[en] History

[Traveller]

Oh, your English is very good, I'd say. I have a competitor in translations! :wink:
But about 2 or 15, I meant that for the beginning I'd like both of them, but you'll probably be too tired to write both at once, so you could choose which one to start with - 2 or 15. Now I'd like some about the Balkan wars (and later I'll probably add some more with the total numbers of soldiers from every country and so on).
Btw did you wrote that by yourself, translated it from a book or copied it from the wiki?

[Xuca]

Ooops. I made a mistake. List goes ...15, 16, 15, 16, 17... :embarras: I'll fix it right away. So, if you wanted the Balkan wars, it's 17, and not 15, as I written :rolleyes:

And I translated parts of two books, my 6th and 1st grade history textbooks(6th grade is lower than 1st grade, I'm now 1st grade, and was 6th five years ago).

17.Balkan Wars

I sold my 8th grade textbook, so i'll have to do this from my head.

The cause is known, Balkan states united against the Ottomans, to banish them from their lands and free their bretheren. Turkey was overrun, Montenegrin armies captured Huge part of Albania and together with Serbia Old Serbia(Sandzak, Kosovo). Bulgarians, with a little help of Serbia, most of Macedonia and Thrace. The war ended, territory was split, but Bulgarians had to give away some teritory. Albania was formed, and Montenegro was forced to give away Skadar(capital of King Vukashin, ask for 5.) and somehow they kept Lovcen(which is in north!) despite the great preassures.

Austria - Hungary hated to see Serbia grow more powerfull, and Bulgarians weren't satisfyed with their share of spoils. Austria - Hungary used that, and talked Bulgaria into attacking Serbia. Montenegro, Greece, Turkey and Romania declared war to Bulgaria, and Bulgaria had to surrender, giving away teritoties.


I don't know how accurate is this, since I did this using my memory, and I would like to hear the Bulgarian version.

[Traveller]

Ahh, the Bulgarian version... Well, since you're a Serbian, I'll translate something only about the First Balkan War (just so that there won't be any "hard feelings" here):




Balkan War

The Balkan War is led between the Balkan alliance (Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece and Montenegro) and the Ottoman Empire during 1912-1913. One of the goal of the Balkan alliance is the liberation of the population in the regions of Macedonia, Edirne's Thrace and Northern Albania, which was left in the boundaries of Turkey. The Ottoman Empire loses the war and according to the London peace treaty (1913) is forced to surrender its territories to the west of the line Media (Black Sea) - Enos (Aegean Sea).

Name
The Balkan War is a part of the Balkan Wars. The other Balkan War is the Inter-Allied War, and in this sense the Balkan War from 1912-1913 is also named as First Balkan War.

Causes
After the Russian-Turkish war from 1877-78 in the Ottoman Empire are left territories, populated with Bulgarians, Greeks, Serbs and Albanians. Since the national-liberation fights did not gave the desired result, the governments of Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece oriented themselves towards another approach – war with Turkey.

In addition Bulgaria pursued an outlet on the Aegean Sea and the liberation of Macedonia and Edirne Thrace, while Serbia – an outlet on the Adriatic Sea, towards Vardar Macedonia and parts of Albania. Greece also wanted parts of Albania, numerous islands in the Aegean Sea and parts of South Macedonia. And Montenegro had claims for expansion in Shkodra.

Turkey, of course, did not agree with all these claims. On its side it had Austria-Hungary and Germany, which were against Turkey losing its Balkan territories, and thus they protected their interests.

Russia was on the side of the Balkan alliance, while Great Britain and France remained neutral.

After Italy and Turkey had entered into a military conflict in September 1911, the governments of the states from the Balkan alliance increased their military-technical and diplomatic preparations. The great powers did not look with a good eye on these preparations, as a great war was soon expected to start and they didn’t want to heat up the situation on the Balkans additionally.

Reason and beginning of the war
After the mass slaughter of the population of Shtip in November 1911 and of Kochani on 25th of June 1912, the governments of Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece and Montenegro demanded from Turkey to make administrative reforms in its Balkan territories and to give Macedonia and Edirne Thrace autonomy. The response was categorically negative and on the 17th of Spetember 1912 the countries from the Balkan alliance started mobilizing their armies.

On the 26th of September 1912 Montenegro attacked North Albania, which was at that time a part of the Ottoman Empire. The Empire broke all diplomatic relations with the Balkan alliance states and on the 4th of October declared war on them, while on the 5th of October Bulgaria and Greece declared war back. Serbia declared war on Turkey on the 7th of October.

Army and guns
The countries from the Balkan alliance had at disposal an army of 902 422 men and 1800 cannons. Turkey had 420 000 men and 930 cannons.

Bulgaria
Bulgaria gave 607 422 men (of which 370 000 took part into direct battle actions) and 1116 cannons.

The Bulgarian forces consist of First, Second and Third Bulgarian Army, led respectively by Vasil Kutinchev, Nikola Ivanov and Radko Dimitriev. 10 divisions are included in them:

1st infantry Sofian,
2nd infantry Thracian,
3rd infantry Balkan,
4th infantry Preslavian,
5th infantry Danubian,
6th infantry Bdinian,
7th infantry Rilan,
8th infantry Tundzhan,
9th infantry Pleven,
10th infantry mixed
The Macedonian-Edirne volunteer corps were joined to them, as well as one horse division. By a preliminary made plan First Army should act in the valley of river Tundzha, Second – of river Maritza, while Third is reserve of First by heading towards Lozengrad.

Serbia
Serbia mobilized 291 000 men, of which 175-190 000 men were sent to the front. 300 Serbian cannons were also sent.

Greece
Greece mobilized 175 000 men, of which 90-120 000 men took part in direct battle actions. 244 Greek cannons were also sent.

Montenegro
Montenegro joins with a 30 000 strong army.

Criticism for the Bulgarian diplomacy
The Bulgarian diplomacy did not succeed to ensure a common military command of the Balkan alliance armies and a common military plan, since every state chases its own interests. From this the main burden fell over Bulgaria, whose army comes up to 370 000 men – more than half of the whole army of the Balkan alliance countries.
According to the Bulgarian-Serbian agreement, signed on the 29th of February 1912, Macedonia is divided between Bulgaria and Serbia by zones of influence.
Romania is not politically neutralized and so on.
Bulgaria understood its weaknesses later, during the Inter-Allied War, which follows the Balkan War.


Progress of the war

Bulgaria
The Bulgarian army leads battle actions against the central Turkish forces in Edirne Thrace.
On the 16th-20th of October Third Bulgarian Army, commanded by Radko Dimitriev, conquers Luleburgaz and Bunarhissar. After that it advances towards Chataldja (on 40 km. from Istanbul).

The Rhodopa detachment, commanded by Stilian Kovachev, crushes the forces of Iaver Pasha. The Haskovo detachment liberates a part of the Rhodope Mountains. On the 5th or 8th of October it liberates Kardzhali and on the 8th of November – Darudere (present day Zlatograd).

7th infantry Rilan division advances along the valley of the river Struma and together with the Serbian army liberates Macedonia. On the 5th of October it advances towards Kochani, Tsarsko Selo (present day Delchevo) and Gorna Dzhumaia (present day Blagoevgrad). It succeeds in repelling the Turkish forces to the south of the Kresna and Rupel gorges. On the 27th of October 1912 it reaches Solun.

Naval and air-forces of Bulgaria
Although the Bulgarian navy was less than half percent of the Bulgarian army in 1912, the army’s sailors actively took part in battles by land and sea. The first mine-artillery position in the history of Bulgaria was created in the Varna Gulf.

On the 11th of October the Turkish cruiser “Medzhidie” and one counter-miner approach to 9700 m from Varna, but after a short single exchange of fire between the Bulgarian and the Turkish forces, the latter leave.

On the 7th of November news come that two Egyptian ships, loaded with arms for the Turkish army, have left Kiustendzha (present day Konstanca in Romania) towards Istanbul. In the early hours of November 8th 1912 the Bulgarian minelayers “Drazki”, “Smeli”, “Letiashti” and “Strogi” enter a direct fight with the armoured cruiser “Hamidie”. The battle is fought to the north-east of Varna, “Drazki”, commanded by commander lieutenant junior grade Georgi Kupov, torpedoed “Hamidie”. The naval blockade of the Bulgarian Black Sea coast was lifted and thus the danger of attacks against the Bulgarian flanks in Edirne Thrace was removed.

For the first time in world history airplanes were used in battle. Except that they have scouting function. The first military use of the airplanes was in 1911 during the Turkish-Italian war, but at that time the Italian army used aviation only for scouting, whereas during the Balkan War the Bulgarian army for the first time used airplanes for bombardment with hand grenades over Turkish positions.
(Tr. note: a picture (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/NikeBG/Vladeteli%20na%20Bulgaria%20-%201997/Page53.jpg))


Serbia
The Serbian army crushed the Turkish forces in Kumanovo and Bitolsko and repeled them out of Vardar Macedonia.

Greece
After leading successful fight at Elasona and at the Sarandoporo pass, the Greek army pushed the Turkish forces to the east. It entered Solun on the 26th of October. It also besieged Ianina.

Montenegro
The successes of Montenegro consist of the repelling of the Turks from the Novi Pazar sandzhak and the besieging of Shkodra.

Temporary truce and continuing the war
On the 3rd of November Turkey addresses the Great powers with a request that they would help for stopping the battle actions. Negotiations start in London, but a coup was made in Turkey by the “young Turks” on the 10th of January 1913 and the battles continued.

Turkey attacked the Bulgarian positions near Chataldzha in the Chataldzha operation, but suffers a failure. They did not succeed also in the battles at Bulair and in the landing at Sharkioi. And the allies took the key fortresses of Ianina and Shkodra.

The Edirne operation was made, in which Second Bulgarian Army, together with Serbian military squads, besieges for 6 months Edirne. On the 13th of March 1913, after storming the eastern sector, the fortress fell.
Tr. note: Let me enhance a bit, if I remember right: At that time the Edirne fortress was thought to be completely invincible. Just a few years before German architects had made it the most modern stronghold. Anyway, it obviously was just as invincible as Titanic was. But here’s a funny story: Just before the final heroic assault the Turks heard the officers shouting some orders in the Bulgarian trenches. The orders were something like “Napred, na nozh”, which means “Charge, (prepare) the knives/bayonets”. But one Turkish soldier, who knew some Bulgarian, translated it as “Po pet na nozh”, which means “Five on a knive”, which further ruined their morale as they thought the Bulgarians wanted at least five dead Turks on every bayonet.

Peace
The London peace treaty was signed on the 17th of May 1913. With it Turkey surrenders to the allies the lands to the west of the line Media (on the Black Sea) – Enos (on the Aegean Sea), as well its Aegean islands. Albania is recognized as an independent state.

Casualties
Bulgaria
The Bulgarian casualties count up to 35 000 officers and soldiers.

Consequences
At the signing of the London peace treaty, the territorial argues between the allies were not debated upon. But Serbia and Greece made a secret agreement two days later, aimed against Bulgaria. Montenegro joins them. The tension between the countries of the Balkan alliance leads to the eruption of the Inter-Allied War.

The Balkan War had also positive sides. The national question on the Balkans in some degree gets decided. The Ottoman half-feudal medieval structures are destroyed. The ways for entering modern industrial relations are opened.





The attack of the minelayer “Drazki” against the Turkish cruiser “Hamidie” during the Balkan War

http://img196.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druzkischeme4lt.gif

After the defeat at Edirne and the considerable material losses the Turkish army suffered a great need of new technics, ammunition and supplies. The help, which Austria-Hungary and Germany sent, were reaching the Romanian port of Kiustendzha. From there the valuable cargos were supposed to be transported to Istanbul and the only way for this was by sea. For this purpose Egyptian cargo steamers were being hired, guarded by battle ships. In the same time the danger of Turkish bombardments and landings on the Bulgarian beaches was real – the blockade actions began in the beginning of the war. It went to there that on the 15th of October 1912 the commander of the cruiser “Hamidie” Hussein Rauf Bey asked Varna and Balchik to surrender or else be destroyed. Fortunately this didn’t happen. Due to the low range of the coast artillery and the imperfect technics, it was set in the mobilization plan that the “watching” service in the Varna Gulf and the coastline, from Shabla to Emine, to be led by the team of six torpedo boats.



On the 7th of November a report was received in the navy headquarters that two Egyptian ships are leaving from Kiustendzha towards Istanbul. The coast posts confirmed the movement of Turkish military vessels near Kaliakra and an order was immediately sent that the torpedo boats get out and capture or sink the enemy ships. It was additionally directed not to wait for other instructions, but to act according to the circumstances. In 22:30 the team, consisting of the flagship “Letiashti”, “Smeli”, “Strogi” and “Drazki”, left through the northern passage of the mine blockade and at full light-camouflage headed to intercept the course of the convoy. Leader of the team was commander Dimitar Dobrev. Half an hour after midnight 32 miles from Varna, to the right of the course, a silhouette of a large ship was spotted. Gradually it was reported that it’s one of the cruisers “Hamidie” or “Medzhidie”. In 00:40 a signal for an attack was given from the flagship and five minutes late from a distance of 500-600 meters “Letiashti” gave the first torpedo shot.

In this moment a ferocious artillery fire started from “Hamidie”. From a closer distance the attack was led by “Smeli” and “Strogi”, as “Smeli” received a hit on its board from a 155-mm shell, fallen nearby. Its helm mechanism was damaged and the ship began to spin round, disappearing from the sight of the following “Strogi”. This created a very dangerous situation, as the Turkish counter-miners, which came to help, also started a strong fire at the Bulgarian ships. So under the enemy fire for a half an hour the sailors repaired the damage, moved to manual control and headed to the assembly point after the attack.


Last from the team, a torpedo was sent from “Drazki”, commanded by lieutenant junior grade Georgi Kupov. The shot was given from the bold (Tr. note: “Drazki” comes from “darzak” (дързък), which means “bold”) distance of 50-60 meters and was the only one successful. A few seconds after it a strong blast exploded and a high water column was raised above “Hamidie”. The cruiser was hit in the head part, received a hole of around 10 square meters and only the calm sea saved it from sinking. There were 8 killed and 30 injured. During the attack “Drazki” received only one hit in its funnel. After a short artillery duel he also headed to the assembly point. In the morning he returned to Varna. The sailors gave only one injured in the battle – a non-commissioned officer (NCO)-gunner from “Smeli”.

This naval victory of the Bulgarian fleet over a superior enemy stroke a serious moral and material harm to the Turkish fleet. Heavily damaged and half-sunk “Hamidie” was dragged to Istanbul. This happened with the stern on, as the head parts were filled with water, which covered the forecastle of the ship.


***


On the 15th of October 1942 due to irregular storage of gunpowder on board of “Drazki” an explosion happened and the torpedo carrier sank on the Varna pier. Repaired soon it enters again the structure of the MNF. In 1950 it’s rejected and disarmed, after which it was kept as a sailing target. After several years, in connection with the approaching 45th anniversary from the torpedoing of “Hamidie” the idea of it becoming a museum was born. But at that time “Drazki” was useful only as scrap – its remains are loaded for melting in the region of the Gorna Oriahovitza station. Only its funnel, one cannon and some smaller attributes were returned and mounted on the torpedo boat of the same type “Strogi”. On the 21st of November 1957 the leading MNF rear admiral Branimir Ormanov officially opened the ship-museum “Drazki” in the region of the Military-naval museum in Varna. In the opening also anticipated the “reserved” (retired) captain Georgi Kupov, commander of the “Drazki” at that night.





Translated from here... (http://forum.hanovete.com/index.php?showtopic=1792)

[Xuca]

There won't be any hard feelings from me. You can't prove secret agreement between Serbia and Greece, I can't prove secret negotiations between Austria - Hungary and Bulgaria. I posted something about three versions of WWII here(scroll a little), (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=5174) so even if you have a completely different story, it won't surprise me.


btw. I know an interesting even during WWI, concerning Serbian and Bulgarian soldiers, and if you want, I can post something about it. I don't know if it was real, and I don't have the book in which I read it, so it might sound same way like the Balkan Wars :rolleyes:

[Traveller]

Go on, post it as you like!
But I prefer not to "expand" on the Inter-Allied War subject, because there are some other things, which aren't secret at all. And I'm sure you won't like them! At least I wouldn't if I were you...

[Xuca]

The whole agreement was screwed with the creation of Albania, and made angry our leaders, so they seeked teritory elsewhere, but I think it is better not to talk about that, unless we want to fight...


It's the Solun front, WWI. Easter, can't remember which year it was. Serbian and Bulgarian infrantry were in the trenches. One was bored, or something like that, and shouted to the Bulgarians:"Hay, what you're doing?"
and one Bulgarian say:"Nothing"
"I'm hungry and I don't have anything to eat"
"I have a piece of bread, if you'd like"
"OK, toss it over"
the Bulgarian tosses the bread, but it falls right in the middle of the trenches.
"Hey, bring it to me"
"I'm afraid that you'll shoot me! You get out and take it!"
"No, I'm afraid that you'll shoot me!"
"Let us get out together!"
"OK"
So they get out of the trenches and meet at the piece of bread. They shake hands, kiss each other and wish happy Easter. Other soldiers see what they are doing, so they all leave their trenches, and start kissing each othert and wishing happy Easter.
The artilery looked all of that from the hills and they decided that such a behaviour is inapropriate, so they fired in the middle of them(not sure whose artilery, probably from both sides). As a punishment, the infrantry was bombed with artilery fire until the night.

[Traveller]

Haha, I watched something similar on one of the historical channels, about the English and the Germans in WWI at Christmas. They were from years in the trenches and no one moved forward, so the soldiers got tired of it and on Christmas eve decided that both sides get in peace for awhile. They played cards together, drank together, ate together etc. The commanders, of course, didn't really like it, but who cares! But after New Year the war continued... I may be missing or changing some things, but generally that's the story. Quite similar to ours - one day they fight, next day they sing...

[Traveller]

Btw here's another translation from here (http://www.mfa.government.bg/history_of_Bulgaria/104.html):

“ … In the same time, in the beginning of this winter [429-428 BC], the Thracian king, the Odryssian Sitalkus, son of Teres, set out on a campaign against Perdikas, the son of Alexander, king of Macedon, and against the Chalkideans on the coast of Thrace… When he set out from his Odryssian land, he called for arms at first those Thracians, who lived between the Haemus (Note: the Balkan Mountains) and the Rhodope Mountains, over which he ruled all the way to the sea…; then the Getae beyond the Haemus and the other tribes, which lived from this side of the river Istros (Note: Danube) near Pontus Euxinus (Note: Black Sea). The Getae and the other tribes from this region are neighbours of the Scythians and are armed like them: all are horse archers. He also called many from the mountainous independent Thracians, which are sword-bearers and call themselves Dii: most of them live in the Rhodopes. Some of them he drew by promising them rewards, while others followed him willingly… Near the sea the Odryssian kingdom stretches from the city of Abdera to Pontus Euxinus and up all the way to the mouth of the river Istros. This coastline could be sailed around with a ship on the fastest way for four days and four nights, if the wind always blows favourably; but by land the straightest way from Abdera to Istros can be covered by a good walker for eleven days. This is the space of the kingdom from the sea. Inside the land the distance from Byzantion to the Leeans and to Strimon (Note: river Struma) (where it’s the point farthest from the sea) could be taken by a good walker for thirteen days. The tributes from all the barbaric peoples and from the Greek cities, over which the Odryssians ruled in the time of Seutus (who reigned after Sitalkus and increased the tributes the most), reached four hundred talents [around ten tons] in money and was paid in gold or in silver. Not less gold and silver was being offered in the form of gifts, without counting the colored and the simple clothes and other things… From the states in Europe, which are between the Ionian Gulf and Pontus Euxinus, this kingdom was the greatest by the size of its income and its other riches… And so Sitalkus, ruler of such a big country, gathered his army and when the preparations were ready, he set out with it towards Macedon… his whole army numbered up to no less than one hundred and fifty thousand men. The bigger part of it was infantry, while approximately one third was cavalry. The bigger part of the cavalry was delivered by the Odryssians themselves and after them the Getae. From the infantry the most warlike were the independent sword-bearers, which came down from the Rhodopes...”
Tucidid


Wow! Can you imagine that? Tributes of TEN TONS of gold and silver! That's what I call a rich guy! And an army of 150 000 men (100 000 infantry and 50 000 cavalry)... It's hard for me to imagine that! And that's in the times of the Thracians, when the world was still young and agriculture couldn't support such large quantities of men like now (f.e. as far as I remember, when we fell to the Turks (end of the XIV century) we were approximately 2 million people, pretty same situation with the English and the French)...

[Xuca]

I wouldn't mind having ten tons of gold. :king: But the problem is that I'm probably the only one that read it. I came up with an evil masterplan to make the people read the thread. Are you with me?

[Traveller]

An evil masterplan to make people do something they don't want to? Of course I'm in! :dwink:
Now, really! The more, the better. The more people posting, the better the discussion, that is...

[Xuca]

Well, posting, hardly, but atleast reading. You do so hard on translating and scanning, and only I read it, and vice verca.

We use the Quiz thread, and post very hard questions, and say tip:History thread. After a few questions, they'll see how fun it is and maybe even join us!

[Xuca]

Guess you didn't like the plan. :sad:

[Traveller]

No, plan's good, but I hadn't entered since then (server upgrades and such)... Go ahead, you evil genius! :wink:

[Mircoslavux]

hi guys,
I'm reading these posts too, ...
but I'm making some "noises" on the web www.hrady.sk - slovakian fan web for castles and historical buildings, and some topics about "heraldy", artistocracy and so on...

I'm collecting now some historical info about the castles in my previous environment - so e.g. Partizanske (Simonovany) there is water castle from 14. century, Velke Uherce - nice castle in renovation, Klatova Nova Ves- Baroque castle and renaissance bastion, Brodzany - castle with nice park - now Puskin's museum, church with the tumb of far swedish royal family, and sommer castle,

and so on, and of course collecting data for my next historical Novel about the Lord of Tatra Mountains and river Vah - Matheus Czak de Trincinio III,

[Traveller]

Nice, nice... So I'll expand that only Slavs are interested in history here.
Btw could you explain what that "water castle" in Partizanske is?

P.S. I think I've found one reason why few people read and post here: Maybe because I'm writing too much (or only) about my own history of "some poor backward East-European (or even worse - Balkan) country". So if you people prefer something else, maybe I'll translate some things for others (Crusaders maybe?), taken from the forum I've given a link to somewhere above (in the Balkan War text).

[Mircoslavux]

yes, you are very right,
many people from west europe have no many interests in middle and east europe countries and they are lack of correct information.
e.g. my boss (she is prof.) firtsly thought, that I'm coming from Czech rep., ok, then I discovered that she believes still Czechoslovakia exists (it was in 2001, Czech - Slovak divorce in 1993),

I think, geografical knowhow is connected very tied with historical,

If man does not know were is Bulgaria, why he should have interest in her history and vice-versa...

during the cold war, in my opinion, was geografical middle point of europe shift in Germany or Switzerland and everything else was East-block, what is something very ridiculous (according the opinion's of "West European).

But Middle Europe is Czech, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary, and so on.
The europe does not end in German or Austrian boarder, but in Ural.
:angry:

[Xuca]

I know what you mean. people know where we are, but they have a very wrong opinion about us. I imagine that every American or west Europian thinks that we are a bunch of blood thursty evil savages. We were always caracterised as the bad guys, and war criminals, and all of that because we were the last communist country in Europe (although not officially). And they certanly aren't interested in our history.

[Mircoslavux]

Nice, nice... So I'll expand that only Slavs are interested in history here.
Btw could you explain what that "water castle" in Partizanske is?

.

Water castle is surrouded by water ditch, very common castles in 14.-15. century, but of course that one was more time rebuilt and renovated so it lost its defand's character. :go:

[Xuca]

23 points left. Anybody wants to pick, or Traveller wants to write something more interesting (he mentioned crusades, so probably that)

[Traveller]

Well, it doesn't hurt that we both write (and if someone else isn't that lazy - please, come in), so if I should choose - let's start with the beginning (1. The migration of the Slavs to the Balkans). And in the meantime maybe I'll translate something about the Teutonic order...