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rmhainlen
01-02-2007, 02:31
I have gone from all but 6 territories to 1, when my king died. Thankfully, I had saved the game and could revert back, but that was depressing when it happened. :bash:
I got an old friend to reinstall the game again and he should be back playing.
I tried another game out, this time as Switzerland in the late period... Same thing, I amassed 8 provinces in central Europe within an hour or so with very little resistance from the AI. The key is just to have two generals with full armies and always attack with both...I never lose that way. I really hope there's a way to increase the difficulty with a mod or something because the game is still quite easy. Any suggestions?
By the way, I noticed someone mentioned the bug where you inherit 13 million gold or so...well, I was able to reproduce that bug. I had a royal marriage with Germany, and their King died. So I claimed their only province and received a hefty sum of 32 million gold or so along with the province. It only worked when they accepted my claim. I kept reloading because I wanted to steal Germany without getting the money...I try to play fair. It happened every time, so I actually had to conquer them. :bash: I'm not sure if this bug is well documented or not but I decided to throw in my $0.02.
Hope to hear some suggestions on what to do about this low difficulty.
Marcus
Edit: By the way, I'm not sure if the last few posters know this, but I've found that if you give your King an occupation, you never have heirs. At least it's like that for me...so if you have trouble producing heirs, trying keeping the ol' fart at home.
I tried another game out, this time as Switzerland in the late period... Same thing, I amassed 8 provinces in central Europe within an hour or so with very little resistance from the AI. The key is just to have two generals with full armies and always attack with both...I never lose that way. I really hope there's a way to increase the difficulty with a mod or something because the game is still quite easy. Any suggestions?come on!
If you always go with 2 fully equiped marshals what you expect? that AI will face 5 marshals egainst you in one province? When AI attacks my province with 2 marshals who cooperate (what is now much more often!) I hardly have chance unless I have second marshal very close.
By the way, I noticed someone mentioned the bug where you inherit 13 million gold or so...well, I was able to reproduce that bug. I had a royal marriage with Germany, and their King died. So I claimed their only province and received a hefty sum of 32 million gold or so along with the province. It only worked when they accepted my claim. I kept reloading because I wanted to steal Germany without getting the money...I try to play fair. It happened every time, so I actually had to conquer them. :bash: I'm not sure if this bug is well documented or not but I decided to throw in my $0.02.
Hope to hear some suggestions on what to do about this low difficulty.About the money problem, it seems to appear quite often. Isn't it when someone inherits last provinces of some kingdom?
I haven't came across this bug yet.
And it's not low dificulty. The patch can't deal with the fact that you invade by twin marshals. And if they increase the dificulty, I hear you saying: I meet no resistance. I send 4 marshals in the province and I always win. Of course you win.
If you try to conquer a province just with one marshal once, you'll see that the game has improved a lot (I hardly win with just one marshal)
Edit: By the way, I'm not sure if the last few posters know this, but I've found that if you give your King an occupation, you never have heirs. At least it's like that for me...so if you have trouble producing heirs, trying keeping the ol' fart at home.
this is completely random. You could hear people saying that the sure way to get heir is to occupy their king :go:
Anguille2
01-02-2007, 10:14
In my last game with Georgia (which i lost btw), Italy invaded one of my provinces with 4 armies ...
Needless to say that i was toast and i lost a 6 star Marshal who was defending the city...:go:
PS: i am wondering if, on hard difficulty, it could be possible to start with -5 KP...that would make the game much harder...can we edit this?
PS: i am wondering if, on hard difficulty, it could be possible to start with -5 KP...that would make the game much harder...can we edit this?I was just looking at the files and it might be possible.
But there might be problem if the AI would start on -5 KP too
I wish there would be possibility to make diferent monetary constant of KP for AI and player
Anguille2
01-02-2007, 11:18
I was just looking at the files and it might be possible.
But there might be problem if the AI would start on -5 KP too
I wish there would be possibility to make diferent monetary constant of KP for AI and player
I was thinking -5 KP only for the player if that is possible.
come on!
If you always go with 2 fully equiped marshals what you expect? that AI will face 5 marshals egainst you in one province? When AI attacks my province with 2 marshals who cooperate (what is now much more often!) I hardly have chance unless I have second marshal very close.
Is it really asking too much to assume that when the AI sees two marshals invading one province they should immediately bring their other marshals in to come and defend it? They often tend to send one to pillage a field in one of my provinces and keep the other to stay and defend the castle. Do you mean to say that I'm basically exploiting the game by using two marshalls? That it wasn't intended? Come on? :scratch:
I'm not trying to come off as ungrateful for the patch by any means! It made some really awesome improvements to a game I consider a hidden treasure. I'm simply stating my personal opinion about the patch hoping to contribute some information and maybe develop some ideas for improvement. But you're making it seem like I'm asking too much or that I'm being unreasonable because I use a very valid strategy.
And it's not low dificulty. The patch can't deal with the fact that you invade by twin marshals. And if they increase the dificulty, I hear you saying: I meet no resistance. I send 4 marshals in the province and I always win. Of course you win.
If you try to conquer a province just with one marshal once, you'll see that the game has improved a lot (I hardly win with just one marshal)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to reinforce your belief that I'm unfairly exploiting the game by using two marshals. I never read anywhere (manual or patch notes) that using two marshals together was a strategy not supported by the game; after all, battles CAN support up to four marshals. And furthermore, if the AI could deal with two armies I wouldn't be able to say, "Well, I'll just use four armies now." If the AI could handle my two armies at a time the other two marshals wouldn't really have much to do but sit around and pillage until the battle is over. And even then, if they captured or destroyed my first two marshals in the process, I wouldn't really get very far in conquering them (especially if they have allies). The game would be much, much more challenging.
On a side note, is it possible to mod the game to where the player and/or AI is/are limited to a certain number of marshals?
Anyway, my cap of marshals is usually three -- even when I own 25 provinces. Plus, If I don't have some merchants and spies and clerics mixed in there, I wouldn't be able to manage my empire the way I like to.
Bottom line: I'd have a heck of a challenge taking on the computer if they could simply repel my two-marshal strategy...trust me. I don't think it's asking for much and I strongly feel like I am playing fairly. So, no offense friend, but please don't put words in my mouth as to how I would react to the computer beating my two-marshal strategy. Thanks! :cheers:
Marcus
Anguille2
01-02-2007, 14:14
Laudan is working on an update of his Hard Mod....this will keep you busy for sure!
image from Mod hard by Laudan (http://forum.sunflowers.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=3467&d=1170232080)
Is it really asking too much to assume that when the AI sees two marshals invading one province they should immediately bring their other marshals in to come and defend it? They often tend to send one to pillage a field in one of my provinces and keep the other to stay and defend the castle. Do you mean to say that I'm basically exploiting the game by using two marshalls? That it wasn't intended? Come on? :scratch: I just want to say: AI was improved, now you hardly conquer a city with 1 marshal. Usualy when I want to conquer a city I also send there 2 marshals in order to have easy win. But then I don't complain it is too easy, because even with 2 marshals there are large casaulties on my side.
It also happened to me that several times my doubbled force was defeated by AI's doubble forces.
Claiming that AI is weak now (if one still remember the AI before the patch) is ridiculous for me! Just my opinion.
The AI still usualy invades my lands with one army, but that is soon followed by second and third. Also note that AI mostly isn't at war only with you. When I pay someone to start a war against my opponent, I do it to tie enemy forces somewhere esle, so I don't complain he doesn't send all his 3 marshals against me, but only 2. Especialy when I invade his lands by 2 marshals while he may be invaded from other side.
In most cases I don't even have time to "peacefuly" plunder without being attacked by the AI marshal.
When my second marshal joins, I'm able to take the province, but still not always. Of course that players strategic skill will always be superior to AI's
But you're making it seem like I'm asking too much or that I'm being unreasonable because I use a very valid strategy.I just say you use a strategy which even the player can hardly stand, nothing more. When I am attacked by 2 AI marshals, I mostly lose too, sometimes even with 2 my marshals.
I also use mostly 2-3 marshals when my empire is large, no more. I don't complain that AI is weak because my experience is diferent.
You can use 5 marshals to invade one provinces, you can use even 8 marshals, but don't say then that the AI is weak because it cannot hold against such invasion. 2 fully equiped marshals with siege equipment are very hard to defeat, you have to face them with equal or stronger force. If you don't actualy have 2 marshals to use, you lose.
You can't expect the AI to be smarter than you are
--
btw, Anguille, the negative KP at start isn't possible ATM
Edit: By the way, I'm not sure if the last few posters know this, but I've found that if you give your King an occupation, you never have heirs. At least it's like that for me...so if you have trouble producing heirs, trying keeping the ol' fart at home.
You apparently have a lot of sterile Kings, because occupation has nothing to do with it. I had a Prince on duty as a Marshall when he was crowned King, he remained a Marshall on Campaign until he died of old age and produced a full house(3 Princes and 3 Princesses).
Having an occupation is not figured into the heir equation.
Scott716
01-02-2007, 16:50
Is it really asking too much to assume that when the AI sees two marshals invading one province they should immediately bring their other marshals in to come and defend it? They often tend to send one to pillage a field in one of my provinces and keep the other to stay and defend the castle. Do you mean to say that I'm basically exploiting the game by using two marshalls? That it wasn't intended? Come on? :scratch:
I'm not trying to come off as ungrateful for the patch by any means! It made some really awesome improvements to a game I consider a hidden treasure. I'm simply stating my personal opinion about the patch hoping to contribute some information and maybe develop some ideas for improvement. But you're making it seem like I'm asking too much or that I'm being unreasonable because I use a very valid strategy.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to reinforce your belief that I'm unfairly exploiting the game by using two marshals. I never read anywhere (manual or patch notes) that using two marshals together was a strategy not supported by the game; after all, battles CAN support up to four marshals. And furthermore, if the AI could deal with two armies I wouldn't be able to say, "Well, I'll just use four armies now." If the AI could handle my two armies at a time the other two marshals wouldn't really have much to do but sit around and pillage until the battle is over. And even then, if they captured or destroyed my first two marshals in the process, I wouldn't really get very far in conquering them (especially if they have allies). The game would be much, much more challenging.
On a side note, is it possible to mod the game to where the player and/or AI is/are limited to a certain number of marshals?
Anyway, my cap of marshals is usually three -- even when I own 25 provinces. Plus, If I don't have some merchants and spies and clerics mixed in there, I wouldn't be able to manage my empire the way I like to.
Bottom line: I'd have a heck of a challenge taking on the computer if they could simply repel my two-marshal strategy...trust me. I don't think it's asking for much and I strongly feel like I am playing fairly. So, no offense friend, but please don't put words in my mouth as to how I would react to the computer beating my two-marshal strategy. Thanks! :cheers:
Marcus
The two marshal attack is fine but there are many variables that come into play. You can't expect the AI to have many marshals sitting around for invasions, they are often busy at war with other places, and not available to help or to far away. You may be off while someone else comes in and attacks your under protected kingdom. You make take the province but keeping it is another thing later on. I don't think it's a major problem.
I just want to say: AI was improved, now you hardly conquer a city with 1 marshal. Usualy when I want to conquer a city I also send there 2 marshals in order to have easy win. But then I don't complain it is too easy, because even with 2 marshals there are large casaulties on my side.
This never happens to me. I have a few casualties but nothing I can't recover within a few minutes of walking around and replenishing/rehiring.
It also happened to me that several times my doubbled force was defeated by AI's doubble forces.
This has only happened a few times to me. And when it does, it isn't very hard for me to just hire some more marshals and end up winning. I just wish the AI would hire marshals as quickly and defend themselves.
Claiming that AI is weak now (if one still remember the AI before the patch) is ridiculous for me! Just my opinion.
I never ever said the AI is weak now. The AI has been improved, no doubt. All I am saying, is that since this is the thread to discuss the content of the 2nd (and probably last) patch, I am eager to voice my concern over what I feel is a serious issue in the game. My intentions are to see who agrees with me so that we can work as a team to make the game more of a challenge.
The AI still usualy invades my lands with one army, but that is soon followed by second and third. Also note that AI mostly isn't at war only with you. When I pay someone to start a war against my opponent, I do it to tie enemy forces somewhere esle, so I don't complain he doesn't send all his 3 marshals against me, but only 2. Especialy when I invade his lands by 2 marshals while he may be invaded from other side.
I know what you mean...this actually happens to me, too. But all I have to do is take out each army, individually, with my double teaming marshals. After I kill all of their armies, it's quite easy to just go and conquer their territories.
In most cases I don't even have time to "peacefuly" plunder without being attacked by the AI marshal.
When my second marshal joins, I'm able to take the province, but still not always. Of course that players strategic skill will always be superior to AI's
The AI does a good job at interrupting plunder, I'll admit. However, they usually only send one marshal. At this point, I'll just send my other marshal to help my marshal being defended against and the rest is history. I rarely run into an instance where I can't double team a province. Unless my marshals' armies are composed entirely of peasants, that really never becomes an issue.
I just say you use a strategy which even the player can hardly stand, nothing more. When I am attacked by 2 AI marshals, I mostly lose too, sometimes even with 2 my marshals.
Sorry Elvain, but I strongly disagree with you. I think the point of a strategy game is to work hard while being kept on your toes to become the biggest and most powerful nation in the game...not intentionally give myself a handicap because I feel like the game is too easy/AI is too stupid. Besides, the AI has double teamed me like, twice total. I would honestly feel better just giving the computer some sort of a handicap that doesn't affect my strategy. A handicap like tougher, cheaper troops and marshals, or even more money. I feel like I'm not really playing and having fun if I intentionally avoid a good strategy.
I also use mostly 2-3 marshals when my empire is large, no more. I don't complain that AI is weak because my experience is diferent.
You can use 5 marshals to invade one provinces, you can use even 8 marshals, but don't say then that the AI is weak because it cannot hold against such invasion. 2 fully equiped marshals with siege equipment are very hard to defeat, you have to face them with equal or stronger force. If you don't actualy have 2 marshals to use, you lose.
Sure you can use 5 marshals to invade one province, or even 8. That's not my point. My point is, the AI doesn't defend against even two very well. Heck, they rarely even attack me with two marshals. You're right, it's no problem to overwhelm any enemy if you are willing to sacrifice trade relations, good clerics and/or spies to hire that many marshals. However, I'm concerned that with just two armies and eventually three I can conquer the world fairly easily. I wish that it either wouldn't be as easy or that I would sometimes need 3 or 4 just to defend myself.
You can't expect the AI to be smarter than you are
I've never played a game with AI that is smarter than I am, you're right. But that never prevents other games from being a challenge. All I am asking for is a challenge, not for AI that can outwit and outsmart me strategically.
Like I said before, I am not trying to sound like I'm whining that this patch wasn't good enough. I think it is great and I really appreciate what BSS has done. All I am saying is that since this is probably the last patch, I would like to work together with those who may agree with me and maybe design a mod that increases the difficulty (kind of like what was done before the patch). Since I know the AI isn't really going to get any better, I really feel like this issue can be addressed with a mod. I am actually just calling upon all of your expertise in modding to help me design something that will make KoH more enjoyable for me. You are entitled to play however you'd like and I completely respect that. Debating with me about this issue really won't make me change how I feel about how I play...and I don't expect it to change how you play, either.
Thanks, and I'm eager to hear some ideas or suggestions! I wonder when Laudan's mod will be finished? :cheers:
Marcus
P.S. Dobber, I'm glad you informed me of that. I was coincidentally never producing kids while my King was occupied. It just seemed like whenever I left him at the throne, he produced more kids. It must have been a coincidence. In any event, I learned something new.
MArcuso. When you use the best strategy which prevents loses, son't expect to lose, that's all I can say.
If you want not to lose, use your strategy, if you want challenge, risk. If you don't risk you can't expect challenge. Things that are sure are never challenge. That's not matter of KOH or computer games, it's a life principle.
So: when you play to have everything sure, don't expect challenge. If you want challenge, risk!
P.S. Dobber, I'm glad you informed me of that. I was coincidentally never producing kids while my King was occupied. It just seemed like whenever I left him at the throne, he produced more kids. It must have been a coincidence. In any event, I learned something new.
It could be that my King's court could have just had a lot of actively naughty Lord's and his Queen maybe was promiscuous! :biggrin: :rofl:
kevincompton
01-02-2007, 18:06
I do think the AI should hate the human more then they do...
parachute
02-02-2007, 02:53
The new patch made the game FAR more interesting IMO.
You can still conquer everyone with 2 marshals, that's true, but I have to think much more than before to do so. -- That's all I can expect from a strategy game vs AI.
I think twice before declaring a war now, because the AI has really really nice and up-to-date and balanced armies now. If they have an experienced marshal leading, I have the alarm bells sounding.
I play with 3 marshals only. 4 marshals if there is an emergency. 1 marshal for rebellions, two marshals to destroy enemy armies. If I get more than two wars on my territory at the same time, I get the feeling of pressure on me. That is new after the new patch. I feel like I *could* lose the game, after having more than 6 provinces now.
I actually lost one game. Had many minors declare war on me , so I had rebellion risk because of war weariness. Then my cleric king died trying to convert a province (!) with no heirs (!!) and I had 2 marshals rebeling. Rebels and minor countries set me back from a major power in europe to a minor myself.
I don't think the AI countries should hate the player more. I hate MTW2 and CivIII for this. In KoH the AI plays honorable. And maybe that's the thing I like the most about the whole game.
In KoH I got dow'ed after
1. getting a warning
2. claiming inheritance land
3. after losing marshals or troops in big battles (that is: being weak!)
I really like the game now.
Good job!
MArcuso. When you use the best strategy which prevents loses, son't expect to lose, that's all I can say.
If you want not to lose, use your strategy, if you want challenge, risk. If you don't risk you can't expect challenge. Things that are sure are never challenge. That's not matter of KOH or computer games, it's a life principle.
So: when you play to have everything sure, don't expect challenge. If you want challenge, risk!
This is really getting us nowhere. I'm trying to get help on making a mod or finding one/assisting with one that makes the game more challenging. I know life principles well enough and I know that risk is something that can lead to reward to complete failure.
However, I don't think there should be a "best strategy" in any strategy game...there should be strengths and weaknesses to all strategies, depending on the player's style. For instance, if I just mass out a huge army, my people should be more discontent or my inflation should rise or something of that nature.
Besides, I don't think it's really taking a "risk" by giving myself a handicap and only using 1 army per province because otherwise I can win. I would be taking a risk if my two-marshal strategy didn't work well and I tried something new to see if it worked. Unfortunately, this isn't the case so there really isn't anything to risk anymore.
Marcus
Anguille2
02-02-2007, 09:09
Marcuso,
I've tried myself to modify some AI values in the easy section but then the game didn't start anymore....guess my days as modders are over unless someone can give a good guide on what can be done (numberwise) and what can't. Until then i'll wait for Laudan's mod as he knows how to do it...i am sure it will meet your expectations as well.
Cheers :wink:
Marcuso.
Once I have good and experienced marshal, I always try to use just one marshal, even to take a province. Sometimes it works, if I have luck. If I don't I call for a reserve marshall who reinforces the first who meanwhile plunders (if possible)
There is a large risk in using 2 marshals on one front. Actual AI is much more agresive against you so if you have 2 marshals on one front and only one other to protect all your lands which may be attacked from other 3 sides, it's risky.
In order to eliminate an enemy, on west, I have to sacrifise 1-2 provinces on the east, then I may reconquer them.
I'm actualy working on a mod that will even increase the chance of 2 or more front fight always you fight.
Complains like "AI isn't able to defeat my maximal possible force at once" are like complaints that there's no sun at night.
I'm dong my best, I think I know the game enough to know that AI will never be able to defeat "twin marshals" on a field, untill there are equal squad limits per marshal for human and AI. I'm doing my best to improve the game, I'm reading these objections and appreciate those who can move our work somewhere. But complain that at night there is dark will move us nowhere. It's an unchangable fact.
Marcuso.
Once I have good and experienced marshal, I always try to use just one marshal, even to take a province. Sometimes it works, if I have luck. If I don't I call for a reserve marshall who reinforces the first who meanwhile plunders (if possible)
There is a large risk in using 2 marshals on one front. Actual AI is much more agresive against you so if you have 2 marshals on one front and only one other to protect all your lands which may be attacked from other 3 sides, it's risky.
In order to eliminate an enemy, on west, I have to sacrifise 1-2 provinces on the east, then I may reconquer them.
I'm actualy working on a mod that will even increase the chance of 2 or more front fight always you fight.
Complains like "AI isn't able to defeat my maximal possible force at once" are like complaints that there's no sun at night.
I'm dong my best, I think I know the game enough to know that AI will never be able to defeat "twin marshals" on a field, untill there are equal squad limits per marshal for human and AI. I'm doing my best to improve the game, I'm reading these objections and appreciate those who can move our work somewhere. But complain that at night there is dark will move us nowhere. It's an unchangable fact.
Elvain, I believe you're missing my point. My point is not that I am dissatisfied with the patch and that the game is terrible. I don't expect a "magical fix" to where the AI learns to work around my strategy. All I am asking is for help on either making a mod myself or finding and assisting with another mod. A mod that forces the AI to build more armies and hurt me more in wars would probably do the trick. Right now, I can just defeat it with two armies. Once I destroy the AI's main armies, it takes forever for it to train new ones and strike back at me.
I have stated before that I know the AI won't really be changed anymore, and I don't really expect it to. Besides, if I were complaining I would have used more negative rhetoric than I have been using; I think the game is great and if I didn't love it so much I wouldn't be wasting my time on these forums trying to voice my concerns and fix them.
In fact, it sounds like your mod is exactly what would fix my problem. Multiple front fights are pretty rare for me right now. If I had a risk associated with sending two marshals together (which I really don't at the moment), I would then consider it a risk and probably have a LOT more fun playing.
I've tried myself to modify some AI values in the easy section but then the game didn't start anymore....guess my days as modders are over unless someone can give a good guide on what can be done (numberwise) and what can't. Until then i'll wait for Laudan's mod as he knows how to do it...i am sure it will meet your expectations as well.
Thanks for the info Anguille2. Sad to know that you won't be trying to mod anymore; however, I searched around for Laudan's mod and it looks like he's discontinuing it. Is this true?
EDIT: Whoops, I searched around again today and found that he is actually releasing a new version soon. Woohoo! :go: Looking forward to it.
Thanks!
Marcus
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