Holy Rome 1.7

[Elvain]

Yes, it's great..

I tested it and it works fine

and of course it belong shere.. I'll put the link into the first post if you don't mind :go:

[Traveller]

Yes, thanks! And I've also noted it in the Bulgarian thread, cuz that's where it would be most useful. Too bad I can't test myself, cuz I'd like to see HRE too!

[Elvain]

I'm not sure if I already said it.

I don't plan further versions of this mod. I may update this versions when some serious objections emerge, but HR 1.7 is the last version of this mod...

unless a miracle happens and the game gets official support

btw, More probably you'll find my help on Paradox forums which are anyway more vital concerning KoH than SF forums

[zach34]

This mod is really great. The 1.6 to 1.7 jump was a lot better than I expected. Getting your spy installed as a king twice in one game is so great. Handing over all that territory is very satisfying.

[Elvain]

thanks, it's pleasing to see those wour words...

I'm glad you like it :go:

[derrickthegreat]

how do u unite the roman empire?

[Elvain]

pick Byzantia, France of some country that can unite Holy Roman Empire (or Holy Roman Empire) and conquer most of the mediterranean (especially north) and some parts of south France and south Germany and you make it.
I don't know all the provinces exactly now as I am off my computer for over a month.

Look at the file defs/quests/unite_romans.in2 and there you can find all conditions exactly. But I like it to try eventhough I don't know all the conditions exactly..

good luck :go:

[derrickthegreat]

i ended up uniting it i played as byzantia and congured all the baltic nations then the middle east and north africa then moved to spain and france the germany and finally italy and croatia to connet the two empires

[Ranika]

Will there be more new units in forthcoming builds, if there will be more? I'll preface these suggestions with this; I don't expect them to be done, nor will I be put out if they're not. I just like this mod and think it'd be a good place for them. This is pretty expressly about Gaelic soldiery, but also a mention of the Welsh.

I was thinking bout appropriate kerns (light infantry with javelins) and gallowglass (mail armored two-handed axe or swordsmen, or sword with shield, and either time, again with javelins). For historicity's sake, they could replace ahistoric 'highlanders' (the medieval highlanders were often called 'Irish' because they were culturally very much the same, and fought in a similar manner). Just a thought, the highlands and Ireland never get much of a decent treatment of history. There was a complex military structure (the Ceithernn {anglicized to 'Kerns', the Cliarthairi {troopers/professional soldiers, in padded coats}, and the Buanna {mercenaries, such as the Gallowglass}). That and the hobilar are pushed in KoH as Irish 'light' cavalry, except they weren't light cavalry in Ireland. In Ireland, they were heavy cavalry armored in mail (with javelins; note a theme, they loved those damn things), that were partly imitating Norman knights, and partly an outgrowth of mounted contingents of 'Arras' ('Oath-Friends', the bodyguards of a Gaelic king). The English and French hired a lot of Irish mercenaries; they didn't need the armor on their hobilars, and instead gave them the lighter quilted coats (acton), but even then they still had javelins (they were used in part as skirmishers and harriers). Gaelic light horse was just kerns or cliarthairi on horseback, and was much poorer quality; hobilars served as bodyguards for both Gaelic and Norman lords in high and late medieval Ireland.

Sorry for the prolonged rant, just, the region never gets much of a decent treatment. 'Highlanders' are half-naked in kilts (which didn't exist yet; kilts didn't come about until the very late middle ages), when they would have been a combination of lightly armed kerns in trews and a shirt, the Cliarthairi with oval shields, padded armor, and javelins in a knee-length shirt with no trousers (looks like a kilt on a statue to some people) and a cape, and the mercenaries, often by the high middle ages composed of the galloglaich who were much like the Cliarthairi, but armored in mail. Not that I'd expect all of those; but kerns and gallowglass would be nice, as opposed to ahistoric 'highlanders' (they were only set apart because the lowlanders were much more Anglo-Norman in influence, and the highlanders were Gaelic). There's also the point to be made that 'peasants' were not part of Gaelic society, nor were they part of the army; the lowest part of the army was the levy (the Ceithernn, or warband), which was armed and provided with equipment by accordance with local laws (usually requiring them be given a dart, shield, and spear). They would have been somewhat in-between 'spearmen' and 'peasants'; they drilled only very little, though they did have to drill now and again so they could hold a formation, and they were meant to be more augmentary than anything, supporting the core of the army composed of the cliarthairi and buanna (the buannacht/bonnacht portion of the military; the professional soldiers, horse, etc.). I know it's awful anal of me to ramble bout all this at once when so little of it would really matter, but feel the need to make a case at least for kerns and gallowglass (after the Norman invasion of Ireland the army structure degenerated as kings had trouble levying actual bodies of soldiers locally, and had to hire more gallowglass; as such, the Cliarthairi degenerated and ultimately were totally replaced by gallowglass companies). They would be unique and historically accurate and would provide a much more realistic selection of soldiers in that area (if there can be Norman infantry who are just heavy swordsmen with slightly different stats, I don't see why there can't be kerns, who would be 'peasant/spearmen' with javelins).

Not to intone any ire or anything, I just really like this mod, I like historical things and set ups, and I think it would make playing in those regions a bit nicer (besides, the English hired a good number of Irish Gaelic soldiers when fighting the Scots for a reason). The armies, if they had those units possible (kerns, gallowglass, hobilar, as they are now, in Ireland {or light cav in general}, and archers {though they also still used slings a lot}), that would comprise the majority of the build up of Gaelic armies at the time, and other units could be removed from those regions (though they did use pikes, and prior to the Normans in Ireland, longbow companies began to be used in Munster, and pike companies were used all over Ireland and in highland Scotland). A smaller unit selection, but the key units would be more 'all-around', which represented the way Gaels liked to fight (and would represent the variety of soldiers actually used; at least in Ireland, they had well recorded organization of companies apparently with many types of soldiers, but no need to explore that).

Outside of Gaelic regions, was thinking about Teulu or Bonhedwyr in Wales. Teulu were the equivalent of knights; they wore mail, iron helmets, carried a sword or spear, and sometimes javelins (a common accoutrement of many 'Celtic' derived soldiers even quite late). Bonhedwyr were the free-farmers and their retainers (tribal chiefs and such), armored lightly with light mail or scale shirts, with swords, thick shields, and throwing spears. The Teulu might not be so imperative; some other generic cavalry unit might be able to represent them. Bonhedwyr might be interesting though, they would be fairly good quality shock infantry. Smaller area though than the Gaelic stuff (just one province, though technically some would be in Cornwall still initially, as there were a few Brythonic chiefdoms in the west of it). Just a thought though. Western horse archers might be a reasonable regional piece though; the Welsh used them for border raiding. However, given the current line of where things are going, guess what history I got my degree studying (well, it's actually just dark age and medieval Ireland, mostly prior to the Norman invasion, with some work on the Scottish highlands, and 'Irish' Wales {Dyfedd and some other regions at times had Gaelic aristocracies}). Course, for 'spear' types (the kerns and bonhedwyr), the Gaels and Britons tended to fight with a spear overhand; it'd work as well in animation for throwing a spear I'd imagine.

[Sir Sean]

why in HR 1.7 do at the begining of each game do you get a letter say that france has been restored and england has been restord. it does this to all the all the powerful nations.
and how do you make yourself be restored.

[Elvain]

this was made to give bonus to powerfull AI kingdoms.
All kingdoms that own one of the most important cities recieves gold bonus. If a player owns the city, he recieves nothing because it is mde to give the bonus to Ai, not to the player

[Wolfitz]

Jo Elvain, I love you Rome mod, I think its fantastic. I haven't yet played your 1.7 mod, but I will do that soon. I just had one concern about this game, and I don't know if your able to fix it or not. I always find the battles a little non-historic, since the army sizes are so small compared to historic terms, I mean army sizes in those days weren't a couple of hundred soldiers, but usually thousands, or tens of thousands, and on rare occasions hundreds of thousands. Now, I don't expect to see those vast numbers of men, but I think it would be possible to implement such numbers as thousands of soldiers, and I believe that would make the game just the better, seeing all those men clash and hack. Maybe this is too far fatched, but I think this would ultimately help the game.:biggrin:

[Elvain]

hi, thanks for nice words about my mod.

About high numbers, I am not that sure about that high numbers, as far as I know medieval history, the states mostly couldn't afford to fight with much more than few thousands men (f.i. in battle of Bouvines there were not more than 5 thousands soldiers on both sides together, battle of Agincourt had about 20000 on both sides). Battles with more than 10000 men were very rare, but I would leave this to another discussion.

I don't know which version you played, I raised the numbers a little, but if the numbers will be very high it would make the game highly unstable.
But in 1.7 version the biggest armies have over 500 men (each knight) so in the ideal case your battle (town assault with reinforcements on both sides) can have over 2200 men what is not very far from historical accurancy

I hope you'll enjoy 1.7 version :go:

[Wolfitz]

Yeah, your right about the numbers of soldiers, and having 2200 men in single battle is a very nice size. But, good work on your modding, and hope to maybe see some more:biggrin:

[Traveller]

About high numbers, I am not that sure about that high numbers, as far as I know medieval history, the states mostly couldn't afford to fight with much more than few thousands men (f.i. in battle of Bouvines there were not more than 5 thousands soldiers on both sides together, battle of Agincourt had about 20000 on both sides). Battles with more than 10000 men were very rare, but I would leave this to another discussion.
Do you wanna argue about that? :wink: It depends first on which period (earlier periods usually had larger armies, later ones - smaller, but from mercs or profs), on which region and conditions for living - the further east and the harsher the conditions - the bigger the armies (again, as a militia type, not profs). So, on 20th August, 917 - Battle of Anchialus - least numbers are 60 000 Bulgarians vs. 62 000 Byzantines. It depends on extremely many conditions (level of mobilization and so on). But I guess this is actually off-topic... :wink:

[Ranika]

Pre-Norman Ireland was cut, in terms of the military levy, into Riocht Trecha Cet. 'Realm of Thirty Hundreds'; a part of a kingdom from which one could get 3000 soldiers; the kingdom of Munster alone had a southern royal army of about 7000 men and that's a small area (though Ireland was roughly as populated as all of Britain at the time; being only about 40% of the size of Britain, the population was much denser).

[Elvain]

not that I don't want to discuss numbers of soldiers, but I would like to keep the topic here and it already happened to me several times that it turned wrong

so if anyone wants to discuss numbers of soldiers please use History thread or open a nnew thread.

Th only thing I say is that no matter where and when, the chroniclerers were exagerrating always and everywhere. The only thing we can argue is how much

[patriot1]

I played 5 or 6 games on the mod and i can already say i don`t regret of not back up-ing my files as asked to do in the read me!Nice mod:new units,enchanced economy,realistic trade,landlords now give higher bonuses(which is great),great idea of upgr buildings rather then building new ones!I just never understood why adding walls and defense will stop merchants rather then encouraging them to trade in the town??Anyways the best mod made for koh so far or at least the most fittabe for me.Looking forward to new versions! 4,5/5

[Elvain]

thanks. I'm glad to see you like the mod

just never understood why adding walls and defense will stop merchants rather then encouraging them to trade in the town??it doesn't stop them.
But when you have a town wall, to have effective defence you need to repair it and improve. That's why it has "money penalty"
With advanced military buildings: they are advnaced and need many resources (for training soldiers and producing expensive armours and weapons) and have very low economical effect so you should pay for it

btw the iodea of upgrading is not perfectly mine. I guess it was Angryminer who came up with this idea :go:

[patriot1]

thanks. I'm glad to see you like the mod

it doesn't stop them.
But when you have a town wall, to have effective defence you need to repair it and improve. That's why it has "money penalty"
With advanced military buildings: they are advnaced and need many resources (for training soldiers and producing expensive armours and weapons) and have very low economical effect so you should pay for it

btw the iodea of upgrading is not perfectly mine. I guess it was Angryminer who came up with this idea :go:

It is a good reason!I would never had thought about it !:rolleyes:
btw did Venice or Genoa actually had town walls!?