More on units (another rant)...

[Siena]

Originally posted by Vytis
Or fighting christians when playing pagans :)

that too :cheers:

[Heretic]

Originally posted by Siautas
could somebody (Siena, Bagpipe, Heretic...) give some more links to our friend...
Kas bus tas bus bet Zemaitis neprazus.... [/B]




Here (http://66.188.129.72:5980/History/PreModernEurope/lithuania.htm)
and here (http://depts.washington.edu/baltic/papers/grandduchy.htm) are some information.
Jo,Zemaitis neprazus:cool:

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by d'Honaire
Why not make them a French specific unit? Also, why are the other orders not represented, The Knights Hospitallier, The Knights of Santiago, etc...:cheers: Templars are unique French unit :)

And I think that other military orders are not in game because the developers don't want to make loads of same looking or same units just with different names-although now with having bowmen and archer many of us are curious what is the diference.

Also I would like to know what are the Pronoias, cause I'm really curious how do the developers deal with two byzantine cavalry (one "very heavy"-cataphracts- and one "knight"-pronoias). Of course I will wait until they will be able to answer, just want to let this question to be heard.

But one very interesting thing!!!
Ladies and Lords,
who of you will find Mameluks in unit showcase?:)

one big and colourful THANKS to developers.:cheers: :cheers:

[Heretic]

Find mameluks?

[Elewyn]

yeah. In unit showcase, I forgot to write it down :)

[Heretic]

I found.What's wrong:) ?

[Kuno of Gersenau]

Oh, wow! Now they are horse-units...:)

[Elewyn]

thats the thing, They are mounted :hello: that's reason of that THANKS

[Heretic]

I knew they are mounted:)

[Elewyn]

they were footmen originaly:)

[Heretic]

Oh! But it is good they are mounted now:cheers:

[Finellach]

Originally posted by d'Honaire
As far as the Templars go, they were mainly a French order, but they had forts in other areas of Europe and the Middle East,etc... Why not make them a French specific unit? Also, why are the other orders not represented, The Knights Hospitallier, The Knights of Santiago, etc...:cheers:

Templars are unique French unit. They will be present in France and in "West Germany" which I believe means HRE (I presume in Lorraine and Burgundy) and of course in Rome.

Also what would be the difference excatly between Hospitaliers, Templars and Knights of Santiago? To me they are techniclly the same thing. Especially the Knights Hospitaliers who can also be regarded as French dominated military order. Not that I would not want them, but I don't see the difference...

It's good that Mameluks are mounted. I would've liked them as infantry as well, but it was a bit strange to have Saracens and Mameluks as both infantry. :D

Btw. now as we have Mameluks as cavalry why would we need Desert Cavalry? Weren't they some sort of Desert Cavalry. ;)

[Gorgoroth]

Eh, desert cavalry?! Odd naming I must say. :D

[Elewyn]

I don't think they were "desert cavalry". They were originally Mongols (I guess) and became famous egyptian cavalry. I am really curious what will be the difference between Desert cavalry and Camel riders, except animal of course. The same problem like with Pronoias. They sjhole cover exactly the same area-where desert is, there camels are used ;)

Only if... :scratch: there is a little change and there will be 3 sorts of cavalry:
- light cavalry
- medium cavalry (Ghulams/Mameluks,Pronoias, Crusader cavalry, Boyars, Camel riders/Desert cav.)
- heavy cavalry (second of Ghulams/Mameluks, Cataphracts, Feudals, sec. of Camels/Desert)

??

[Finellach]

Originally posted by Frank Fay
The list is now final. There won't be any new units.

Heh....thats not a good thing. I still think the list needs some polishing.

IMO some new units are unesscessary and some are missing.

I think the ideal would be the next:

Footmen:
Peasants
Swordsmen
Men-at-Arms
Templars
Normans
Teutonic Knights
Highlanders
Saracens
Roman Infantry
Hospitaliers
Knights of Santiago
Macemen

Axe units:
Axemen
Vikings
Varangians

Mounted:
Light Cavalry
Hobilars
Cataphracts
Feudal Knights
Boyars
Camel Riders
Ghulam Cavalry
Mameluks
Pronoias
Spahias
Baltic Cavalry

Polearm units
Spearmen
Halbrediers
Royal(Town) Guard
Jinetes
Akyndji(Akinji)

Ranged units:
Archers
Longbowmen
Crossbowmen
Slingers
Janissary

Mounted and Ranged:
Steppe Horsemen
Horse Archers
Mongolian Cavalry

This IMO would be with the siege units and King and Knight(plus Knights' Guards) the ideal number of units withouth unescessary units like Heavy Archers, Heavy Swordsmen, Crusader Swordsmen and alike...I mean Crusader can be anyone, they were not anything special than normal European swordsmen.

Also the generic units like: Swordsmen, Archers, Spearmen and Peasants should all have distinct look depending on the region they are coming from(Asia Minor, Middle East-North Africa, Europe) instead of adding different units just because of localization.

Originally posted by Frank Fay
I don't think they were "desert cavalry".


Well they will be in a desert, won't they? :D

[Gorgoroth]

???? Janissary werent ranged units only, what are you talking
about? :O
They were often used in melee combat as well.

@ Mameluks - I agree with Frank, they werent "desert cavalry".
I think a Saharan tribal horseman would fit in perfectly as a "desert cavalry". :D



*EDIT*

I should check out the units in the game before I post :D..so the Janissaries are mainly "archers" in the game. :rolleyes:

[Henrik]

It's not that i'm complaining about the number of different units, but looking at the unit list IMO it has grown so large that the different units begin to look like eachother a little - this, as far as i recall, was something the devs had tried to prevent - on the other hand i think it's nice to have all these region specific units !

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by Finellach and edited by Elewyn
Footmen:
Peasants
Swordsmen
Men-at-Arms
Templars
Normans
Teutonic Knights
Highlanders
Saracens
Roman Infantry
Hospitaliers-same like Templars
Knights of Santiago-same like Templars
Macemen
Turkic swordsmen or some one more muslim swordsmen

Axe units:
Axemen
Vikings
Varangians
Slavic axemen - hey, you complained Croatia has no special unit and refuse one which is there and is possible-If not in Croatia, in Bohemia (and Poland) we had good early medieval warriors with axes

Mounted:
Light Cavalry
Hobilars
Cataphracts
Feudal Knights
Boyars
Camel Riders
Ghulam Cavalry
Mameluks
Pronoias - but only if are something very diferent from Cataphracts and if there will be 3 cavalry unit categories
Spahias
Baltic Cavalry
Sergants?-some european medium cavalry
Desert cavalry - almost the same like with Pronoias

Polearm units
Spearmen
Halbrediers
Town Guard
Jinetes
Akyndji(Akinji)
Desert spearmen

Ranged units:
Archers
Longbowmen
Crossbowmen
Slingers
Janissary
Pavise crossbowmen

Mounted and Ranged:
Steppe Horsemen
Horse Archers
Mongolian Cavalry

[Gorgoroth]

Elewyn...Croatia never was and never will be a Slavic country, how the hell on earth would they have "Slavic Axemen"? :rolleyes: Baltic yes, but not Slavic, it is a huge difference.

I think that the units will be fine, we should stop complaining.
I am pretty sure that in the first add-on we will have more special units, thats how the gaming market works. :cheers:

[Finellach]

Elewyn I don't want Slavonic Axemen because I think Axmen is enough. As with Men-at-Arms they would be a bit upgraded unit as opposed regular Swordsmen, but unlike Men-at-Arms Axmen would be in Eastern Europe including Bohemia. ;)

Hospitaliers and Knights of Santiago are virtually the same as Templars I just said that in one of my previous posts, but they were pretty important and IMO it would be cool to have them.Not to mention areas where they were located(Spain, Greece) need some units. Besides who says they have to be the same in KoH? ;)

Turkic Swordsmen wouldn't be much different from a regular Swordsmen with different clothes. This comes in my idea about customization of "generic units"(Swordsmen, Spearmen and Archers).

Desert Cavalry is the same as Mameluks. There are already Camel Riders, Ghulam Cavalry and Mameluks all for the same region. Why another one?

Pavise Crossbowmen?