylon
@Siena
Oh. so Americn policy makers are ignorant and stupid... but European policy makers are smart and savy to history? What a joke. How many times has Europe repeated a mistake over and over, never learning from it.

Point is... your policy is made by your own political process to benefit your own country. American policy is done the same way. Just because our policy does not agree with your policy does NOT make yours superior. (and to think somebody said Americans thought they were superior to all others....) American policy will always be decided on what the best interests of our sovereign nation are. Unlike some other countries... We will not be dictated to be terrorists and their agendas. Our history is filled with such examples. So.. grow up.. brush that chip off your shoulder... and stop downing our policy because you think it is so inferior to your own. (appeasement, ignorance of the threat, and let's all be happy and don't worry about anything.... the 70s movement is dead... time to wake up to the 21st century) :)


I did not say "European policy makers are smart and savy to history" - I said "Europeans" - meaning in general - on average... And that is quite obvious and easy to see.

Regarding repeating mistakes - Americans do that too, don't they?
However, I am talking about current situation.

Also, I am not saying that European policy is superrior. By the way there are many different policies among European countries too - they are far from being the same.
However, it is not Europe that is ingniting wars at this time, is it?

Also, your post was asking about America, not Europe, so that is what I answered about.

Besides, I am not a "policy-maker" - so I do not have "my" policy. And same with you. So you don't have to talk to me like an official representative of USA, who can affect American policy. Because you cannot.

Also, I can have my opinion about things, no matter that I cannot change them.

And finally - I was not talking about being dictated by terrorists. Of course, it would be stupid for any government to do so. However, if the "terrorists" are supported by most of the nation - then the problem is bigger than that. And solution requires policy adjustments towards that nation or nations.

[Ben Nevis]

let's show some sign of affection guys

:hug: :cheers: :bowl:

[Hector]

The U.S. should let the international tribuneral judge over their soldiers like in any other country then it would be fair.

[Ben Nevis]

and they should sign Kyote

[Drake Maethor]

OK!
Three pages...
and I haven't read even one...
This post has gone out of my control!
:eek:
I've created a moooonster!!!

[Largefry07]

I'm like Drake, I havn't really read any of these posts. But the only reason why I think US should of invaded Iraq is to save the Iraqi people from their dictater.

Are the mods and the head people of this discussion broad going to delete this the "Off Topic Royal Inn" part of the broad? B/c thats what happen to Anno 1503. And I believe it was partly b/c of a thread about the Iraqi war.

[Dobber]

Originally posted by Drake Maethor
OK!
Three pages...
and I haven't read even one...
This post has gone out of my control!
:eek:
I've created a moooonster!!!

Drake, you still have control over it!
You can make the monster go away by deleting the post you started the thread with. It will all go away into the black hole.:D