[en] History

[Mircoslavux]

wow traveler, and have you translated all this?
my compliment:eek:

[Traveller]

Yes, I've translated all except the first half of my last post (about the Bulgarians in the Serbian and Greek rebellions). Otherwise, the article from a week ago is my translation... :rolleyes:

Btw, if anybody has something to say concerning history, be it that he/she found a nice article, pictures or just heard something interesting or wanted to have a discussion - please, write here! It's kinda boring if I make only an archive with my translations...

[Elvain]

I have a question

As I stay in hostel in Jerusalem, I meet here many people from diferent countries and with diferent reasons of their stay here. Big number of them are of course pilgrims...

My question is about the Bible. Do you guys understand it as Ultimate historical source or just one of historical sources?

Coz I found it hard to discuss any historical topic with some of the pilgrims who simply don't accept importance of archaeological excavations in Mesopotamia which prove that the Jewish culture wasn't original and that it was in many aspects inspired by mesopotamian or Kanaanite cultures


Coz archaeological excavations in syria proved that architecture of the David's Temple was inspired by older Kanaanite temples...etc.

so I'd like to know your point of view

[Mircoslavux]

One of the biggest historician Mr. Vojtech Zamarovky died yesterday evening in Prague (26.7.).
This big author will stay always in my memory...
here some points from his life and books:

Vojtech Zamarovský (October 5, 1919, Trenčín - July 26, 2006, Prague) was a popular Slovak writer of historical non-fiction literature. He was also translator from English, German, French and Latin.

After studies of law and economics in Bratislava and Prague Zamarovský moved to Prague and worked in several state offices. Since 1976 he has worked only as a writer. His books concentrated on the life of ancient Mediterranean nations. He wrote both in Slovak and in Czech languages. Zamarovský became immensely popular in Czechoslovakia, and his works were also translated abroad.

He suffered from Parkinson disease, last two months being in coma.


Major works

Books (with literal English translations):

* Bohovia a hrdinovia antických bájí (1969) [Gods and heros of ancient myths] - a dictionary of ancient mythology
* Bohovia a králi starého Egypta (1986) [Gods and kings of ancient Egypt ] - history of ancient Egypt
* Dejiny písané Rímom (1971) [History written by Rome ] - history of the Roman Empire
* Grécky zázrak (1974) [The Greek wonder] - history of ancient Greece
* Ich veličenstvá pyramídy (1977) [Their Majesties, the pyramids ] - on Egyptian pyramids
* Na počiatku bol Sumer (1966) [At the beginning, there was Sumer ] - history of the Sumerians
* Objavenie Tróje (1962) [The discovery of Troia ] - history of archaelogical excavations in Troia and an explanation of old Greek epics and mythology
* Vzkriesenie Olympie (1978) [Resurrection of Olympia ]- history of the Olympic Games
* Za siedmimi divmi sveta (1960) [Quest of the Seven Wonders of the World]- description of ancient monuments and of the corresponding cultures
* Za tajemstvím říše Chetitů (1961) [Quest of the Mystery of the Empire of the Hittites ] - a homage to Bedřich Hrozný (therefore the book was written in Czech first)

TV series (13 episodes):

* Veľké civilizácie staroveku [Great Civilizations of Ancient Times]

[Traveller]

Xuca, here's a nice site (http://www.rastko.org.yu/fotografija/rmarjanovic/default.html) with pictures of the Serbian army from 1912-1915.

[Xuca]

Yes, I know of that site, there's a lot more than just those pics, you may want to browse it a little. :go:

[Traveller]

Oh, nice! Really nice! I see there are some articles on English too, so you don't have to bother translating! :wink: And some are on Bulgarian! Nice... :go:
Adding to my Bookmarks!

[Traveller]

Here are some more pictures of treasures:
A Prehistoric treasure from 3000 BC (http://news.netinfo.bg/index.phtml?tid=20&oid=4750&mgdi=7562)
And a collection of Thracian treasures in the NHM (http://news.netinfo.bg/index.phtml?tid=20&oid=4750&mgdi=4001) (I saw them "live" there this May :tongue: )

[Traveller]

Just another thing I recently translated (and to revive the thread a bit):

“Introduction to the Proto-Bulgarian culture” by Prof. Dimitar Ovcharov
Chapter “Way of life and material culture”, Sub-chapter “The military way of life of the Proto-Bulgarians”, Page 78-82

The complicated history of the Proto-Bulgarian ethnos is saturated with clashes and almost incessant wars. During their movement to the west, the Proto-Bulgarians enter not only into peaceful, but also into military contacts with a number of tribes and nations. This imposes as a distinctive trait the development of military habits and the creation of a military organization, which become a composite and inseparable part of the common life of the population.
The Proto-Bulgarian army was well armed and armoured, which can be seen in a number of material and written sources. Its main battle force was the cavalry, which is quite natural for the nomadic way of life. This trait is being kept even later, when they settle down on one place. The foreign and the home chronicle sources offer rich information about the organization of the Bulgarian army and about its numerous victories.
A main source for the clarifying of the weaponry, the armament and the military technique of the Proto-Bulgarians are the archaeological finds. They are successfully being supplemented by some artistic monuments and mainly by the graffiti-pictures engraved in stone and ceramics. Certain data could be drawn also from the Byzantine and other chronicles. It could certainly be said that the bow and the arrow were the main weapon and this is completely explicable for this age. Iron gads of arrows from various types are being found during excavations. The structure of the bow could be judged only by the artistic monuments. There were two types: normal and reflex. The second one is characteristic for the Proto-Bulgarians and is a triple-twisted flexible rod, which provides for accuracy and a great striking force. Known ever since the Antiquity, it becomes characteristic for the nomads, including for the Proto-Bulgarians. It was used from the horse, to which a great attention has been given, as Leo the Wise testifies. The Proto-Bulgarian warrior, depicted on one of the ewers from the Nagi sent Miklosh treasure, is armed with such a reflex bow, while bone lamellae, with which such bows were coated, are being found at archaeological excavations. The same bows were used by all Turkic communities. Shooting with them during a wild ride on the horses made the attack of the equestrian forces hardly-reflectable indeed.
Among the various types of arrows (triangular, leaf-shaped, lozenge-shaped) there is one forked (bifurcate) type. They are very characteristic for the nomads and are spread in the Eurasian region, in the Caucasus and in Siberia.
The spear is the other widely used type of weapon. Again Leo the Wise notes that most of the warriors have a double offensive weaponry – long spear and bow, which they used according to the events, as it was necessary. It is seen in the pictures that the spears were long and there were small flags placed at their ends. But in the fore-mentioned depiction in the Nagi sent Miklosh treasure, as well as on the Madara relief, it can be seen that there were also short javelins.
Depictions and descriptions of a sword or sabre are rarer and they’re also being found not very often during archaeological excavations. A typical sabre is placed near buried men in the Novi Pazar necropolis. The presence of sabres in the arsenal of the Bulgarians should be directly connected to the nomadic tradition. This is a main weapon of the horseman, which he uses to cut down his enemy. The finds in the Saltovo necropolis show that this weapon appears already in the end if the VII c. and is acquired by a number of tribes, including the Proto-Bulgarians.
In both editions/versions of the Passional of Ioanaicius of Byzantium, made in the IX c., but describing events from the VIII c., there are reports for the Proto-Bulgarian use in battle of arkani (lassoes). This way of fighting was unfamiliar to the Byzantines and they describe it as “a devilish invention”. Of course, there are no preserved arkans today, but in drawings from Preslav and Pliska they’re depicted in battle and hunting scenes.
The helms and the armours are also characteristic for the battle armament. As it was pointed out before [in a previous chapter], we know about them from the inventory military lists. It can also be seen in the artistic monuments that the helms are conical, they often have feathers or other kind of decoration on the top. Two types of armours are mentioned in the lists: scale- and chain-armour. Perhaps this is imposed by the character of every single military detachment. Iron lamellae from such armours are found at Preslav, while several examples of bone lamellae show that these are parade and not battle armours.
Other elements of the military equipment – combat belt, like the one depicted on the Proto-Bulgarian soldier in the Menology of Emperor Basil II and metal parts from such belts are being found also at excavations. It can be seen in the drawings that the riders had high and soft boots (to protect the horse’s body) with knee-pads/boot-tops. A natural addition to the defensive equipment is the shield, which was used both by mounted and dismounted warriors. It was round, most often not very big, being held in the left hand, as it is seen on the pictures.
Various finds show the horse’s armament. These are metal parts from the straps of the harness, the belly-bands and those for the support of the saddles. Also reins and stirrups are being found. Very characteristic elements in the decoration of the battle horse are the tassels below the horse’s chops and on their head, depicted in many drawings in Pliska. A similar decoration is characteristic for a number of Eastern nations and tribes and is also represented in stone engravings in Central Asia and wall-paintings in Middle Asia (Pyangikent).
As they describe events from the VIII-IX c., the Byzantine chroniclers mention that Khan Krum went out against the empire with a 30 000 strong army, all covered in iron. Leo the Wise writes more definite on this matter in his “Tactics”: “Not only the men, but also the horses of the notables are covered with iron or felt”. A direct confirmation to this report is contained in one of the inventory lists from Preslav and also in a drawing on the fortress walls of this capital. It could be suggested that the not only the notables, but whole military detachments were entirely covered in iron armament. These are the so called “cataphracts” or in the Byzantine terminology “olosiders”. They are a special type of heavily armed horsemen, which, according to Chinese sources, were characteristic for the armament of the Turkic peoples. A direct confirmation for this report is a large number of depictions of heavily armed warriors from Northern Mongolia.
It should be presumed that during military actions, heavily armed troops, which are supposed to finish crushing the enemy, were being brought into the fight after the initial strikes of the infantry and the light cavalry. The effect from this way of fighting was very strong and brought many victories to the Bulgarian weapon. It is preserved in the military tactics even later, as we can see from the fights of Tsar Simeon in the notable battle at the Anchialus River in 917 or – considerably later – in the defeat of the Latins by Tsar Kaloyan in 1205. Direct illustrations of such fights are numerous battle scenes from the graffiti-drawings in Pliska and Preslav, where warriors are fighting with long spears, bows and arrows and arkans.
The co-existence of the two states of Bulgaria and Byzantium helped for the familiarizing with the tactics of warfare and used weapons in it. Thus Khan Krum undertakes in his numerous raids against the empire, learned by its experience, the construction of various war machines. They were designed to destroy the enemy’s fortress walls or to throw war-balls away. These “city-conquerors”, as they are described in one anonymous chronicle, were huge stone-, arrow- and fire-throwing devices, strong ladders for climbing up to the fortress walls, various levers, diggers, miners and other instruments for sapping the walls. The knowledge and the experience of the Byzantine specialists was used for their construction, as was the case with the Spatarius Evmatius, who went to the side of the Bulgarians after the conquering of Serdica in 809. At the same time during the siege of Messembria in 812 the Bulgarians managed to become familiar with the secrets of the Byzantine fire-throwing machines (siphons) and to capture 36 of them. It can be judged for the scale of the advancing actions, undertaken by the Bulgarian ruler, by the fact that 5 thousand carts, plated in iron, were prepared, hauled by 10 thousand well-fed oxen, which were supposed to bring the siege machinery to the walls of the Great city.
The military art – in theory and practice – was at great height among the Proto-Bulgarians. Thanks to this, the state withstood the strong pursuit for its destruction in the first centuries of its existence.

[catt]

Are any of you historians or history-students?

[Elvain]

I used to be :lol:

[People's Republic of China]

This is an AWESOME thread. I love it. Maybe I'll write something for it someday. . .

[Doux]

This is an AWESOME thread. I love it. Maybe I'll write something for it someday. . .Will you? I'm interested in China, for example. China knows a pretty unique history - a high civilisation around the end-Middle Ages, invention of gunpowder (this is what I hear mostly, at least), the Great Wall, then the compleaty different communists, in previous century, in comparison to the Dynasties of the farther past.

[People's Republic of China]

I shall very soon.

BTW: my knowledgebase includes: Russia, East Asia, modern history, All military history, France, British Isles, Germany, United States, Age of exploration, nautical, aviation, political history, and trains, few others I shan't mention.

I will write a few facts about China:

Before I begin, I will give a pronounciation guide for the Pinyin spelling I use:

Q=ch
z=dz
ZH=J
x=sh
c=ts

In Mandarin, we call China, Zhonggou, which means Middle kingdom (as in center of the earth)

The Great wall is in fact a series of walls built over thousands of years to combat the various northen invaders. Qin Shi-Huangdi built the first major Wall complex during the Qin dynasty (circa 400 BC).

China is much like Europe in that it has many diferent states, like the Zhou, Wei, Qin, Han, and so forth. Though China was unified earlier, (first by the Qin, then the Han, which followed the Qin, managed to create an empire which lasted for a lenghy period of time.).

At its peak (1421), China alone controlled half of the world's wealth and had a population of 60 million souls (at this time, Europe had 50 million).

China did indeed invent gunpower and the cannon as well as the handgun. though it was German and Hungarian gunsmiths that produced the first truly effective hand weapons.

Slightly larger than the United States, China has around 1.32 billion people.
And a military with aroun 1.8 million men and women in uniform.

Currency is the Yuan.

In the past 50 yrs. China has had histories most spectaculy growth rate for a large nation.

China invented paper, restaurents (the oldest recorded menu has chicken with orange on it), paper money, and many other things that we use frequently today.

A strong maritime tradition that is frequently forgotten today. See the thread on Zheng He discovering america for a possible reasult of Chinese fleets.

I will write something on the topic of the Qin dynasty in my next post. (condensed)

[Elvain]

Traveller, how is your translation work going? Do you work on some more translations?

[Traveller]

Right now there are no translations in progress. I'm either working or browsing the net and/or researching for medieval Bulgarian personal names.

[Mircoslavux]

some interesting news:
http://www.sme.sk/c/3203865/Pri-Vrabloch-objavili-osadu-zo-starsej-doby-bronzovej.html

in south Slovakia, near the city of Vrable, an interesting founding was recetly discovered. A team from Slovakian and German archeologists discovered an earth castle from a bronze period. Such foundings are very rare in Europe and unique in Carpatia region.

The first part of project (analyze of surface layers) will be finish till and of March.

[Traveller]

What do you mean by "earth castle"?

[Mircoslavux]

What do you mean by "earth castle"?


I do know not exactly...it was written as "zemny hrad" - so earth castle..
I will follow the story and when some news will be published; I will inform..

[gamerrici]

I like the greecs...............
they´ve got a mythic history:go: