[en] Regions of medieval Europe

[Mircoslavux]

no matter, but maybe jpeg is the best for me..

(PS: if there would be soe map of Arabian peninsula it wouldn't mind too :blush: sorry, I think I want everything
It's great you can help me and I am very thankful, so don't want to bother you..)


If you want I can scan you America, Japan, China, India, Afrika , australia...xxiixixixixii, but it will be to much :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Traveller]

Elvain, sorry that I forgot to ask for the regions in that forum I mentioned. I'll do it now. And btw I saw there a few maps and I think it wouldn't be bad if I post them here:

Map-1 (http://www.macedoniainfo.com/BULGARIA-BORIS.jpg)
Map-2 (http://www.macedoniainfo.com/macedonia/BULGARIA-SIMEON.jpg)
Map-3 (http://www.macedoniainfo.com/BULGARIA-SAMUEL.jpg)
Map-4 (http://www.macedoniainfo.com/BULGARIA-ASSEN-I.jpg)
Map-5 (http://www.macedoniainfo.com/BULGARIA-ASSEN-II.jpg)
Map-6 (http://www.macedoniainfo.com/BULGARIA-KAROLINGERS.jpg)

[Traveller]

For now they said only that:
During the time of Pressian and Boris Bulgaria was divided on 10 komitats, but a precise map of the administrative regions couldn't be done. Eventually you could make a relative map by circling the 10 most important cities, considering the terrain and the natural borders. But it's easier to make such a map of the Second Bulgarian State: According to the Dubrovnik charter of Tsar Ioan Assen II, the Bulgarian tsardom was divided to the following horas:
- Belgrad (Beograd)
- Branichevo
- Turnovo
- Karvuna
- Krun
- Borui (Borui, present Stara Zagora)
- Skopie
- Devol
- Prilep
It was also suggested that Plovdiv (Philipopolis) was in the Borui region and Sofia was either in Skopie or Turnovo.

I'll keep you updated if something new comes out!

[Elvain]

thanks for the help, Traveller and Mirco...

now also England and Scotland are done, but I will probably release the entire map of western Europe (including Britain, Pyrenean peninsula, France, Italy, Germany Bohemia and Denmark) at once...

[Xuca]

Hey, Elvain, do you still need help with Serbia? On the little map I marked the border of Raska and Bosna: http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/5729/0506107qh.jpg
The border is Drina, wich is in that black circle. Combined with the other map, that should be it.

[Elvain]

thanks..

Even when the map will be ready there is still good reason why to post some usefull info that may make it even better...

btw, here 's a concept of the core of latin Europe.. after some minor fixes made mostly in Germany + England and Scotland added (Ireland and Wales are in progress as well as Spain and Italy)
western Europe (http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9803/zape6oq.jpg)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9803/zape6oq.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zape6oq.jpg)

I apologise that islands of Zeeland are missing :blush: after Mirco sent me some maps, I will make some minor changes also in Germany + add make Lille (Lillois) a separate county as part of Flandres

[Xuca]

Cities? I'll check my map (I have the larger version of the same map, but unfortunately I don't have a scanner)

[Elvain]

Cities? I'll check my map (I have the larger version of the same map, but unfortunately I don't have a scanner)
some cities were centres of separate counties so I make those counties separate regions...

especially in germany there were dozens of "imperial cities" with free status (were subordinated directly to the emperor) and were centres of super-small imperial domains, some of those dominions were larger (like Metz etc.) so they automaticaly became a separate regions, the smaller ones I am considering...

but if you caoul mark all important cities, it would be great too :go: I am not even sure if I will subdivide Raška into smaller regions... so it could help me

[Doux]

I'm interested. Great job Elvain!

How do you actually make these maps? Draw them by hand?

[Elvain]

I'm interested. Great job Elvain!

How do you actually make these maps? Draw them by hand?
Yes the maps are drawn on see-through paper

and they are based on certain map I usualy mention...those are not from the same period (Germany is based on map of AD1378, while France on 1180. England and Scotalnd on 1300)but I combine them with all reasonable maps I collected (print them all in the same scale as the "basic map" of the certain region)
What I really like is that especially in France and Germany the borders mostly follow the same line and just make smaller sub-regions in those already existing

[Xuca]

some cities were centres of separate counties so I make those counties separate regions...

especially in germany there were dozens of "imperial cities" with free status (were subordinated directly to the emperor) and were centres of super-small imperial domains, some of those dominions were larger (like Metz etc.) so they automaticaly became a separate regions, the smaller ones I am considering...

but if you caoul mark all important cities, it would be great too :go: I am not even sure if I will subdivide Raška into smaller regions... so it could help me
I posted my message before you edited yours, so it could be confusing a little. I just wanted to say that in Duklja (Zeta) Skadar was very important, maybe more than Kotor, and the city Duklja (Dioclea) was also.
And in Raska most important was Ras (s, not š). I know you claim that Belgrade was much more importan in the region, but it was much north.

[Elvain]

I posted my message before you edited yours, so it could be confusing a little. I just wanted to say that in Duklja (Zeta) Skadar was very important, maybe more than Kotor, and the city Duklja (Dioclea) was also.
And in Raska most important was Ras (s, not š). I know you claim that Belgrade was much more importan in the region, but it was much north.
thanks.

I don't claim Belgrade being more important for medieval Serbia than Ras as I discovered it wasn't fact..(but yes, I thought it was..)

I'm yet not very sure about Serbia. I just know that Skadar will separate "county" inside Zeta/Duklja and also Kotor will be an "independent county" (part of Zeta/Duklja) to make it fit late medieval situation when it was controlled by Italians so Duklja lasts to be the most important city of the region of Duklja (rural inland)
I just don't know how to make it ...
Duklja+Kotor/Cataro+Skadar=Zeta or some otehr way... :scratch: (in later period - 15th century - Skadar will probably be part of North Epirus/Albania)

I'll see

[Xuca]

Skadar was the capital until after the Balsics. I'm sorry I 'can't scan my maps for you. :sad:

[Traveller]

Ok, Elvain, the people in that forum are working now like crazy (in the good form of the word)! One of them, Warlord, is working on a map, according to the already mentioned Dubrovnik charter (and in the previous one, which I wrote here, there are some regions missing). Here (http://forum.boinaslava.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5544) is what's done for now. Right now I'm quite busy, but I think I'll update the info around Monday. Although for now I'll write again all the regions, mentioned in the Dubrovnik charter (and if you want, I could try to translate it - it's quite short). But note that this is from the time of Tsar Ioan Assen II (1218-1241), which is one of our golden ages:
Bdin
Branichevo
Belgrad
Turnovo
Preslav
Karvuna
Krun (near Kazanluk)
Borui (Stara Zagora)
Odrin [Adrianople]
Dimotika
Skopie
Prilep
Solun
Devol (somewhere in Albania below the Ohrid lake)
Arbanassi land - Albania


P.S. Btw I gave them a link to this thread and I hope that someone of them could also join here and write himself! I'm sure they could give a much more detailed info and explain it better themselves!

[Elvain]

thanks, it's great..

btw, I have finished also Italy and Spain:
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/5426/zapebig12xa.th.jpg (http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zapebig12xa.jpg)

[Mircoslavux]

wow looks great, ...
It is amazing, that you do it gratis...in our capital world:scratch:

[Elvain]

hehe, but your help is as far as I know also free :wink:

or not? :eek:

:go:

[Traveller]

hehe, but your help is as far as I know also free :wink:

or not? :eek:

:go:
Now that you mention it... :rolleyes: :wink:

Btw the maps are finished, based on the Dubrovnik charter:
Map 1 (http://www.history-simulations.net/other/karta-bulg-s.png)
Map 2 (http://www.history-simulations.net/other/karta-bulg-beta.png)
If you have troubles with reading the Cyrillic names of the regions, I'll write them here (numbered as on map 1):
- 1 - centre Targoviste (Търговище; on map 1 it's written "Kumans", on map 2 - "Wallachia")
- 2 - Varna (on map 2 - Karvuna, which IMO is the better one)
- 3 - Borui
- 4 - Odrin (aka Adrianople)
- 5 - Dimotika
- 6 - Krun (Крън; could also be written as Kran (just like Turnovo-Tarnovo), because the Latin alphabet has no sign for "ъ")
- 7 - Turnovo (including Sredets/Sredec on map 1)
- 8 - Bdin
- 9 - Branichevo
- 10 - Belgrad
- 11 - Skopie
- 12 - Prilep
- 13 - Devol
- 14 - Arbanassi land
Below is the Epir despoty, which at that time was a vassal of Tsar Ioan Assen II (after the battle of Klokotnitsa) with the centre Solun (Thessaloniki). Note that Wallachia/Kumania is also in a different colour!

[Elvain]

Great :go:

thanks...

so I will give you the latest stage of my map, at the moment it includes all catholic lands except Ireland, Scandinavia and Dalmatia. Wales and Bohemia will be further divided

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/2818/zape35lk.th.jpg (http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zape35lk.jpg)
PS: sorry that there are no names yet, but I will give them as soon as possible :wink:

[Elvain]

Scandinavia is added:
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/3660/zapebig516lf.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zapebig516lf.jpg)