Holy Rome 1.6(Elvain's mod)

[candelarius]

Ooooohhh. I thought you could hire assassins to attack enemy Royal Family members or something. Nevermind. Thanks!

[Elvain]

Unfortunately they are just military unit, not knights..

to create a unit is much easier than create a knight :wink:

though you inspired me, they will have bonus that is good against heavily armoured units. That will make them deadly also against marshalls :dwink: :knight: especialy when they are very fast infantry unit

[Traveller]

The assassins are (aka) the Hashishins, right? Or I got it wrong... :scratch:
And too bad I haven't installed KoH (and I probably won't install it soon - too few time and if I install it - less than no time at all), otherwise I would immediately try out you mod, Elvain! And btw, thanks for the mail! :wink:

[qorda]

The assassins are (aka) the Hashishins, right? Or I got it wrong... :scratch:
:
:angel: That's right; hasheeshin is the correct term. They worked as murderers but them as a military unit is a far shot. There wasn't any significant battle in which they took part apart from few occasions when their hideout was under siege. They were hated by muslims more than they were hated by any one else. :yuck:

[Elvain]

Assassinss are assassins. In all (english) sources I red about crusades they are mentioned as Assassins so I found this term correct.

In bibliographies to their topic I have never seen any bood about hasheeshins, but always about Assassins. But yes, they are the same and yes, muslims didn't like them much (just like Templars were not very popular in the Catholic world)

[Traveller]

I've read about them here also as Hashishins (and sometimes as Assassins). IIRC, they were called Hashishins, because before sending someone to an assassination mission (the word "assassin" actually comes from them), their ruler (I don't know his title) gave them hashish to "taste Heaven". After that, the assassin, who has already tasted the Heaven, wasn't so unwilling to die, while performing his duty, which made them formidable assassins. I don't know how far this is true, but at least as a story it's nice...

[Angryminer]

Yes, my knowledge about Hashishins/Assassins backs up what you said, Traveller.

Angryminer

[Elvain]

yes yes, I know this all, but all of english historiography I know uses term Assassins so I use this term.

I know they were also called Hashisheens, that it is based on hashish.

The the leader was called "The Oldmand of the Mountain" (probably no the best translation into english, I know), it was probably a myth based on leader of Syrian Assassins Sinaan ibn Salmaan ibn Muhammad (leader of syrian assassins in 1162-1192)

btw the story is said to be a myth which has origins in Persia and through several christian travellers and crusader chronicles it became the most known information about assassins :lol:... just another of examples how myths are one of main information sources for us about muslims :sad:

[Shane]

Also, the Assasins feared the Knights Hostpitaller.
The Hospitaller had a famous castle near the hideout of the Assasins (can't remember the name of the castle right now, it's a French name), from which they would keep an eye on the Assasins. After the fall of Jerusalem, the headquarter of the Hospitaller relocated to this castle, and it was their headquarters for quite a while.
The strength of this castle was such that while at full strength it could hold something like 5000 men, only 60 men were absolutely necessary to hold it.

Anyway, maybe the Hospitallers could have a bonus against Assasins? It could help to counter that bonus the Assasins have against the Marshall you're planning on.

[Traveller]

The the leader was called "The Oldmand of the Mountain" (probably no the best translation into english, I know)...
"The Oldman of the Mountain"? Hah, so it was true! I read it a week or two ago in one Bulgarian historical novel, where they mentioned for a little exactly this story about the hashish and "The Oldman of the Mountain"... :biggrin:

[Elvain]

We're going little offtopic, but I don't care much as this version of HR mod is gonna be replaced by the new one..

anyway. The castle you meant, Shane, is Crac des chevaliers, the biggest jewel of crusader castle architecture in Syropalestine. This amazing stronghold fall to mameluk sultan Baibars, and yes it was not far from the base of Assassins. But I wouldn't say Assassins feared Hospitaliers comparably more than other crusaders. I'd say that Assassins feared sunni muslims more than crusaders...

And the myth came to Europe when Henry of Champagne said he was in Assassin stronghold and met there "The Oldman from the Mountain" who told him he doesn't believe that crusaders are not as faithfull to their lords as Oldman's men to the Oldman. And then he ordered 2 young men to jump from 300meters high rock and they did it.

There are many comparable stories in Europe history, but we consider them as myths. Why do we believe such myths when they come from other culture? :scratch:
btw it was definitely inaan ibn Salmaan ibn Muhammad as in 1192, after a death of Conrad of Monferrat (at the time when Henri of Champagne "visited him" he was very close to own death - very old



PS: anyone has any suggestoins or notes o the 1.7 beta?

[candelarius]

I haven't installed the 1.7 beta yet, as I don't feel qualified yet to be much of a help (I'm still learning 1.6!). But, I'll be glad to install it and let you know what I find.

*goes to install*

[Elvain]

hey, guys, please. I had no problem when the thread started to be offtopic by one topic. If you want to discuss greek phalanx and roman legions do it somewhere else.

Assassins had at least some connection to this thread. Phalanxes definitely don't!

Offtopic mesages deleted.

[qorda]

Assassinss are assassins. In all (english) sources I red about crusades they are mentioned as Assassins so I found this term correct.

:nono: Assassins are hasheeshins if you go for the authentic term but are assassins if you refer to distorted european versions just as Abu Ali Seena becomes Avicenna in European versions. :biggrin:

[Elvain]

Assassinss are assassins. In all (english) sources I red about crusades they are mentioned as Assassins so I found this term correct.

:nono: Assassins are hasheeshins if you go for the authentic term but are assassins if you refer to distorted european versions just as Abu Ali Seena becomes Avicenna in European versions. :biggrin:
in Europe (and in historiography of European provenience) they are called Assassins.
in muslim world they are called hashisheens, right. We also say Saladin(instead of Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub), Cairo(instead of Al Qairah), Koran instead of Al-Qur'an etc :wink:

By Abu Ali Seena you probably mean Abu 'Ali Ibn Seena (when someone mentions him only by "last name" he's called Ibn Seena, just like when Antoine de Saint-Exupéry is called Saint-Exupéry rather than Antoine de Exupéry :biggrin: if you don't know :biggrin:)

btw this is again offtopic. If you want to continue in this topic, we have Webmaster's Inn or DMZ. Thanks :go:

[candelarius]

How about creating a 1.7 topic? :hello:

[Elvain]

How about creating a 1.7 topic? :hello:
as soon as 1.7 will be completed :wink:

PS: qorda. I told you not to continue in off-topic here. You didn't respect it, your probllem, your post is deleted. But that doesn't mean I don't give you chance to discuss this topic. You could do what I did: http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?p=133890#post133890

[Doux]

Fair enough.

So, 1.7 was still bèta? That's good to know. Do you mind my asking if there will be new mapchanges? I will have to put them into my mod then asap (copycat, copycat! :smile:). That's because my knowledge of the Medieval maps is very limited and I trust that your changes are right ones (and if they aren't they're at least fun).

Also, did you fail in adding more than six units at all times?

[Elvain]

yes, 1.7 is still in beta phase.

There will be some more mapchanges (even in comparison to 1.7beta). They are not perfect and far from being satisfactory and I still know there are some reserves that could be done better, if I would try a little harder.

Yes, I failed everytime when tried to add more than 6 unite :sad:

btw, you're not a copycat. You just find something interesting and use it to make your own work better
----

it will take some time untill the final version is ready as I don't have the time to play KoH now :sad:
----

The 1.7version is done at the moment. Now I only need to list all the changes and upload it.

I tried to add several features but failed. I think that at the moment, if no miracle happens I can't move any further...
So If I'll have enough time, I could try to upload the mod tomorrow or on wednesday...

[candelarius]

What were the features that failed? Regardless, even your 1.6 version is excellent, whatever 1.7 offers will be good enough for me. Thanks for all your hard work.