The people have spoken...

[Sir Turylon]

and Bush is the undisputed winner with 51% of popular vote and over 270 of the electoral college vote. :cheers:


GG.

Any Euro reaction would be appreciated (if it is kept nice)

Most important thing is Bin Laden did not sway our people to vote in his favor. Never threaten America with violence... it's like throwing a rock at a bear... it only gets them angrier at you. :cheers:

[Noldy]

If youd ask me if Bush ruled Amarica very well, id say no. But if youd ask me if Kerry would have done better, I say no. I get the idea that Kerry doesnt know exactly what he wants, and that he wouldnt do very right. The people have spoken well.

[Robbie47]

Any Euro reaction would be appreciated (if it is kept nice)


Sure, why not. Every people apparently gets what it deserves, so the USA gets Bush, who did a terrible job on the economy, who shifts more and more money from the poor to the rich and is slowly but surely cutting in on peoples rights and the principles of justice.
Who started an unjustified war, which by now has brought chaos and anarchy to the Iraqi people, instead of peace and democracy.
And who is using Bin Laden to improve his own position, who is scaring the American people with an outrageous home-defence system (does anyone really believe he is ever going to call of code blue or green) in order to get those votes, even from the ones who suffer most under his presidency.
But you wanted it this way, at least 51% ...

[Ledhead]

I think it's great that bush won!
Now we in Europe can be sure that we won't get pestered with US requests of help in Iraq.
Sad that he drags the christian religion in the mud though...
The muslim fundamentalist are just as narrowminded as Bushs evangelics. How surprised they will be when they'll see that they ended up in the same place after this life :hello:

[Alex Poff]

I think Noldy hit the nail on the head. For the American people, Bush stands up for what he believes in. Personally, I do not agree with him. I am against the "religious right" who currently govern America. Unfortunately, Senator Kerry was finally perceived (and perception is 99% of reality) as a "waffler". The pundits are correct this morning, saying that the Democrats must, for the next election, decide what they "want to be when they grow up." They really have to "take a stand" on many key issues that will differentiate themselves from the Republican party and give the people a true choice.

[Kuno of Gersenau]

I dislike George Bush, but to be honest I also have to say that I couldn't really imagine John Kerry as a president. I think most of the people who voted him, did this, because they hate Bush, and not because of Kerry's personality.

I only hope Bush will have more respect of the world in his next 4 years.

And who will come in 4 years? Schwarzenegger? :D

[William Blake]

The most amazing thing to me is that people vote exactly as they did last time. I mean no matter what happens or who is in charge people vote the same way. Those who were democrats, they are, those who were republicans still are, state by state, county by county they are practicaly the same.

And this is Bush (who can't talk, looks like retard, makes public mistakes and so on) and time of war, terror, lies, shmieze, economy depression - all the possible **** happend. And people didnt move their views a bit. Not like I hate Bush that much or value Kerry anyhow, but feels to me that all that "politics" just doesnt matter, because if you are "republican" you have one guy to vote for and if you are "democrat" you have another. No options, no thinking envolved.

Thats kinda sad.

[Cali Knight]

This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read
up on his Muslim passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)
Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt
throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the
Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

(Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?! God Bless!
This is a lie the real scriture is
[9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.


And Im happy Bush won.

[Alex Poff]

Well, in my opinion only, I believe that America is very much divided along religious lines. Call it whatever, family values, morality, etc., there are those in America who believe that it is either "their way or the highway", a kind of moral righteousness that now begins to border on religious fanatacism. Sadly, they seem to be obvlivious to the fact that it is exactly this type of thinking that has led them to have such a negative view of the muslim religion, because most of these right wing religious zealots believe that muslims are all fanatics, ready to wage jihad against westerners, unaware that it is only the "few bad apples" syndrome. Unfortunately, God, however you care to address him, has been the reason given or invocation for the most war and death throughout our mankinds' history, bar none. The religious right in America MUST learn that they cannot force their way of life down eveybody's throat. Secularism is the way to go, let people worship or not worship whomever or whatever they choose, as long as it hurts no one else.

[Alfard]

For the American people, Bush stands up for what he believes in.
What is that then?
A Crusader for God?
Well then it looks like the modern middle ages...

[Alex Poff]

No offense, but did you read the rest of my post? Yes, that is exactly what he and his voters believe, in my opinion.

[Cali Knight]

What is that then?
A Crusader for God?
Well then it looks like the modern middle ages...



I dont think hes on a Crusade for God , but rather against terrorism, or so he says.

[Alex Poff]

Hey, Cali Knight, that is extremely chilling, that quote and verse from the Koran. Makes you wonder, doesn't it........

[Alfard]

Yes, that is exactly what he and his voters believe, in my opinion.It's clear to me, thanks. :(

[Alex Poff]

I, too, am not happy about it.

[Stefan]

Well, in my opinion only, I believe that America is very much divided along religious lines. Call it whatever, family values, morality, etc., there are those in America who believe that it is either "their way or the highway", a kind of moral righteousness that now begins to border on religious fanatacism. Sadly, they seem to be obvlivious to the fact that it is exactly this type of thinking that has led them to have such a negative view of the muslim religion, because most of these right wing religious zealots believe that muslims are all fanatics, ready to wage jihad against westerners, unaware that it is only the "few bad apples" syndrome. Unfortunately, God, however you care to address him, has been the reason given or invocation for the most war and death throughout our mankinds' history, bar none. The religious right in America MUST learn that they cannot force their way of life down eveybody's throat. Secularism is the way to go, let people worship or not worship whomever or whatever they choose, as long as it hurts no one else.


If you study history you will notice that religion is usually just used as a cover up reason for war. Generally politics are the main motivation (eg the 30 years war)with religion simply being another factor.

[Alex Poff]

Call it a "cover up" if you wish, but, in the name of God, more people have died than I care to imagine.

[Cali Knight]

If you read the Christan Bible God demands the death of many people because of the sin they have commited example Soddom and Gomorrah, but after Jesus (the Son of God) died God doesn't need for humans to die for their own sins because Jesus was the ultimate sacrafice.

[William Blake]

A god punishing Jesus (part of god himself) to revoke humans sins before god himself. Its kinda.... I mean if he was angry why he made himself or part of himself suffer to make himself feel better?

Doesnt make any sense:)

Offtopic, sorry, just a thought

[Sir Turylon]

well.. thank you to the Euros that responded nicely... rest of you.. shame you remain so bitter.

Truth is.... There is no Fanatical religious right wing conspiracy to conquer the world.

This conspiracy has been forced down your throats by those who oppose one religion and accept others in a hypocritical way.

let's take a look at a few reasons why this conspiracy is false.

A. The basic foundation of Christianity is based on... free will. You choose to accept Christ, or you do not. If you do no accept Him, no Christian is going to kill you. This freedom of choice, or as we like to call it choice of lifestyle, is garunteed to all who live. God will not force Himself on you, you must accept Him.

B. Take a look at who is telling you the "right wing fanatics" are trying to force their faith on you. Take a few minutes if you wish. I can garuntee they are those who either; a) do not believe in God, or b) they do not believe a god exists. Secularism does not mean freedom of religion... it is the believe there can be no religion.... (no wait...) That is not entirely true. Any religion is okay except Christianity and Judaism. Why is this?

C. Christianity does not preach hatred. If you meet a professed Christian who hates muslims... he is living a lie.

If you wish to discuss this further.. PM... I do not regard myself an expert on Christian theology, but I do myself an expert on being a Christian... so I do know a thing or two about what "our agenda" is. lol.

@Poff
Modern crusades? Shall we discuss the modern crusade to remove God from society? How about the modern crusade to denie the existence of God? Would you like to discuss the modern crusade to turn America into nothing more than a European puppit? How about the modern crusade to redefine Godliness as evil and imorality as good?

Crusades. pfft. America is fighting to hold on to any resemblance of it's once glorious calling as a shining light on a hill. Since 2000, America's foundation has been re-exerting itself over the corruption of secularist philosophy and denial of our history.

America on a crusade. Yes. A crusade to preserve our heritage as "One nation under God." Not one nation under the rule of European influence.


@election

Kerry spent far too long trying to appease everyone. When you try that, you lose. He alienated many democrats with his left wing liberalism. When he tried to convey himself as a conservative... we conservatives just laughed at him.

Most important issues were.
1. Morals/character
2. Terrorism
3. Iraq
4. Economy

Kerry failed to force the economy to the top. It is apparent when this backfired about a month ago. He knew he was losing with the terrorism and moral issues so he tried to persuade people it was better to go back to a pre-9/11 mindset where jobs were the main issue. This backfired when Bin Laden came out, Al Zarqawi proclaimed his allegiance to UBL, and when a terrorist was caught with building plans of schools in the US.


@Cali Knight
yes, very true. God does not wish for anyone to perish. But, he gave us a free will to choose to accept Him or not. This is the great misconception of secularists and atheiests. Why do people die when you say God wants them to live?

@Alfrad

Do not listen to those who live by one set of rules and think others should live by different ones.

The war on terrorism is best described as this. It is a movement to spread freedom throughout the muslim world and thus help that great religion be able to preserve itself from the radical fanaticism which threatens it's foundation. A little reformation and revolution is good once and a while. Right Europe?


@William blake.
It is the hardest concept to understand for non-believers. (assuming you are one here.)

God did not "punish Himself." Man can never redemn himself from sin. In order for us to be saved Jesus, God's only Son, took the punishment for our sins upon Himself. This was the only way we can be redemned from man's sinful nature.

Best way to represent this is to look at Judaism and the sacrificial lamb. The Hebrews sacrificed a lamb to attoin for their sins. God knew that the blood of a lamb could never cover sin forever, so he planned a way of ultimate salvation from sin. When Christ was born, he had human flesh but His blood was incorrputed. Think of it as a Holy conception. (hard concept again to understand.) When Christ died on the cross he cried out. "Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?" God gave his only son as a sacrifice to attoin for our sins, much in the same way the Hebrews sacrificed a lamb to attoin for their sins. Christ was the ultimate lamb, for he was without sin. This is when the salvation of man was transfered to the blood of Christ. Hence why Christians believe salvation is through Christ, and Christ alone.

recap. the blood of a lamb, clean and undamaged, was used to attoin for sins by the Hebrews. This blood was not good enough to attoin for all sins, so God sent His only Son down here as a sacrifice. His blood was without sin for it was not of human origin. God forsaked His Son on the cross. (this is usually understood that God the Father removed Himself from His Son while He was on the cross...so the sacrifice could happen.) Through this perfect sacrifice salvation for all of mankind can be obtained if you accept Christ as savior. This salvation is not forced upon you, for God wants us to accept Him with our own free will.

understand?

This is the faith that Bush believes in, and so do I with about 30-40% of America.