Religion question

[Sir Nikephorion]

We already talked about it in the German forum.

I stated that the moslem leaders can make a jihad but just when there was a crusade before, because jihad doesn´t mean conquering the christian countries it means liberation of occupied moslem countries, as you can see moslems had been more cultivated than Christians at that time...

The pagans... Maybe can the Gods of the pagans do some miracles in the game, who knows...

[Elewyn]

yes, muslims were more cultivated. But Jihad means something like "saint war aggainst non-believers" more than reconquest. It's war in the name of bringing people of other nations the right belief/faith. (btw, crusades were also no official expansion, except Baltic crusades. It was meant as reconquest of christian Holy Land or defeating heretics (not our lady Heretic!:)) and bringing them the right belief/faith-something little similar to jihad, as much as it is possible to compare)

What was an answer in german forum? jihad or not?

[Angryminer]

Yes, Frank Fay said that there will be Jihads. I think he said it the english forum once. But that was long ago.

Angryminer

[Elewyn]

found no word about it in english forum :( not even long time ago (very long time ago there was only one Religion for KoH, long time ago no jihad mentioned)

[Sir Nikephorion]

Has anybody an idea what the orthodox or the pagans could do?

Frank said that every religion has its own ways to make something like crusades or jihads, but what are the orthodox christians oor the pagans doing?

[WAR_PIG]

What I would like to know is whether or not Pagan nations will be able to send out emissaries/religious entities to change other people to their faith. Bug the HELL out of me in MTW that I couldn't play a Pagan nation

[Angryminer]

Yes, pagans can convert others too.

Angryminer

[Sir Nikephorion]

But there aren´t many Pagan countries... What countries could be pagan?

[Kuno of Gersenau]

In early periods the vikings, the baltic states and parts of Russia maybe

Around 1200 maybe also Baltic regions (Pruzzen)...

But in the latest period around 1350 I don't know if there are anymore Pagans...

[Finellach]

Also Bosnia, there was actually quite large pagan population in Bosnia all until 1463 and the fall under the Turks. They were called Bogumils, basically this was a Christian sect. It's believe most of them converted to Islam.

[Elewyn]

Lithuania was pagan untill 1387 as far as I know. Heretic? Vytis? Bagpipe? Siautas? Siena?

[Nike]

Originally posted by Finellach
Also Bosnia, there was actually quite large pagan population in Bosnia all until 1463 and the fall under the Turks. They were called Bogumils, basically this was a Christian sect. It's believe most of them converted to Islam.

Actually the Bogomils were persecuted very much in their homeland (Bulgaria) and they ran away to Western and Central Europe where they "helped" with the ideas of the Renassaince and the Reformation. One of the things we are "proud" of!:D

[Finellach]

Bogumil's(or Bogomil's) did not start in Bulgaria, but in Macedonia(part of) which was at that time under the Bulgarian rule. Bogumil's "religion" then spread all the way to Bosnia and Dalmatia and was probably spreading througout the Byzantine Empire, but the main center (especially later) was Bosnia since they were later supported by Bosnian rulers. The reason for creation of this order was mainly defience to Orthodox Patriarchs and the Catholic Pope who used their religion for their own goals and benefits and as such were persecuted.

[Frujin]

@Finellach: Wrong, mate. Here is some info about the topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogomils

@Nike: Not exacly, the bogomils were very misterious sect indeed. They had their sparks, but also it is beyound any doubt, they were significant factor for the eclipse of all Balkan States during Ottoman invasion. Especially in Bosnia, they were one of the strongest factors for it loosing against the Ottomans.

[WAR_PIG]

So, does that mean the pagans WON'T be included in KOH?

[Frujin]

No, that doen't mean that. :)

[WAR_PIG]

Always the mysterious one, Frujin! Any chance in telling me whether or not Pagan nations will be able to spread it's faith as the Christians and Muslims will no doubt be doing?:cheers:

[Vytis]

In 1251 pope Inocentus No4 acknowledged that Lithuania is a christian country after christening of grand prince (and future king) Mindaugas. Theoretically that could be christening of Lithuania No1. However, practically people (and probably the king himself) stayed pagan.
In 1387 christening of Lithuania by Jogaila (Jagiello).
In 1416-21 christening of Samogitia by Vytautas.

[Bagpipe]

Originally posted by Elewyn
Lithuania was pagan untill 1387 as far as I know. Heretic? Vytis? Bagpipe? Siautas? Siena?

I am here.
Yes, exactly. Briefly: Lithuanian rulers found out it is suicidious to stand alone against Christian Europe for the third century, so, decided to join it. However, it helped much to improve Lithuania's communications, raise culture, and defeat our enemies (Teutonic order).

[Finellach]

Frujin Bogomili or Bogumili were members of heretic movement which was formed in the middle of 10th century in Macedonia(and Bulgaria as well) which was at that time under the rule of Bulgarian King Peter(Petar) meaning that part of Macedonia was part of Bulgaria. If you would say they originated in Bulgaria and Macedonia you will not make a mistake. ;)

Btw. I read a few articles about Bosnian Church and honestly I learned a few things I didn't know. It seems that Bosnian Church does not have any connections with Bogomil's or Paulican's.
In fact the first time someone called them Bogomil's was Croatian historian Franjo Racki in 19th century. Also Bosnian Church used a cross, but at the same time we know Bogomil's didn't used it.

If anyone wants more info about this Bosnian Church I could translate some part of the articles I've read.