[en] History

[Traveller]

I think I have, but it was a few years ago. And usually movies aren't a very good historical source. We have one very good old movie "681 - Glory of the Khan", but it's historically very inaccurate, influenced by the Communist propaganda. Otherwise, it's a very nice movie with great battles (around 60 000 men; no computer effects, all real actors, including my father as a Byzantine soldier). Btw I have it on a disc on English with Bulgarian subtitles... :wink:

Oh, and just to make clear - Attila may be the head in the "List of the Bulgarian khans", but that doesn't mean he really was a Bulgarian. He's from the two legendary rulers there, but he's a Hun and it's not clear if Huns and Bulgarian have any kinship.
Tomorrow, maybe, I'll translate the next chapter. I find it more interesting than this one.

Oh, and thanks for the compliments! :cheers:

[Mircoslavux]

In Slovakia - is now movie about National Hero Juraj Janosik
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juraj_J%C3%A1no%C5%A1%C3%ADk
but he was real figure and not fiction like Robin Hood or Tell.

but there are financy missing, becasue the doing of movie is already 6. years

[Traveller]

Grrrr... I had started to translate some opinions of foreign chroniclers and historians about us and suddenly my computer restarted. Of course, everything's lost and I'll have to start it all over again! :angry: No. Tomorrow, and maybe the second part of the "origin"...

Oh, and I encourage (beg, if I have to) write, translate, paste or whatever you like about something concerned with history, not even necessary your country's history. It's a little stupid only I to write about Bulgaria and the others just stand and watch, don't you think? And I'm not intending to stop translating yet, so you better start doing something! Mircoslavux already does!

[Mircoslavux]

What have I done??? :go:

[Traveller]

Well, you posted some links! :go:

Now here are the quotes I promised. Before that, to make clear that I only translate them. I don't agree with absolutely everything, although I do agree with some.

From „Anonymous Latin Chronographer" 354 AD.
From the first son of Noah – Sim, 25 nations came. They live in the east. The names of Sim’s sons are:
Elam, from who are the Elamites;
Assyr, from who are the Assyrians;
Arfaxad, from who are the Chaldeans;
Lukh, from who are the Lazi;
Haram, from who are the Igurians or the Ethes;
Lebul, from who are the Lydians;
Gatsera, from who are the Gasfens;
Halmodat, from who are the Indiis;
Sala, from who are the Bactrians;
Aram, from who are the Arabs;
Iduram, from who are the Gamerians;
Oderma, from who are the Mardians;
Lezel, from who are the Parthians;
Desmem, from who are the Gedrusians;
Assal, from who are the Hyskians.
Assal gave birth to Melkhi, who had two sons – Melkhi and Melkhisedek.
Avimelekh, from who are the Hirkans;
Sabebi, from who are the Arans;
Memsvir, from who are the Armens or the Amens;
Evilat, from who are the Gimnosofists;
Ziezi, from who are the Bulgarians.

“Persians and Magi (влъхви) and Bulgarians are one thing. They are all strangers on this land.”
Medieval chronicle

“The Bulgarians and the Pugurs, their inhabitants, were Christians in some time; and when one foreign nation achieved dominion (ruled) over that land they were called Khazars in the name of the older brother, whose name was Khazarig. And this nation became strong and expanded.”
Patriarch Mikhail Syrian, 1126 AD

"Two nations collided, to which retreat has never been helpful in battle. Both the Goths and the Bulgarians are surprised that people like them could be found and that among the mankind they could find an adversary equal to themselves… They, the Bulgarians, which never doubted in their victory and from which the world was astonished…! This is the nation that before you had everything it wanted – a nation, which acquired titles, which bought its nobility with the blood of its enemy. A nation, in which the battlefield glorifies the family, because by them, without hesitation, the nobler is considered he, whose weapon is more blood-stained in battle. Earlier, they – the Bulgarians – believed that the world is opened for them, but now they think that closed for them is only that part of the land, which you keep!"
Patriarch Magnus Felix Enodius from “Eulogy for the Gothic king Teodorikh”, V century AD

”… the fierce in the whole world Bulgarians.”
Kasiodor Senator, VI century AD

“Krobat, the lord of Bulgaria and the Krotags, left five sons and bequeathed them never to separate from each other, so that they could rule everywhere and not be slaves of another nation.”
Teofan Confessor, VIII century AD

“The Bulgarians are a huge, mighty and warlike people, that have subdued all their neighboring nations. One horseman of theirs can face 100 or 200 horsemen of the infidels. When they go to war they form lines – in front are the archers with their bows, and behind are the women and children…”
Abu al-Hassan Ali ibn Hussein ibn Ali al-Massoudi, X century AD

“The word Bulgarian means a worthy, wise man.”
Jagfar Tarikh – history of the Volga Bulgarians, 1098 AD

“In Bulgaria, during the times of Khan Krum, the words that meant lie, betrayal, treason, unconscientiousness, miserliness, envy, calumny were unknown.”
Mishel de Monten – “Essays”, XVI century AD

..”The list of the Bulgarian khans” is the oldest Bulgarian chronicle. Its first part was created in the reign of Khan Asparoukh, but it was finished in the second half of VIII century. The original was created on the language of the ancient Bulgarians. A proof of this are the calendar terms of the 12-year animalistic cyclic calendar and the numeral series.
„LIST OF THE BULGARIAN KHANS"
AVITOHOL – Lived 300 years. And his house was Dulo. His year DILOM TVIREM.
IRNIK – Lived 150 years. His house was Dulo. His year DILOM TVIREM.
GOSTUN – This one was a substitute. His house Ermi. His year DOKHS TVIREM.
KOURT held 60 years. His house Dulo. His year SHEGOR VECHEM.
BEZMER – 3 years. His house Dulo. His year SHEGOR VECHEM.
These 5 kings reigned 515 years on the other side of the Danube with their hairs cut. And after that ISPERIKH came at this side of the Danube, as it is today.
ISPERIKH – 61 years. His house Dulo. His year VERENI ALEM.
TERVEL – 21 years. His house Dulo. His year TEKU CHITEM.
TVIREM – 28 years. His house Dulo. His year DVAH SHEKHTEM.
SEVAR – 15 years. His house Dulo. His year TOKH ALTOM.
KORMISOSH – 17 years. And his house was Vokil. His year SHEGOR TVIREM. This king betrayed the house of Dulo, videlicet VIKHTUN .
VINEKH – 7 years. His house Vokil. His year IMEN – SHEGOR ALEM.
TELEC – three years. His house Ugain. His year SOMOR ALTEM.
UMOR – 40 days. His house Vokil.

The list became generally known thanks to the Russian scholar A. N. Popov in 1866. All of the researchers consider it as the most precious and reliable source, proving the millennial astronomic practice of the Bulgarians, which created the most accurate Solar calendar in the history of mankind, long before the new age (AD), in their distant Homeland near Mount Imeon in Middle Asia. The calendar is proposed by UNESCO for a future world uniform calendar. Only this achievement is enough in order the Bulgarians to be acknowledged forever as a fundamental civilization-creating element.


“It must be admitted that a continuity between Eastern and Western Europe in the region of culture exists and together with that the role of the Bulgarians in transmitting new civilization impulses to be emphasized.”
Dr. Harry Salman

“The Bulgarian country is among the seven world civilizations.”
Prof. Shigeoshi Mazuiama

“The Bulgarians were this nation, which – along with the Vikings – contributed the most for the organizing and forming of civilization in whole Eastern Europe. The Proto-Bulgarians organized the Bulgarian-Slavic tribes in one nation, in which the Bulgarian spirit and culture remained as a ferment/yeast for all times.”
Prof. Geza Feher

“In human history there are 28 civilizations and one of them is the Bulgarian.”
Sir Arnold Toenbe (Toinby? I’m not sure of the spelling)

“Bulgaria, by saving the work of St. St. Cyril and Methodius, has deserved the respect not only of the other Slavic nations, but also of mankind, and so it will be as long as we put a real meaning in the words progress, culture and humanity. Bulgaria not only preserved the great work of Cyril and Methodius from total erasing, but in its lands it developed, enriched and improved this priceless heritage.”
Roje Bernar

“Simeon was the Bulgarian Karl the Great (Charlemagne) and even happier than him, because he created the basics of a national literature.”
Alfred Rambo

“The Old-Bulgarian literature achieves high levels of development earlier than the literatures of the other Slavic nations. It is with a century older than the Russian literature.”
Academician Dmitriy Lihachov

“The Bulgarians stand at the basis of human civilization.”
Fransoa Miteran

“The Volga Bulgarians exist as a nation even now under the name “Tatars”.
Reza H. Bariev, Dr. of philosophical sciences

“Although we’re considered as Tatars by others, we are actually Bulgarians. Our closest relatives are the Bulgarians of the Danube. Just some of us stayed at the Volga River, while others went to the Danube and mixed with the Slavs.”
Talgat Tadjmudin – Sheikh ul-Islam, Mufti, chairman of the clerical council of the Muslims in Russia and the European countries

“History testifies that the Romanians have lived a long time in close contact with the Bulgarians, which have spread their power in the lands beyond the Danube. To this concomitance the Romanians owe their civilization in the Middle Ages.”
O. Denshianu

[Xuca]

Nice, Traveller, very interesting :go: Also a great translation :go:

[Traveller]

Hop, another translation! And the last one for now. In tuesday, 19, is my university-entrance history exam and I have to study like nuts! :silly:


Bozhidar Dimitrov, “A story of Bulgarian history’

Way of life, culture and social organization of the Bulgarians until the creation of the Bulgarian country


It self-comprehends that when looking at a period of 700 years everything could be seen only in progress. And the progress that the Bulgarians endure for 700 years is incredible. They quickly leave behind nations, with which they had an equal start in the North-Afghani plains, including their cousins like Avars, Pechenegs, Uzis and Kumans.
It’s without a doubt that in their homeland the Bulgarians were nomads. This doesn’t mean, as many people falsely think, that they live on horses and carts, which always travel somewhere. The nomadity in science is a term, which means a way of production in nations, whose main means of living is the stock-breeding. The nomads also have unchangeable settlements, but in which they only spend the winter – during the other three seasons the men and the grown children constantly move with their stocks within the tribal territory in search of better pastures. Those, who were making their daily bread through stock-breeding in the Bulgarian lands continued to practice this same way until the Balkan wars. The women of Kotlen and Zheravna, as it is known, have seen their men and the grown-up generation only from Christmas till the end of February, maximum. In the rest of the time they were in Dobrudzha. The same was with Smolian, Shiroka Luka and Dospat – only that there the men were “nomads” with their sheep in Aegean-Sea-Thrace.
But if the nomadic way of life was spread through 100% of the population in the plains and valleys of Pamir, in their new homes – the North-Black-Sea plains and the Crimea, this process obviously decreased considerably low. The Bulgarians, which settled here for 300 years, built big stone-made cities and fortresses, developed serious ore output and metallurgy. They needed a considerable for that time amount of metal – for weapons and agricultural instruments. Yes, also for agricultural instruments, because the archeological excavations unambiguously prove that not a little part of the Bulgarian population began to cultivate the land, to sow and harvest. Something more, some seeds, found at the excavations, show centuries of selection work with the purpose to achieve high-extractive sorts.
The achievements of the Bulgarians in this age really surprise even their contemporaries. The Armenian historians write with amazement that to the north of the Caucasus only the Bulgarians have stone-made cities – all the other nations live in huts, yurts and dug-outs. Their metal-production allowed them to equip and dress in armor not only their warriors, but also their horses. Some skills and achievements of the Bulgarian medics (complicated skull operations) or mathematicians (the amazingly precise calendar) provoke admiration even today among the respective specialists.
Of course, the economical and technological progress of the Bulgarians compared to other barbaric nations is not due to some racial excellence, neither to some God’s election. Both in the past and today there have been people, who close themselves, rejecting everything foreign, and nations, who hungrily absorb and improve ideas, cultures and technologies from the others. The Bulgarians were obviously a nation from the second type. Except all else, they have had the fortune to live on the borders of the great civilizations of the world – China, India, Persia, Byzantium, from which they obtained everything useful for every sphere of life with full hands.
Hardly could something be said about their racial type from the IV century and after. The mass idea, created in today’s Bulgarian people, for their ancestors as short, bow-legged mongoloids (even the Byzantines, that don’t like us, don’t write about such racial type in the old Bulgarians), doesn’t find confirmation neither in any of the ancient written sources, nor in the archeological excavations. The ancient, at that - foreign, writers speak of the Bulgarians as tall, stalwart and physically extremely strong people. One ancient Arab geographer even complaints that ten Arabs can’t beat one Bulgarian. The archeological excavation of the Bulgarian necropolises from VII-IX century in Pliska, Kiulecha, Novi Pazar and others show that the average height of the buried Bulgarians is 1,75m. At that time the average height of the European was 1,60m.
There’s nothing strange both in the height and in the physical strength of the Bulgarians. It’s long ago been proven that the height is in direct dependence in the consummation of meat and the physical exercises. The numerous high-productive herds ensured a lot of meat on the table of the Bulgarians, while the military service and the hard field work – the physical exercises.
The Iranians, as it is well known, also aren’t mongoloids. But it’s highly doubtful that even the Iranian racial type has survived in the three centuries of settled life between the Caucasus, the Black and the Caspian Seas. The immensely opened and tolerant system of society, for which we’ll speak later, attracted many people from other nations that were chased or have fled on their own due to many different reasons.
In the Black Sea region the Bulgarians assimilated thousands of Sarmatians and Scythians. In every of their numerous campaigns in Central Europe and to the south of Danube they abducted tens thousands of men, women and children – Germans, Slavs, Thracians, Romans, Greeks, which gradually integrated in the Bulgarian society without a shadow of discrimination. That’s why, talking about a specific racial type of the Bulgarians at the time of Khan Kubrat – the creator of the Bulgarian state, is just impossible. The name “Bulgar” itself, according to linguists, means “mix” – a mix of people from different nations.
The religion of the Bulgarians in their land of origin is animalistic – the cult to the ancestors, the “znaharstvo” (Ed. note: use of herbs for magical effect), the shamanism and the belief in the supreme divinity Tangra were joined together in it. But a remarkable religious tolerance reigned in the society.
Archeological excavations and written sources testify that among the Bulgarians (while living in the Black-Sea region) there were Christians and Buddhists and Judaists. A Christian was, as we will see, also the creator of today’s Bulgarian state Khan Kubrat, Christians were also other khans from the Pagan period of the Bulgarian country.
A special attention deserves the military organization of the Bulgarians. The army was made up of all physically healthy and efficient men, and in moments of critical hardship the young women were also recruited in the army. Probably from those times has remained the present-day notion in Bulgarian society that a man, who hasn’t passed military service, is not a real man. A harsh common law, and later - legislation, fixed the rights and obligations of the military men and in a number of references it comes close to the regulations of present-day armies. The army was mainly equestrian. Except the traditional for the steppe people light cavalry, the Bulgarians also had squads of heavily-armoured warriors – both the horses and the warriors were covered in chain-mails of iron or felt. The strike of the heavily-armoured cavalry (in the age of Krum – the beginning of IX century, it consisted of 30 000 warriors) would have the effect, which could be seen today in an attack of an armoured tank division over infantry divisions, armed with light weaponry. Actually, the constant Bulgarian victories over Byzantium were mainly due to the blows, delivered with the heavy cavalry – in the Byzantine army the heavily-armoured horsemen have never been more than 400 warriors.
The armament of the Bulgarians consisted of sabers, battle clubs, knives, spears (for the heavy cavalry), pikes (for the light cavalry), heavy bows, arcans.
Leaning exactly on their armies, the Bulgarians survived the chaos of the great migration of peoples and awaited their brightest hour.



See ya! :halloha:

[Mircoslavux]

Nice translation and I cross my finger for your exam. :go:
Nice weekend
BTW: Who is this Bozhidar Dimitrov? :scratch:

e.g. I do not believe some of slovakian history "experts" especially with high national feeling, because many of them articles are written more from subjective than objective view.

[Traveller]

Bozhidar Dimitrov is probably the most famous Bulgarian historian today, Director of the National Historical Museum, host of a historical TV show on the national television and, as you can see, author of many historical books, written on a popular, easy to understand language. I'm translating chapters of his books, because I doubt anoyone here would like to read long (even longer than these), serious and boring articles. And I don't think I could say it better than him, so I just translate.

[Mircoslavux]

Do you know Zbygniew Nieniacki - polish author
http://www.nienacki.art.pl/ in polish


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Nienacki some in english

he wrote very nice books about Mr. Tragacik, (orig. Szamochodzik) on very popular way with very nice serious historical backround.

Has somebody read his famous "Pan Samochodzik" books?
I do not know, if there are some editions in English???

[Mircoslavux]

Question for specialist in history:

Who was the first female leader of state mentioned in history ?????


I know only about Maria Theresia - Austria - Hungary, Katarina (Russia) , Elisabeth (UK), .....

[Elvain]

I'm not sure who was the very first, but there was one georgian queen in 11th century(forgot her name), but don't forget probably the most known one:
Cleopatra of Egypt :go:

[Mircoslavux]

I'm not sure who was the very first, but there was one georgian queen in 11th century(forgot her name), but don't forget probably the most known one:
Cleopatra of Egypt :go:

I do not know, if Cleopatra is more legend than true.
So the ruler in Egypt was Ceasar?!

[Elvain]

Cleopatra was the formal ruler. Egypt was in those times vasal of Rome, but it still had own rulers. And Cleopatra was teh official ruler

[Richard]

How about Isabella I of spain.
There were alot more female rulers in egyt, not just cleopatra. Maatkare Hatshepsut , Myrit-neith and a couple others, you can read about them here http://www.ancientnile.co.uk/pharaohs-women.php
How about the 3 bysantine empress Irene, Euphrosyne, and Theodora during the 8th-9th centuries and Mary I of england, Elisabeth's half sister. There are tons of other female rulers, in china I think htere are a couple and is russia too.

[conquestare legionare]

Nope it was agustus caesars heir , (honestly asterix and obelix really messes up history). Cleopatra didnt have any real power, her biiggest desiscions could only be approved through the emperor of rome.Actually egypt was a part of the empire the royal dynsaty was only put left for representives . and cause the people wanted egyptian rulers (or more likely puppet rulers). It would really be uneccery to not do that because if they didnt put egyptian rulers there would be a big revolt and they have to reinvade egypt. To put rulers was better then to risk revolt.And Cleopatras lover is Mark Anthony the general commanding the forces stationed in egypt not caesar.So Cleopatra isnt the official ruler.

[Traveller]

Hahaha... Oh, man! You know what? I'm really stupid! I just found out that I translated all of this for nothing - the whole book (I think) was already translated much better! You can read it here (http://www.bulgaria.com/history/bulgaria/index.html). Only the numerous photos from the book are missing, but I can't paste them here anyway, so...

[Mircoslavux]

Hi all, :eek:
I have started to write a historical novel about the magnat Matus III Cak Trenciansky (13.-14. century). (hm but in Slovakian).
It will by trilogy.
So cross your finger that I would finish, what I started.

I have one task to our expert here on forum.
Where can I find the names of Esthergom archbishops in 13.-14. centuries. They are very important in my book, but I can not find any concrete infos on the net.
Thanks

[the knightly sword]

Hahaha... Oh, man! You know what? I'm really stupid! I just found out that I translated all of this for nothing - the whole book (I think) was already translated much better! You can read it here (http://www.bulgaria.com/history/bulgaria/index.html). Only the numerous photos from the book are missing, but I can't paste them here anyway, so...


Dearest Traveller dont blame yourself !! you should see conquestares brain its full of spiderwebbs and strategi`s and tactics.

[Mircoslavux]

Hi,
:lol: :lol: :lol:
look here:
http://www.sme.sk/clanok.asp?rub=online_foto&cl=2326733

The text is as folowing:
German archeologist Petra Kielelbach shows 28 000 years old fallus made from stone, which was found in the cave in Baden-Wütenberg.
This toy is 20 cm long and 3 cm broad and puzzled from 14 found parts.

:hello: