Holy Rome 1.7

[DSMyers1]

1. Resources are generated randomly. There is no historic influence at all. Your poor northern germany was just a matter of bad luck. Next game start it'll be different.
2. The AI doesn't take strategic decisions. It randomly does what it can do.
Can it adopt people in the town where the cleric currently is? If so, adopt. If not, look for something else to do. Nothing to do? Do nothing.
Can it construct a building? If so, find out how many are currently affordable. Build a random one of those.
That's why the AI is so weak. It just isn't aware of the rebelion risk. It's a matter of pure luck if it manages to reduce it. That's why nostalgia is such a burden to the AI. In my mod I removed nostalgia, because in the medieval age there was no significant nationalism. That helped the AI a lot and Elvain picked that concept up (Elvain and I have been supporting each other a lot with ideas for our mods).

Angryminer

So the AI is utterly random?? No wonder you all want a patch. Is there any way at all to get the AI to save money, so some of the more expensive buildings are in the list of buildings it randomly chooses from? If so, limiting the number of buildings possible might be useful. I am amazed that the AI would be completely random...

Right now, there seems to be little preventing the big nations from simply eating up the smaller ones through gigantic incomes. Could trade be a mechanism for strengthening the smaller nations, and weakening the larger ones? If the trade income is relatively constant, it would benefit the smaller nations (with lower base income) relatively more than the larger ones. Or was that a problem with the game--it was to easy to expand as a small nation, if you were playing it...

Another question: how well does the event system work? It seems that there are some events that work in this Holy Rome mod. Could those be expanded to help the AI more? For example--could some events randomly fire that simply give the AI large sums of money, or buildings? If it comes to a task of simply generating events, my brother has written an event generating program that could easily be adapted to generate large numbers of events.

EDIT: And another question: if I made some important buildings cost little gold but take a ton of workers/working time, would the AI be more likely to purchase them?

[Angryminer]

1. There are some sectors where the Ai takes senseful actions. The military AI will watch out what needs to be done and sends marshalls to do it. Is there a rebel? Attack him. Are we at war with somone? Attack any of our enemies. that works quite well.
But the construction AI picks randomly. There are scriptfiles that indicate otherwise, but I never saw that happening. The AI will once in a while ask itself wether it wants to build something. The best bet to make the AI build sophisticated constructions is to give it so much money that by the time it wants to build something it has enough to build proper buildings. Or edit the prices of buildings so the correct build order is determined by the price. Then the Ai is likely to build the buildings in the order of their price tag.
2. The event system does this: "If these provinces are conquered by that nation, display this message to that nation and grant him that bonus."
You can make these events look very random by f.e. granting Scotland 200 gold If Ayyubids conquer Crete or something similarly unrelated. The scotish player won't know why it triggered. A german modder, Laudan, used that to create events like "Famine! Buy food or lose kingdom power!"
3. Actually big AI empires are very weak in KoH. Remember, the AI isn't aware of it's peoples happyness. At some time it's limited armies will fail and the empire will fall apart, unless you make empires rock solid (no nostalgia, very cheap marshalls and units).

Angryminer

[Doux]

Is there a way to make it so the Admiralty (for instance) can obtain the books (like in the vanilla game) but leave in the game the path to illustrated books that you put in (that is, have to paths to the resource?).In vanilla KoH, the books also come from the universities - that has always been so :wink: I think it would be possible to let two different buildings produce the same resource, but that just has to be tested..

[...] limiting the number of buildings possible might be useful.Absolutely! Several mods simplified the build tree.

It is easy as the player to expand your empire, but what I have mostly experienced is that larger nations don't hold for very long when lead by the AI - usually they break up by rebellions or just can't deal with the very extended borders (risk of invasions).

Edit: A con of giving the AI large sums of money (as is done in several mods by quests), is that the AI thinks "I have so much money, I can hire many knights, like spies", then their income is so negative that their money drops to nowhere and the AI has to send off the Knights again. The overall gain for the AI is, of course, none, that way. Best would probably be to give the AI injections of smaller sums of money over a time period, but I don't know how to implement that.

[Elvain]

So the AI is utterly random?? No wonder you all want a patch. Is there any way at all to get the AI to save money, so some of the more expensive buildings are in the list of buildings it randomly chooses from? If so, limiting the number of buildings possible might be useful. I am amazed that the AI would be completely random...I think there could be a way how to make build tree for the AI depending on province features etc. but only if it's enabled the patch (which promisses to make the game more modding friendly)

Right now, there seems to be little preventing the big nations from simply eating up the smaller ones through gigantic incomes. Could trade be a mechanism for strengthening the smaller nations, and weakening the larger ones? ... Or was that a problem with the game--it was to easy to expand as a small nation, if you were playing it...well, the problem was that big countries can't stand the small ones. Normal scheme was that a big country had generaly the same income as a small one. Small sends one marshal to big's province (has no need to keep him home) but the big isn't able to even defend his lands(against minors and rebels) So mostly the result of war between major vs. minor resulted in the end of the major.
In Holy Rome I switched it so the majors eat minors (higher income enables to hire more knights, especially traders)

Another question: how well does the event system work? It seems that there are some events that work in this Holy Rome mod. Could those be expanded to help the AI more? For example--could some events randomly fire that simply give the AI large sums of money, or buildings?
Laudan has succeeded in activating deactivated events, but I don't really know how

EDIT: And another question: if I made some important buildings cost little gold but take a ton of workers/working time, would the AI be more likely to purchase them?
es, but there is a problem that then the building is ridiculously cheap for the player

[DSMyers1]

I think there could be a way how to make build tree for the AI depending on province features etc. but only if it's enabled the patch (which promisses to make the game more modding friendly)

Theoretically, that doesn't sound hard. Angryminer said that there were some scripts for build order, but that they didn't seem to do anything. Perhaps they could be enabled without too much difficulty in the next patch. It is quite odd that something that doesn't do anything would be included in the game...perhaps they ran out of time developing the game. I hope the patch does fix that--right now, that seems to be the biggest weakness of the game, which has perhaps the second best concept I have seen in a computer game (after Europa Universalis--I know, I'm biased).

well, the problem was that big countries can't stand the small ones. Normal scheme was that a big country had generaly the same income as a small one. Small sends one marshal to big's province (has no need to keep him home) but the big isn't able to even defend his lands(against minors and rebels) So mostly the result of war between major vs. minor resulted in the end of the major.
In Holy Rome I switched it so the majors eat minors (higher income enables to hire more knights, especially traders)

Okay, I didn't really realize that the minors' power had been that big of an issue. My background is in EU2, where the majors are somewhat over-powered, so I am used to trying to weaken the bigs.

Laudan has succeeded in activating deactivated events, but I don't really know how

I see. Perhaps that too will be worked on in the patch.

Yes, but there is a problem that then the building is ridiculously cheap for the player

Yes, but at least the AI would have the same production capabilities. And note, the working time would be increased to compensate. The AI does not take into account the working time, correct?

Of course, I'm going to wait for the patch to come out to see if I'll actually do any significant modding. I did two major mods for EU2, and that really took a lot of time--and I start my first full time job in a couple of weeks. So I doubt whether I'll have enough time, anyway.

[Elvain]

Theoretically, that doesn't sound hard. Angryminer said that there were some scripts for build order, but that they didn't seem to do anything. Perhaps they could be enabled without too much difficulty in the next patch. It is quite odd that something that doesn't do anything would be included in the game...perhaps they ran out of time developing the game. I hope the patch does fix that--right now, that seems to be the biggest weakness of the game, which has perhaps the second best concept I have seen in a computer game (after Europa Universalis--I know, I'm biased).not even theorretically. Those scripts exist, but they have no connnection with province features.
So the Ai builds the same way in a province where he can build ionly basic and military buildings and in province where he can build university. That's what I meant.
AI should build in a different way in province with 3 province features and in a province with no features. We need to be able to change other scripts which could influence it and tell AI to be wiser. But the files that are moddable ATM don't seem to enable it

Okay, I didn't really realize that the minors' power had been that big of an issue. My background is in EU2, where the majors are somewhat over-powered, so I am used to trying to weaken the bigs.I'd like to try EU2. Speaking histrically. It's much more accurate that the majors eat minors (EU2) than that the minors eat majors (KoH)

Yes, but at least the AI would have the same production capabilities. And note, the working time would be increased to compensate. The AI does not take into account the working time, correct?right, but how many players take building time into account?
and when the building is buildable only in one province who cares it takes hours to build it?

[royfang]

May I know how do I change the title of the ruler of Papacy?

Its very irrating to see the news that the Pope has died and when you click on papacy, it says Pope (ruler name).

[Elvain]

maps/Europe/map/kingdoms_800.ini
maps/Europe/map/kingdoms_1000.ini
maps/Europe/map/kingdoms_1200.ini
name = Papacy
capital = 78
color1 = 9
color2 = 15
ornament = 6
polit_color = 179
human = 0
team = 0
fame = 1000
king_h = 0
king_id = 0
heir_id = 0
reputation = 0
title = Dominion
king_title = Pope
religion = 1,6
realms = 78
if you want some new title, it should be also scripted in Texts/knights/titles;more.tsv

the problem is in dualism of titles. Every state is ruled by some ruler while papacy technically should be ruled by the pope, but the institution of pope has diferent status.

I think that they should both be one person (if a cleric is elected pope he could be kingdom's puppet "king" of Papacy), but the game knows them as 2. I don't know any better title. Doge of papacy sounds even more wierd...

[royfang]

I change the title 'Pope' to Archbishop, which means the same but it better this way for me.

if you want some new title, it should be also scripted in Texts/knights/titles;more.tsv

Do I add it like this? (the bolded line) or do I had to remove the 'Pope/ pope/ Pope/ Popes' line?

Do I have to change anything in the Texts/knights/titles and Texts/knights/titlesfmt?

key base cap a plc
default a <base> <cap>s
Duchess duchess Duchess Duchesses
Countess countess Countess Countesses
Doge doge Doge Doges
Grand Master grand master Grand Master Grand Masters
Crusader crusader Crusader Crusaders
Vevoda vévoda Vévoda Vévodové
Rytir rytir Rytir Rytiri
Archduke archduke Archduke Archdukes
Pope pope Pope Popes
Steward steward Steward Stewards
Knez knez Knez Knezi
Margrave margrave Margrave Margraves
Markgraf markgraf Markgraf Margraves
Kurfirst kurfirst Kurfirst Kurfirsts
Riteris riteris Riteris Riterais
Graaf graaf Graaf Graafs
Comte comte Comte Comtes
Kagan kagan Kagan Kagans
Archbishop archbishop Archbishop Archbishops

[Elvain]

leave Pope as it is, it won't have any effect...

It should run only with this change. titles;more.tsv is just extension of titles.tsv

[Dobber]

I notice the last entry he made in the file is Archbishops, that is the spot designating the pic to use, correct? Is there a pic for Archbishop? I am not a modder and may be way off base.

[Elvain]

oh I meant as it was changed it should be correct :go:

[Miezko I Piast]

Yes, Elvain, great work! :go: I saw the changes in the map of Europe and your readme, just came here for any tips/advice. But I put the mappack up after checking it out regular HR 1.7. Maybe a question for all - what exactly does the mappack do that the reg. mod doesn't? Anyway, for your changes, you are a saint of KoH! :angel:


*edit* maybe my dumbass should have a look myself!

[Elvain]

everything what is in mappack is in the mod itself. Mappack is just for those who like unmodded game, but like the map to be more accurate.

Thanks for so nice words :blush: I don't think I deserve them at all..

[Miezko I Piast]

ahh, thanks for the clearity! :angel:

[Elvain]

btw, there's also Laudan's MOD HARD which is very good too, some people even say it's better.

But if you like spies and alternative ways of expansion, I believe you'll like my mod more :wink:

[Miezko I Piast]

ahah. I prefer total conversion mods if you call it that. A "hard" mod is probably just like there being a very hard difficulty option when there is none. Elvain... don't underestimate yourself... :bowdown:

[royfang]

I noticed that the spelling for Jewels and Jewelry is wrong. It is spelled Jewles and Jewelery in the game.

And I went to change the name in the texts and the name of the image, but when I play the game, an error pops up saying that the image can't be opened.

Can you help me?

[Elvain]

Don't change the image.

Only what needs a change is Texts/Economy/buildings;2.ini
[jewlery]

1 = Jewelery


[jewlery_desc]

1 = The %1Jewelry% produces jewels from silver. It gives gold bonus to the town.


Also what needs to be changed is Texts/Economy/valuablesdesc.ini
[gems_desc]
1 = %4Jewels% are made from precious stones and silver. They are one of the most luxury trade goods known in middle ages.


and Texts/Economy/valuables.tsv
key base
default
wax Wax
honey Honey
wine Wine
ink Ink
linen Linen
salt Salt
silver Silver
hides Hides
parchment Parchment
books Illustrated Books
wool Wool
meat Meat
leather Leather
horses Horses
statues Statues
columns Columns
clothes Clothes
tackling Tackling
dyes Dyes
gems Jewels
silk Brocade
ebony Wooden Tools
ivory Ivory
spices Spices
sugar Sugar
amber Amber

[Doux]

I notice the last entry he made in the file is Archbishops, that is the spot designating the pic to use, correct? Is there a pic for Archbishop? I am not a modder and may be way off base.The file can de decoded as follows (note that the entries are separated by a |tab|):key base cap a plc
default a <base> <cap>s
Graaf graaf Graaf [a Graaf] Graven
1 2 3 4 51. = key, the key is the hardcoded tag which the executable file searches for in the file
2. = base, the standard text string, without a capital
3. = cap, the standard text string, with a capital
4. = indefinite article specification, left blank if the word has the indefinite article "a" [standard] e.g. 'a university', or specified "an" if the word has that article e.g. 'an anode'.
5. = plural form, left blank if it it has the standard form <cap>s, otherwise it is specified.

___
Well explained Elvain! Do you still mod daily? Maybe you secretly work on HR 1.8? You seem to know the information very well, still :wink: