[en] History

[Mircoslavux]

Amber trade road? Never heard of it (only the "silk road", but that's much different). Do you have more information?
...

short info about it.
The amber trady road was "terrain" trade road in ancient times. It connected
Aquileleia at Jadran sea. through Ljublana, Szombathely, Carnuntum, Devin, Pajstun (in Slovakia), Moriavian Gate, Wroclaw, Kalisz and Torun and it leads till east baltic delta of Visla River. The trade goods were goats, livestock, slaves, silver, cupper and amber (from this is the name).

In Slovakia: this road went through Male a Biele Karpaty (Small and White Carpathy, city of Cachtice and river Dudvah...

[Traveller]

Nope, sorry, I have no maps about this trade route!

Btw here are two more scanned pictures:

Khan Kubrat's Sword (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/KhanKubratssword-EN.jpg) - The (remains of the) sword of the man, who established "Old Great Bulgaria" in 632, found in his grave near Maloe Perescepino, Ukraine
Three rings of Khan Kubrat (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThethreeringsofKhanKubrat-EN.jpg)
The golden treasure (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/TheBulgartreasureofNagiSentMiklosh-.jpg) - The golden Bulgar treasure of Nagi Sent Miklosh
Some miniatures (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/Miniatures-EN.jpg)
And a golden medallion (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/GoldenMedallion-EN.jpg)

[Traveller]

And I continue with the scanned pics. This time it's even further back in time - in the Age of the Thracians:

First, we'll begin with some of the famous Thracian treasures (actually, that's in most of all the pictures)
Pic-1 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-1.jpg)
Pic-2 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-2.jpg)
Pic-3 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-3.jpg)
Pic-4 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-4.jpg)
Pic-5 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-5.jpg)
Pic-6 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-6.jpg)
Pic-7 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-7.jpg)
Pic-8 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-8.jpg)
Pic-9 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-9.jpg)
Pic-10 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-10.jpg)
Of course, these pictures are just a mere shadow of their real magnificence.
Anyway, here are some others, directly scanned from a book (so if you know Bulgarian, you could read some :wink: ). Some are of the same treasures, but not only. There are also some frescoes, tombs, sanctuaries etc. I hope you'll like them!
Pic-1 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-1.jpg)
Pic-2 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-2.jpg)
Pic-3 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-3.jpg)
Pic-4 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-4.jpg)
Pic-5 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-5.jpg)
Pic-6 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-6.jpg)
Pic-7 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-7.jpg)
Pic-8 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-8.jpg)
Pic-9 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-9.jpg)

If someone is interested, I could translate the text (or at least the pictures side-notes).

[Xuca]

those are some nice pictures :go:


Now, I have done this before, and was wrong. Heck, maybe I'm paranoid, but there is Nike in the url. I looked around(or spyed, if you like :rolleyes:) and found the AAR pictures...

[Traveller]

Hahaha, well, Nike is quite a popular mark here, in Bulgaria. :wink: :lol: :angel:
Btw you make a good spy! You're probably at least 4 stars! I hope you won't be infiltrating my Court... :wink:


Now, a couple more pages...
Pic-10 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-10.jpg)
Pic-11 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-11.jpg)
The cover of the book (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/BD-BTFE-0.jpg)
I've also scanned three pages of one old illustrated book:
An illustration of two simple Thracians (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/Illustrated-1.jpg)
A map with some of the Thracian tribes we know (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/Illustrated-2.jpg)
A map of "Old Great Bulgaria" (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/Illustrated-3.jpg)

[Xuca]

What's the name of the book? Bulgarians, the first Europians?

[Traveller]

Yes. You know (actually few people know), that the first region to be called Europa is in Bulgaria (the Strandzha region, I think) and its inhabitants were the first to be called Europes. Much later the whole continent was named so. Besides, the Proto-Thracians are the first European civilization...

[Xuca]

Interesting. :go:

[Heretic]

Me interested!
Very impressive treasures, I may say. Huh, some ideas to my own artworks..
I like that half-horse thing from Pic-8 of Thracian treasures. May Traveller translate that note about it?

[Traveller]

Why, of course, Milady!
Here it is... (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/ThracianTreasures-8EN.jpg)

Btw these treasures really are quite nice and this is just a small part of them! Too bad they spend such little time at home, they usually travel far and wide accross the world for years and stay at home for weeks. Or at least, that was till now. Right now they're in a Spanish museum (since a year and a half) and after that they're coming home for good and will go abroad only for short and with a smaller quantity (15-20 from the overall ~2500 objects). So, if anyone wants to see them "live", just call me! :wink:

P.S. I'm currently in the office and am scanning some more pictures (actually the whole book) from this "Children's illustrated history of Bulgaria". And I'll see if I could find some other pics of the treasures. To be continued...

[Mircoslavux]

Something for your: it is in Slovakian Newspaper - PRAVDA, course in Slovakian language - but you can understand - may be -
it is short notice about Bulgarian History:
http://cestovanie.pravda.sk/sk_csvetom.asp?r=sk_csvetom&c=A050923_151710_sk_csvetom_p22

:go:

[Traveller]

Oh, thanks, Mirco! :go: It was interesting, although some things were old information...

Btw here's (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/) one great site (but unfortunately almost useless for most of you, because it's on Bulgarian, or at least I haven't found English) with history of the Bulgarian lands. It's of the Bulgarian MFA (http://www.mfa.government.bg/index.php?newlang=eng) (Ministry of Foreign Affairs; every country's MFA usually posts a history of its country on its site) and it's considered to be better than the English and American ones (except maybe with the languages part). There's a really huge ammount of articles with pictures, translations of historical sources, chronological tables and maps. I can't translate all of the texts there, but I'll give links at least to the maps:
Prehistorical objects on the territory of present day Bulgaria (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/63.jpg) - there's a "legend" on the map itself
Ancient Bulgar lands (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/55.jpg) - The far eastern part is the ancient kingdom of Balkhara (or as Alexander's Greeks called it - Bactria), then to the west is a temporal (maybe) "homeland" on the eastern coast of the Caspian Sea, further west is Balkaria in the Caucasus region (this is somewhere around 354 AD), and then to the north you could see Volga Bulgaria (after the disintegration of "Old Great Bulgaria") and Danube Bulgaria to the west. I wonder only why didn't they placed the territory of Kubrat's "Old Great Bulgaria". It was a state formation, after all...
Slavs on the Balkans until the VII century (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/69.jpg) - I think someone was interested before in where the "Seven Slavic Tribes" were...
Bulgaria by Tsar Ioan Assen II (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/103.jpg), "loved not only by Bulgarians, but also by Romans, and other peoples"...
Haiduk movement XVI-XVII century (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/149.jpg) - this is in the time of the Turkish yoke. The "haiduti" (singular - haiduk) were Bulgarian insurgents, which travelled in relatively small groups (called "cheta" (чета) and therefore were sometimes called "chetnitzi") and attacked the Turkish oppressors, mainly through ambushes, but sometimes also with direct open fights. Most of the Bulgarian heroes in folk-songs and tales from the Ottoman time are exactly "voevoda" (leader) of such groups.
Bulgaria's borders, according to the San Stefano Treaty (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/189.jpg) - 1876, after the Russo-Turkish Liberation war. Unfortunately (for us), quite a short-lived success, because of the...
Berlin congress (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/191.jpg), where the great powers decided that such a big and independent country on the Balkans is not good for their plans, so they just split it to three: the Principality of Bulgaria, Eastern Rumelia (an autonomous vassal of the Ottomans) and the rest of the Bulgarian lands (mainly Macedonia and Thrace), which were given back to the Turks (and, of course, the local population paid for this...)
The Unification of Bulgaria with Eastern Rumelia (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/193.jpg) - 1885 (if they thought we would just stand like that...) and the Serbo-Bulgarian war after that, aka "The war of the generals against the captains". It was called like that, because until 1885 all of the high-ranking officers in the Bulgarian army were Russians and Russia didn't approve the Unification. And when Serbia attacked us, the Russians withdrew. The highest-ranking officer left was a Bulgarian captain at the age of 24, while the Serbs had a very well trained army and generals.
Bulgaria in WWI (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/201.jpg) - Macedonia became a fix-idea for us, pushed us in the two Balkan wars and as a result in WWI on the side of Germany.
Bulgaria in WWII (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/211.jpg) - the dissatisfaction with the "Unification question" led us into another World War, again on the losing side...
And two physical (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/21.jpg) and administrative (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/images/22.jpg) maps of present-day Bulgaria.
These are all the maps there. Personally I find the first ones the most interesting... :biggrin:

[Xuca]

Interesting maps :go:


one thing that not many people know is the uderground tunels and caves below Belgrade. there are remainings of querries, Roman sewers, natural caves and many more. they are unexplored because the Germans planned to blow up the city in the WWII before they retreat. There are many mines and explosives left, and nobody has the courage to explore them, and it would cost much the goverment the clearing out of the mines, so they are generally uninterested...

I tried to find some pictures, but no luck.

[Traveller]

Yeah, finally someone else interested to post something! Go ahead Xuca! If you can't find anything about the tunnels, I'm sure that Serbia has a lot of other things to offer... I want to read more about the others and I'm tired of be the only one to post! :cheers:

Btw I searched a bit for "Thracian treasures" in Google, as I promised, and I'll post the most interesting things I've found (and they're quite a lot):
First, here is a short list (http://www.motoroads.com/why_bul_treasures.html) of the main Thracian treasures with some explanations
Then a short article (http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=46368) about the treasures, currently exhibited in Spain
And another article (http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=31595) about the Rogozen treasure
An even shorter notice (http://www.travel-bulgaria.com/content/treasures.shtml) of all of them
Another one (http://www.archaeology.org/9807/abstracts/museum.html) with interesting info (and a nice resolution pic of the Panagyurishte gold treasure)
An article in the online version of the Greek newspaper "Ekathimerini" (http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/news/content.asp?aid=60097) about the recent discovery near Dabene, the one older than Troy's treasures (I've posted something about it, I think...)
And some more pictures, (http://www.kroraina.com/thracia/hb/index.html) divided in four groups. Btw one funny thing: on this picture (http://www.kroraina.com/thracia/hb/thracian_swords1.jpg) from the "Thracian arms" section you could see four swords. Look at the "mahajra", the third one from left to right - anybody noticed the Uruk-Hai swords in LotR? I guess PJ (Peter Jackson) showed some interest in the Thracians, too! :biggrin:
Now, something more about (http://bulgaria.domino.bg/panagyurishte/eng/12-04.htm) the Panagyurishte (http://www.geocities.com/panagurishte/landmarks/treasure.htm) golden treasure (http://www.goldensands.bg/cultural/treasure-panag.asp) - one of our best
Some more (http://www.geocities.com/panagurishte/photos/gold.htm) pictures
Here (http://www.peakview.bg/treasures/panag.htm) you could see some more and not only about the treasures
This site (http://terraeantiqvaefotos.zoomblog.com/archivo/2005/07/) is also worthy for visiting, with a lot of pictures, information etc. And it has much, much more things - it includes also pictures of Roman, Egyptian, Peruan discoveries; although most of them are on Spanish, except the Thracian, which is on English
Another thing with lots of information (http://archterra.cilea.it/exhibits/bg/tracian.htm) about the gold-crafting, which (honestly) I haven't read
Oh, some more (http://www.goldensands.bg/cultural/index.asp) with some things even I hadn't heard before (like the Kralevo treasure). Hmm, interesting...

Ok, I'm sure I can find more (and so could you, if you wish to search in Google enough), but I think these sites are more than enough for now! :wink:

[Traveller]

Obviously, we are the only nation on the world, which has some history, so I'll give some more links again* (and I really want some foreign history! Please, choose something interesting and post!):

Two interesting maps on French (http://antique.mrugala.net/Atlas%20antique%20(miror)/carto/hum.html) about density of the population and language groups in Europe
Some Bulgarian Coat-of-Arms (http://tribal.abv.bg/gerb/)
And an interesting site (http://kutriguri.com/) of an American group of people, concerning the ancient relations between Huns and Bulgars (and their way of fighting). It also includes nice historical materials, chronologies etc. (I can't guarantee for an 100% accuracy, though)



Now it really is your turn! :rolleyes:

* For those who haven't understood - irony and some sarcasm.

[Xuca]

Background

After the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in the Turkish-Austrian war of 1791, Serbs living under Turkey began to realise that an uprising against Turkey might be successful.

Seeing the growing displeasure, the Turkish sultan proclaimed fermans in 1793 and 1796 which gave more rights to Serbs. Among other things, taxes were now collected by local Serbian rulers (knezes), freedom of trade and religion was granted, and, most important of all, the Janissary had to leave Belgrade Pashaluk.

But on January 30, 1799, the Turkish court allowed the Janissary to return. They and their leaders, the dahias, showed little or no respect to any authority--even the central Turkish government. After they killed Belgrade vizier Hadzi-Mustafa in 1801, they started to rule Serbia on their own. Recently-granted rights were suspended, and dahias exerted unlimited rule over Belgrade Pashaluk. Taxes were drastically increased, land taken away, forced labour (citlucenje) introduced, and many citizens fled the Janissary in fear.
[edit]

The Uprising Begins

Serb leaders then began to conspire about starting an uprising against the dahias. When dahias found out about this, they captured and killed many of the Serbian leaders on February 4th, 1804. This event, known today as Seča knezova (beheading of knezes) incited the uprising. In retrospect, it is seen as a huge mistake by the Janissary: it angered the people and the leaders now had nothing to lose. On February 14th, 1804, in the small Šumadija village of Orašac, the Serbs gathered and decided to raise an uprising. Đorđe Petrović (Karadjordje) was elected as the leader of the uprising.

The uprising started immediately. That same afternoon, a Turkish khan (caravansarai) in Orašac was burned, and its residents fled or were killed. Similar actions were undertaken in surrounding villages and then spread even further. Soon the cities Valjevo and Požarevac were liberated, and the siege of Belgrade started.

When he was informed about the uprising, the Turkish Sultan started to negotiate with the rebels. Dahias escaped from Belgrade, but they were captured and killed on the island of Ada Kale in the Danube. Eventually the negotiations failed, and the Sultan organised a military campaign against the uprising.

The first major battle of the uprising was the Battle of Ivankovac in 1805, where Karadjordje defeated the Turkish army and forced it to retreat toward Niš. The second major battle of the uprising was Battle of Misar in 1806. There, rebels faced an army sent from Bosnia, led by Kulin Captain; they were again victorious. At the same time, another army was sent from the southeast. This army was faced in the battle of Deligrad by the rebels who, led by Petar Dobrnjac, were successful again. In December of the same year, the rebels besieged Belgrade, which was finally liberated in the beginning of 1807.
[edit]

The Outcome

Even while the combat continued, there was a visible need for governing Serbia and in 1805, a basic government was organised. The rule was divided between Narodna Skupstina (People's assembly), Praviteljstvujusci Sovjet (Ruling Council) and Karadjordje himself. Land was given back, there was no more forced labour, and taxes were reduced. The young state was modernised and already in 1808, the first high school was opened in Belgrade.


Some of the leaders of the uprising later abused their privileges for personal gain, even to the point that forced labour was reintroduced at some places. Also, there was dissent between Karadjordje and other leaders; Karadjordje wanted absolute power, while his vojvodas wanted to limit it. After its war with Russia was over, Turkey exploited these circumstances and reconquered Serbia in 1813.

Though ultimately unsuccessful, this first Serbian Uprising paved the way for the Second Serbian Uprising of 1815, which eventually succeeded in liberating Serbia.


I just copied and pasted it from wikipedia. :biggrin:

[Traveller]

Finally! Now give me more (although I've studied it last year)! And maybe I'll copy something about the April insurrection... later... :rolleyes:

[Xuca]

I'll try to make a short chronology of Serbian history, and then somebody(most probably Traveller, since nobody else reads this thread) pick something, and I'll post something about it.

1. The migration of the Slavs to the Balkans
2. First Serbian states, wars with Bulgaria and Byzantia
3. Stefan Nemanja, the Nemanjic house; St. Sava
4. Tsar Stefan Urosh IV Dushan the Mighty Nemanjic; Serbian Tsardom
5. Tsar Stefan Urosh V the Weak, King Vukashin - the end of Serbian Tsardom
6. Knez Lazar, Vuk Brankovic; the battle of Kosovo
7. Despot Stefan Lazarevic, Despot Djuradj Brankovic - the end of medieval Serbia
8. Reign of Turks; Hajduks and Uskoks
9. Austro - Turkish wars
10.First Serbian Uprising
11.Hadzi-Prodan's rebellion
12.Second Serbian Uprising
13.Vuk Karadzic - Reform of the Serbian lanague
14.Serbian Principality
15.Independance wars
16.Knez/King Milan, King Aleksandar - the end of the Obrenovics
17.Balkan wars
18.First World War
19.Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians(Yugoslavia); assasination of King Aleksandar
20.Second World War; Chetniks and Partizans
21.Sotialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia; Josip Broz Tito
22.The collapse of Yugoslavia
23.Slobodan Milosevic - NATO bombing; end of Milosevic's reign
24.Assassination of Zoran Djindjic; operation "Sabre"; Milorad Ulemek (Miodrag Lukovic) Legija
25.End of Yugoslavia - Serbia and Montenegro

[Traveller]

Yes, I guess only people from the Balkans are interested in history... :scratch: So, if I have to choose (if someone else wants to - be my guest, I give you my turn) I'll choose subjects 2 or 15 as a beginning. I want to see the different POVs than our own... :wink:

[Xuca]

you said 2 OR 15, right, so you want ONLY 2 or ONLY 15, and not 2 TO 15? Or, 2 as a start, and if nobody want to write anything, 2 to 15?

2. First Serbian states

a) Rashka

Acording to Konstantin VII Profirogenit, at the end of VIII and start of IX century, Serbia had teritories around rivers Piva, Tara, Lim, Ibar, upper part of Drina and West Morava, area called Soli, which is around todays Tuzla and Bosnia. Other Serbian tribes lived in Zahumle(Between Dubrovnik and Neretva), Travunija(Dubrovnik - Boka Kotorska), and Paganija (Neretva - Cetina, with islands Korchula, Mljet, Brach and Hvar)

The center of the state was the city of Ras, and therefore, the country was called Rashka. Serbian Knezs ruled over it in Byzantian name. First Knez's name is unknown, and his descendants were Visheslav, Radoslav and Prosigoj. Exept the names, othing is known about them. For that reason, the founder of dynasty is considered to be Knez Vlastimir. He defended Serbia against Bulgarian Khan Presijam, and added Travunija to Serbia.

Again Bulgaria tried to conquer Serbia during Knez Boris, but Vlastimir's sons, Mutimir, Strojimir and Gojnik, repelled the attack and captured Boris' son and 12 Boljars. After the victory, the brothers came to a fight, and Mutimir exiled his two brothers, and became the only ruler.

After his death, Gojnik's son became the ruler, Petar Gojnikovic(892-917). He successfully ruled, and successfully cept the land, in the times when Bulgaria became a Tsardom. Using intrigues, Knez of Zahumlje, Mihailo Vishevic made Bulgarians replace Petar.

New Knezs which were put by the Bulgarians weren't loyal to them, so Bulgarians plundered Serbia, and it became a full part of Bulgaria.

Knez Chaslav Klonimirovic(927 - around 950) used the death of Simeon to come to power, and with the help of Byzantia became independant. Hungarians attacked Serbia from the north, but Chaslav defeated them, and killed their ruler. In a new attack, Hungarians captured him and executed him on the river Sava.

After that, Serba became a part of Byzantia, and near the end of the X century, became a part of Samuilo's Tsardom. In 1018. Serbia bacame a part of Byzantia again, and they used Serbian nobles as governors of Serbian lands. They had title of Grand Zhupan, and only few names are known: Vukan (around 1083 - around 1114), Urosh I, Urosh II, Desa and Tihomir.

b)Duklja (Zeta)

In the second half of the X century, Jovan Vladimir ruled Duklja as Byzantian governor. He was captured by Samuilo around 998. because he was on the Byzantian side. Samuilo married him with his daughter, and put him in Duklja as his vassal. He was executed after Samuilo's death by Jovan Vladislav.

Byzantia came to rule again, when in 1036. Stefan Vojislav Raised a rebellion. His son, Mihailo, joined Rashka, and was crowned King in 1077. by the Pope Grgur VII(I don't know his name in English, perhaps Gregory?)

He sent his son Bodin to help the rebellion of Djordje Vojteh with 300 wariors. They liberated the territory from Nish to Ohrid, and declared him Tzar. However, Byzantines captured him, and crushed the rebellion. Byzantines conquered Rashka.

I don't have any sources of how he escaped, but he became the next King of Duklja. He married a Norman princess, reconquered Rashka, and joined Bosnia. After Bodin's death, Duklja collapsed, and Rashka became the strongest Serbian state.


My bad English is revealed now. At least it's understandable(I think... :scratch: )