Black Sea Studios and KoH patch - status

[cursingdirk]

The family tree seems no useless!
Isn't it ?

[Elvain]

it's not a familiy tree, it's hierarchy of titles which IMO should be included in the game in future (possibly some kind of it in the second patch, all of it in it's possible extensions... or KoH2)

[Mircoslavux]

it's not a familiy tree, it's hierarchy of titles which IMO should be included in the game in future (possibly some kind of it in the second patch, all of it in it's possible extensions... or KoH2)

nice job Elvain, but I do not know, whether you can make it so general, the hierarchy was very different according the country....and period of time..
but it is complex question...

[Anguille2]

Frujin,

I have one small request for the patch:

Please unlock the historical battles so they can be played as singleplayer too!

Thanks

[Elvain]

Well, I second that, Anguille :go:

Mirco: it is as general as possible and to reflect diferent situation in diferent parts of world I made variations: In Germany for example you go from Margrave to Emperor of Europe 2 ways:
Margrave - count - duke - archduke - king - emperor - emperor of Europe
or
Margrave - count - duke - king - emperor - emperor of Europe

These are not titles for knights! They are titles for rulers. When your state is a county you click "Claim your title" button in Royal Family window and you have only one option: go and become duke, what costs certain amount of Piety, Gold and possibly also books + it automaticaly increases your kingdom power, improves relations with surrounding states, except duchies (the same title you claimed) where your relations decrease

As Duke you have more ways: Archduke, Grand Duke or directly King. Archduke is the cheapest, King is the most expesive and makes angry all surrounding kings..

And you can't claim the title of Ultimate Emperor untill you are Emperor/Tzar/Pope/Caliph/Great Khan or maybe also Sultan

It has also other mechanisms but I think it's enough for now

[weaz]

Black sea can also do something less timeconsuming. To produce a good map editor with a lot of options which the fanbase can use to create mods / improvements. It would become a revival for the game.

[Richard]

Elvain I think you made a small error in the tittle tree. Doge was the name given to the elected ruler of Venice and I think all the other italian republics(Genoa, Toscana, Corsica, ect..) during Koh's time. So doge would be more closely related to the title of King as the elected doge acted pretty much like one.

And weren't all those states in Russia called principalities or something like that?

Anyways I would be more than happy if something like crusader king's system of titles was incorporated into Koh.

[Elvain]

Doge's authorities were quite limited. And when some doge founded a dynasty, their title was then Duke so in this case this hierarchy should be correct (well, not 100% but of course it's a compromise between simple generalization and accurancy)

Russian states were mostly principalities with prince/knez as the ruler (knez is russian name for prince AFAIK

[Richard]

I know their power was a bit limited, They didn't have the power a king would(after all it was a republic), but that doesn't mean they didn't act like one. They also ruled for life (although a few were forcibly removed from office)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge_of_Venice

Just saw this, according to the wikipedia "Doge, a rare but not unique Italian title derived from the Latin Dux, as the major Italian parallel Duce and the English Duke."
So a doge would me something like a duke without a liege, a free duke:scratch:.

The point I'm tryng to come to is that Counts were usually vassals to either a duke or king, they had to fallow a liege, while the doge was indipendent.

[Elvain]

We're getting a bit offtopic

You're right. But when Doge started own dynasty, and the state became something more in eyes of other dynasties, they usualy took a title duke, what made me put doge under duke in this hierarcy.

You are right that dukes were mostly vasals of someone else, but also dukes were kinda independent and acted like kings. Dukes of Milan are just an example

just keep in mind that this table is just general proposition

[Doge]

Black sea can also do something less timeconsuming. To produce a good map editor with a lot of options which the fanbase can use to create mods / improvements. It would become a revival for the game.

The Lord of the Rings modding community is always looking for a great game to mod. By giving them a map editor so they can make a map of Middle Earth and battle maps of various regions of ME, and by opening up more 'modable' options including AI logic, this game could have sold thousands of more copies and the ME:KoH would have given KoH free advertisement.

The makers of the Total War series know many people buy games so they can 1) mod the game or 2) play with the completed mods. With this knowledge, they deliberately design their games for the modding community. I do not own Rome Total War, but plan on buying it once the Middle Earth: Total War mod is completed for RTW. I am willing to purchase a game that is over two years old for the sole purpose of playing a mod. And I am not the only one out there like this, far from it.

I hope BSS (and Paradox) learned their lesson with this game. If they want more sales: offer more support, more often and above all allow the game to be modded as much as possible.

Creative Assembly made their campaign map 'modable'. Check out these images of the released beta: "The Fourth Age".

Dol Amroth (http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=edhellond2an9.png)

Mordor (http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kingdomvu5.jpg)

Gondor (http://img278.imageshack.us/my.php?image=osgilab9.png)

I wonder how many people came to these forums to find out about game play and mods. Once they found out that game play was not hard and KoH is not very 'modable', many were unwilling to put up $40+ for this game. The KoH demo is probably responsible for more than half of sales.

1) More support, 2) many modding options (including campaign map editor and battle map editor), and 3) a multiplayer for the campaign would have probably tripled or quadrupled sales. Any one of those would have increased sales on their own.

BSS, please learn your lesson with KoH. Gamers don't want to punish developers, we want to reward great developers with our money. We end up ignoring bad developers. BSS is not on my bad developer list because of how novel and great KoH truly is. Too bad the extra effort was not made sooner and with greater zeal for their customers. Better late than never, especially after putting us all on hold for about a year waiting for a new patch.

[sayyid]

when is this patch finally coming......

we are waiting for months and monts and months and months... How hard can it be to sign contracts and stuff?

[kevincompton]

mods are 95% of the time, gay. But hey, for that 5% of the time, I agree. The key is not making it tooooo modable, or you get well, a lord of the rings mod for instance. :cough oughGAYcough:

[Borsook]

The Lord of the Rings modding community is always looking for a great game to mod. By giving them a map editor so they can make a map of Middle Earth and battle maps of various regions of ME, and by opening up more 'modable' options including AI logic, this game could have sold thousands of more copies and the ME:KoH would have given KoH free advertisement.

The makers of the Total War series know many people buy games so they can 1) mod the game or 2) play with the completed mods. With this knowledge, they deliberately design their games for the modding community. I do not own Rome Total War, but plan on buying it once the Middle Earth: Total War mod is completed for RTW. I am willing to purchase a game that is over two years old for the sole purpose of playing a mod. And I am not the only one out there like this, far from it.

I hope BSS (and Paradox) learned their lesson with this game. If they want more sales: offer more support, more often and above all allow the game to be modded as much as possible.

Creative Assembly made their campaign map 'modable'. Check out these images of the released beta: "The Fourth Age".

Dol Amroth (http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=edhellond2an9.png)

Mordor (http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kingdomvu5.jpg)

Gondor (http://img278.imageshack.us/my.php?image=osgilab9.png)

I wonder how many people came to these forums to find out about game play and mods. Once they found out that game play was not hard and KoH is not very 'modable', many were unwilling to put up $40+ for this game. The KoH demo is probably responsible for more than half of sales.

1) More support, 2) many modding options (including campaign map editor and battle map editor), and 3) a multiplayer for the campaign would have probably tripled or quadrupled sales. Any one of those would have increased sales on their own.

BSS, please learn your lesson with KoH. Gamers don't want to punish developers, we want to reward great developers with our money. We end up ignoring bad developers. BSS is not on my bad developer list because of how novel and great KoH truly is. Too bad the extra effort was not made sooner and with greater zeal for their customers. Better late than never, especially after putting us all on hold for about a year waiting for a new patch.
You are right mods can play important role in game promotion. But you are wrong about RTW being any different than KOH. There was no campaign editor for RTW, fans made one. Some of the game's files were packed and again fans made the unpacker. There was a battle map editor with a lot of problems, but hey - there is an editor in KOH. The fact that RTW has more mods and of bigger scale than KOH probably results from 2 things - 1st: avarege gamers like dumbed down "strategies" with beautiful 3d graphics 2nd: RTW is 3rd game in the series so there was more time for a modding community to grow. Oh and RTW publisher made us wait around a year for the patch even though the game was full of bugs (like the save game system being broken). So no, KOH is not any worse....
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mods are 95% of the time, gay. But hey, for that 5% of the time, I agree. The key is not making it tooooo modable, or you get well, a lord of the rings mod for instance. :cough oughGAYcough:
Don't wanna be picky but don't you think that calling things you don't like "gay" is offensive? Also I don't see the problem with a "too modable game". If you do not like the mod - do not use it. Unless you dislike the sole fact that there exists something which is not to your liking.

[Doux]

Don't wanna be picky but don't you think that calling things you don't like "gay" is offensive? Also I don't see the problem with a "too modable game". If you do not like the mod - do not use it. Unless you dislike the sole fact that there exists something which is not to your liking.Gay: 2. Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry. 3. Bright or lively, especially in color: a gay, sunny room.

Of course, kevincompton meant that. Seriously, there cannot be people around who use other meanings of the word in a negative sense. That'd be outright offensively and mindless towards homosexuals.

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But on the impatient posters: be patient. Posting here won't speed up the process. The statement was that the patch will come and whether we will wait a year or less time is up to BSS. Of course, if the patch takes a year, most interest will have been lost, but I really don't think we will make a change by posting impatiently about when the patch will come. I'd say next year, February, is a reasonable finish.

[kevincompton]

My meaning is a common expression used in America to say something is lame or stupid.
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we should have had word on the patch weeks ago, accepting this lack of communication is of no use, doux. We are entitled to know whats going on.

[weaz]

And the most important, Modders spend months on their mod, for free !!!

It is free advertisement for KoH

[kevincompton]

Frujin, can we at least have some scrap of news before christmas? We are not in a rush to get the patch, just to know when it will be done or what will be in it.

[Borsook]

My meaning is a common expression used in America to say something is lame or stupid.
--
we should have had word on the patch weeks ago, accepting this lack of communication is of no use, doux. We are entitled to know whats going on.
I know it's common in US. Thankfully not in Europe, so maybe it would be good to bear that in mind. Also however common something is it doesn't change anything.

Do you really think we need someone to post "Nothing new to say" once in a while? I'm sure that when something new occurs the news will be posted ASAP. We waited a year for a patch surely a month more won't hurt...

[Frujin]

Hello People,

BSS is working with full speed on the patch. More news will come shortly. We are investigating the impact the patch will have on user created mods as well.